Zone1 The term "Personal relationship with Jesus" is not in the Bible

[BS Filter]

Again, let's be specific. Painting with such a broad brush loses much in the translation.

Sprinkling babies. Baptism means submersion

 

[BS Filter]

No, you have no idea.

And you will REALLY be confused trying to find consistency btwn what I say and what the novus ordo folks like Meriweather say...

If you like confusion... go ahead and deal with the contradictions btwn those 2 entities, but

one belongs to the True Catholic religion and one does not

Oh, I think you're both confused. Lol. "True Catholic religion". That statement right there is very telling. Jesus isn't a religion.

 

[surada]

you novus ordo folks are nasty people

"You will know them by their fruits"

Do you have any fruits?

 

[Meriweather]

Forgiveness of sins. Healing on the Sabbath.

Catholics proclaim the forgiveness of sins, and they heal on the Sabbath. I still don't understand your complaint.

The religious hypocrites of today are just like the Pharisees.

Again, can we talk specifics? What practice has the Catholic Church customized that troubles you so? And why? The Catholic faith is for Catholics, not for your particular denomination. Since we don't care what you do, why do you care what we do? Again, let's be as specific as possible.

 

[BS Filter]

Catholics proclaim the forgiveness of sins, and they heal on the Sabbath. I still don't understand your complaint.

Again, can we talk specifics? What practice has the Catholic Church customized that troubles you so? And why? The Catholic faith is for Catholics, not for your particular denomination. Since we don't care what you do, why do you care what we do? Again, let's be as specific as possible.

Why sprinkle babies, pray to Mary, believe the bread and wine turn magically into the flesh and blood of Jesus and if they fall to the ground it's a sin, etc, etc. Strange religious stuff, kinda like occultism.

 

[Meriweather]

Sprinkling babies. Baptism means submersion

Catholics do not sprinkle babies. The early Christian Church had two forms of baptism--one was submersion, and one was pouring water (which is the one we use for babies). Are you aware that one of the first Christian murals featuring Baptism includes pouring water using a seashell?

Does it harm you or what your own beliefs are that Catholics follow all (not just one) procedures done in Apostolic times? Baptism, no matter how it is done, is the visible sign of an invisible reality. It is that invisible reality that is the tradition--not the symbols used.

 

[BS Filter]

Catholics do not sprinkle babies. The early Christian Church had two forms of baptism--one was submersion, and one was pouring water (which is the one we use for babies). Are you aware that one of the first Christian murals featuring Baptism includes pouring water using a seashell?

Does it harm you or what your own beliefs are that Catholics follow all (not just one) procedures done in Apostolic times? Baptism, no matter how it is done, is the visible sign of an invisible reality. It is that invisible reality that is the tradition--not the symbols used.

"Tradition". So you believe a mural has the same authority as Scripture.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Forgiveness of sins. Healing on the Sabbath. Everything He did angered the Pharisees. Why do you think they killed him? Nothing has really changed. The religious hypocrites of today are just like the Pharisees.

better to be a Christian hypocrite than a non-Christian. Do you attack them or just fellow Christians?

one thing is: everyone is a hypocrite. It is just a matter of degrees.

Then there are the non-Christians who have the gall to constantly accuse Christians of not living up to their principles, even to the point of hair-splitting... when they themselves don't even bother trying to live up to any above-human-nature (or supernatural) principles..

 

[notmyfault2020]

Oh, I think you're both confused. Lol. "True Catholic religion". That statement right there is very telling. Jesus isn't a religion.

hair splitting

you protestants always engage in hair splitting. That's because you cannot respond to the TRUE Catholic issues/practices... etc. You don't even know what they are. You don't seem to accept losing political debates but you don't care if you lose "religious" ones by not knowing the topic

 

[surada]

better to be a Christian hypocrite than a non-Christian. Do you attack them or just fellow Christians?

one thing is: everyone is a hypocrite. It is just a matter of degrees.

Then there are the non-Christians who have the gall to constantly accuse Christians of not living up to their principles, even to the point of hair-splitting... when they themselves don't even bother trying to live up to any above-human-nature (or supernatural) principles..

What is a supernatural principle?

 

[Meriweather]

Why pray to Mary

Why does it bother you so much we ask Mary to join in a prayer? At times we ask the same of all the angels and Saints to join us in praying to God. Since we believe both the living and dead make up the living Body of Christ, asking Mary, angels, Saints to join in our prayer is like asking a living friend, colleague, or family member to join us in prayer.

You might consider whether you are making up your own tradition about what is right and proper for a prayer? You shalt not do this, you shalt not do that? It appears Catholics are more open about prayer than perhaps the limited way of another Christian sect(s)? Have you thought about that perspective?

believe the bread and wine turn magically into the flesh and blood of Jesus and if they fall to the ground it's a sin,

There is no magic involved. John's Gospel paints a picture over and over again about Christ being the invisible reality. In ancient times, there was a strong belief that everything on earth, everything we make is kind of like a shadowy version of God's reality.

The Eucharist, like Baptism, are the visible signs of the invisible reality--and we firmly believe Jesus is that reality, visible or not. As he promised, Jesus feeds and nourishes us with his own body, blood, and divinity--but not the shadowy earthly version, but with the heavenly reality.

It is not a sin if the Eucharist should fall to the ground. As the Eucharist is a holy reality, it is treated with respect due that holy reality.

 

[Meriweather]

"Tradition". So you believe a mural has the same authority as Scripture.

The mural is a depiction of baptism in the early days of Christianity, a baptism completed before written scripture was completed.

Remember, you can still hold your belief that they did it all wrong, but now, thanks to written scripture, you are doing it correctly.

Catholics, on the other hand, can still respect the ways of the Apostles and Christians who lived in Apostolic times.

 

[BS Filter]

better to be a Christian hypocrite than a non-Christian. Do you attack them or just fellow Christians?

one thing is: everyone is a hypocrite. It is just a matter of degrees.

Then there are the non-Christians who have the gall to constantly accuse Christians of not living up to their principles, even to the point of hair-splitting... when they themselves don't even bother trying to live up to any above-human-nature (or supernatural) principles..

I'm free of all religious rites and traditions. I believe Jesus is my Savior and confess my sins to Him when I mess up. That's pretty much it as far as I'm concerned. 1 John.

 

[BS Filter]

Why does it bother you so much we ask Mary to join in a prayer? At times we ask the same of all the angels and Saints to join us in praying to God. Since we believe both the living and dead make up the living Body of Christ, asking Mary, angels, Saints to join in our prayer is like asking a living friend, colleague, or family member to join us in prayer.

You might consider whether you are making up your own tradition about what is right and proper for a prayer? You shalt not do this, you shalt not do that? It appears Catholics are more open about prayer than perhaps the limited way of another Christian sect(s)? Have you thought about that perspective?


There is no magic involved. John's Gospel paints a picture over and over again about Christ being the invisible reality. In ancient times, there was a strong belief that everything on earth, everything we make is kind of like a shadowy version of God's reality.

The Eucharist, like Baptism, are the visible signs of the invisible reality--and we firmly believe Jesus is that reality, visible or not. As he promised, Jesus feeds and nourishes us with his own body, blood, and divinity--but not the shadowy earthly version, but with the heavenly reality.

It is not a sin if the Eucharist should fall to the ground. As the Eucharist is a holy reality, it is treated with respect due that holy reality.

You didn't use one Scripture to back up your beliefs.

 

[Meriweather]

You didn't use one Scripture to back up your beliefs.

Previously, I mentioned it twice. It appears the same scripture we read provide different perspectives. That is a benefit of traditions handed to us from Apostolic times.

From using the Biblical "When two are more..." there have been amazing results that came from asking others to pray with me. Prayer is powerful, my own and the prayers of others. That is my experience. However, as I am sure you will point out, I am not in the Bible. "When two or more..." is.

 

[Meriweather]

You didn't use one Scripture to back up your beliefs.

A question for you: Do you use experiences to back your faith beliefs?

 

[BS Filter]

Previously, I mentioned it twice. It appears the same scripture we read provide different perspectives. That is a benefit of traditions handed to us from Apostolic times.

From using the Biblical "When two are more..." there have been amazing results that came from asking others to pray with me. Prayer is powerful, my own and the prayers of others. That is my experience. However, as I am sure you will point out, I am not in the Bible. "When two or more..." is.

Provide me a Scripture where someone prayed along with someone in Heaven. I believe the Scripture when two or more are gathered in my name to mean two or more persons living on Earth.

 

[BS Filter]

A question for you: Do you use experiences to back your faith beliefs?

Nope. Only Scripture. What did Jesus use when tempted by the devil? Scripture and experience or only Scripture?

 

[Meriweather]

Provide me a Scripture where someone prayed along with someone in Heaven. I believe the Scripture when two or more are gathered in my name to mean two or more persons living on Earth.

Remember Jesus speaking with Moses and Elijah (Transfiguration)? The account does not reveal what was being said, only that God was there, too, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

Again, many have had tremendous experiences when asking those who have passed on to pray with them. I have as well.

 

[Meriweather]

Nope. Only Scripture. What did Jesus use when tempted by the devil? Scripture and experience or only Scripture?

Satan was arguing scripture with Jesus. Jesus used scripture to respond. Remember, one of the criticisms against Jesus was that he taught through his own authority, not by the authority of others. (In other words he didn't always use scripture.)