Zone1 The term "Personal relationship with Jesus" is not in the Bible

[Meriweather]

Do you believe that Mary was sinless?

Based on the Bible, yes. She was graced. (Meaning grace given by God).

 

[hadit]

Asked and answered.

Not really. You went on about generic prayers, praying for the world, etc., but that's not what I'm referring to and you know it. I have had Catholics in my adult Sunday School class state that they believe Mary can help them get their prayer heard, and you've not given me any reason to think you believe differently. Mary is not divine so she cannot possibly keep track of the millions of requests she gets on a daily basis, so why pray to her when your odds of being heard are vanishingly small?

 

[hadit]

Based on the Bible, yes. She was graced. (Meaning grace given by God).

No, she was blessed by God, certainly, because she was the woman through whom Yeshua was given. She was not sinless, however, based on the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that there was only one who was ever sinless, and the was Christ Himself. We have all sinned and fallen short, there is none righteous, and that includes Mary.

You guys give Mary way too much credit and power that she doesn't have.

Do you also think she remained a virgin her entire life, and if so, why, from the Scriptures?

 

[Meriweather]

Mary is not divine so she cannot possibly keep track of the millions of requests she gets on a daily basis, so why pray to her when your odds of being heard are vanishingly small?

Argue for limitations and you get to keep them. Obviously, those with faith in prayer are beyond those limitations. There are testimonies that speak of Mary's intercessions.

As you have no faith in this, I take it you are well satisfied with the boundaries you have set for yourself. I've gone beyond those boundaries with family and best friend, and no one has forbidden me or charged me with trespassing to date.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you also think she remained a virgin her entire life, and if so, why, from the Scriptures?

According to both scripture and Apostolic tradition, Mary remained a virgin. Frankly, I don't see why people care whether she was or she wasn't. Either way, I personally see it as Too Much Information and no one's business.

 

[hadit]

According to both scripture and Apostolic tradition, Mary remained a virgin. Frankly, I don't see why people care whether she was or she wasn't. Either way, I personally see it as Too Much Information and no one's business.

There is no Scripture that states she remained a virgin. In fact, they state that she had multiple children other than Yeshua. They were not all virgin births.

My point is that Catholics put stuff on top of the Scriptures that even contradict what Scripture says but have no qualms believing them.

 

[hadit]

Argue for limitations and you get to keep them. Obviously, those with faith in prayer are beyond those limitations. There are testimonies that speak of Mary's intercessions.

As you have no faith in this, I take it you are well satisfied with the boundaries you have set for yourself. I've gone beyond those boundaries with family and best friend, and no one has forbidden me or charged me with trespassing to date.

IOW, you maintain that she is not only not divine, but somehow can handle millions of prayer requests on a daily basis. You don't see the contradiction there?

 

[Meriweather]

There is no Scripture that states she remained a virgin. In fact, they state that she had multiple children other than Yeshua. They were not all virgin births.

If you are interested, you could do more in depth study or reading--which was already provided in this thread. Or, you can remain satisfied with your own conclusions.

 

[Meriweather]

My point is that Catholics put stuff on top of the Scriptures that even contradict what Scripture says but have no qualms believing them.

Apostolic Tradition came before scripture. Even so, Catholics are close to both Apostolic Tradition and Canonized Scripture. Other denominations choose not to be bothered with either tradition or some of the canonized scriptures Catholics are using since they were in use when Jesus was alive.

A lot to embrace, I know, which is probably why some non-Catholic denominations chose to lose part of it. Nothing wrong with that, just like their is nothing wrong with not getting doctorates in all available university studies.

 

[Meriweather]

IOW, you maintain that she is not only not divine, but somehow can handle millions of prayer requests on a daily basis. You don't see the contradiction there?

If I can manage to pray for the congregation--not to mention the world--I have no reason to doubt that Mary can handle her own prayers even more efficiently.

 

[ding]

That makes a lie out of Scripture. Ask me how.

No thanks. I doubt we would agree on much when it comes to interpreting scripture. If you want to believe the Ark of the covenant that housed the Word was flawed, feel free to do so. But you should consider treading lightly when disparaging the mother of Christ. I hear he was partial to her.

 

[ding]

Mary is not divine so she cannot possibly keep track of the millions of requests she gets on a daily basis, so why pray to her when your odds of being heard are vanishingly small?

You know this how? When were you ever a saint? You think time exists like it does here. I don't. God supplies reality equally to every part of the universe — all events at all times and places. Therefore, God experiences what we call time all at once. So technically the "answers" to our prayers are waiting in time for the prayer to arrive.

Prayer is about changing the fabric of our identity which brings us closer to God which is why there is a set structure to prayer. Rather than prayer being about what God can do for us, prayer should be about what God wants us to do. If you pray for courage, God isn't going to give you courage, he's going to put you in situations that develop courage. Which he already knew before you prayed or asked Mary to pray for you.

 

[ding]

Do you believe that Mary was sinless?

Yes, she was favored and the Lord was with her. Luke 1:28

 

[ding]

There is no Scripture that states she remained a virgin.

There is no scripture that says she wasn't.

 

[ding]

In fact, they state that she had multiple children other than Yeshua. They were not all virgin births.

Incorrect. If Mary had other sons Jesus would not have passed the responsibility for caring for her to his disciple John.

“Woman, behold, your son.” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. John 19:26-27

Your mistake is a mistake of translation as explained in great detail in this link.

Did Jesus have "blood" brothers and sisters? - Catholic Straight Answers

This question arises because the gospels refer to the “brothers” and “sisters” of our Lord. In the New American Bible’s English translation of the Gospel of St. Mark, we do indeed read about the crowd asking, “Isn’t this the carpenter, … Continued

catholicstraightanswers.com

 

[hadit]

No thanks. I doubt we would agree on much when it comes to interpreting scripture. If you want to believe the Ark of the covenant that housed the Word was flawed, feel free to do so. But you should consider treading lightly when disparaging the mother of Christ. I hear he was partial to her.

I'm just going by what the Scriptures say, and they say we have all sinned, except for Christ Himself.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm just going by what the Scriptures say, and they say we have all sinned, except for Christ Himself.

Here is a thought...he was a human baby. Who better to teach someone with a human nature not to sin than a mother who was preserved from sin.

 

[hadit]

Here is a thought...he was a human baby. Who better to teach someone with a human nature not to sin than a mother who was preserved from sin.

That's a supposition not found in Scripture.

 

[Meriweather]

That's a supposition not found in Scripture.

Not the way you read it.

Seriously. Scripture tells us that Mary was favored, filled with grace. It notes she was saved by God. Paul never knew Mary--and the Gospels appear to be relating a different story.

Why are you so bent on Mary being a sinner and having lots of children? What's in it for you? We have several verses in the Gospels that do not seem to go along with one line in a letter from Paul. You clutch onto that verse from Paul and ignore other Gospel statements. Why?

 

[hadit]

Not the way you read it.

Seriously. Scripture tells us that Mary was favored, filled with grace. It notes she was saved by God. Paul never knew Mary--and the Gospels appear to be relating a different story.

Why are you so bent on Mary being a sinner and having lots of children? What's in it for you? We have several verses in the Gospels that do not seem to go along with one line in a letter from Paul. You clutch onto that verse from Paul and ignore other Gospel statements. Why?

Because you all but worship her.