The tell-tale signs of a coming nightmare: Social security is just the beginning

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Talismen, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Talismen
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    Talismen Lady Templar & Kafir

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    At the time of this writing, I am exactly 1 week into my 43rd year on this earth. And because I was raised by my parents, my maternal grandmother and great-grand parents, I knew 20 years ago that the possibility of social security not being there for me at retirement, was quite high. They saw it coming back then, and made sure they didn't blow sunshine up my backside, with regards to what was to come.

    Today, we learned just how high that possibility really is:
    Link: Social Security fund slides into permanent deficit
    (snip)
    (Read the rest at the link above....)

    Keep in mind, FDR (remember he was liberal too) never intended for the SS program to look as it does today, nor did he ever intend for SS to be the only means of retirement income for ANY worker in this country. Check your history, and you'll find that out fast.

    Social Security is the "canary" in the economic "coal mine". It's been withering away for more than a few decades, and now, is finally at the point of no return without massive intervention and modification.

    Why? Many reasons, not the least of which is the sustained high unemployement numbers, and the fact that more people are "sucking" from the government "teet", rather than making their own way in the world.

    So, how do we fix it? Raise the retirement age? Maybe, but, there are those of us who are about 20yrs away from retirement at the current age limit, who'd love to see this not happen.

    Ok so....What else? How about offering incentives for folks who are over a certain income level NOT to take their SS funds? Of course, that would mean that a change would have to be made to the law which allows folks to opt-out of the existing mandatory participation/receipt of those funds.

    Ahh but....So much needs to be done with the budget, it can become quite overwhelming when one thinks about it.
    I'll tell you who has a good start on just what needs to be done to the budget....Rand Paul.
    See here:

    Link: A detailed look at the Rand Paul spending bill
    (snip)
    Read the rest at the 2nd link above....

    Associated link:
    http://www.randpaul2010.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Overview-500-billion-cuts-2.pdf


    Now, does this have a snow ball's chance in hell of passing, even on a partial level?
    Prolly not. But damn...He ain't foolin'! Good on him!

    How's about a Paul/Christie ticket in 2012? WOOHOO! :clap2:
     
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  2. MikeK
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    MikeK Gold Member

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    The health of the Social Security program exists in proportion to the health of the Economy in general. This is not the first time the program has dragged its feet and it won't be the last. But to perceive these occasional bumps in the road as death knells is to succumb to the kind of paranoia which is being promoted by fanatical Libertarians and by corporatist propagandists whose ambitious agenda is to turn the gold-mine, which Social Security is, over to the Wall Street gamblers who are responsible for the present economic crisis.

    Focus on the last sentence in that paragraph and don't assume it to be a false promise. Keep in mind that the only way Social Security will fail is if the entire federal government fails, in which case Social Security's failure will be the least of our problems.

    Again, the U.S. Economy has just undergone a major assault by the Bush Administration. The downturn has put millions of Americans out of work, which means serious reductions in FICA contributions. But the tide appears to be turning so the situation will improve. If it doesn't then certain steps will need to be taken to compensate for the loss. But by no means will the government allow the Social Security program to fail.

    That is true. One thing FDR did not envision was SSI, which in factual reality is not Social Security at all but has simply been placed in that category because of its general nature. And Social Security was not intended to do more than avoid the kind of absolute destitution that occurred throughout the Great Depression. Its purpose is to ensure access to the basic necessities of life or to supplement what otherwise would be inadequate private pensions.

    Those individuals need to be reminded that actuarial life expectancy is considerably longer than it was when Social Security was implemented in 1935 and asked if given the option would they prefer to have their lives shortened rather than their eligibility age increased. There is nothing unfair or unreasonable about a proportionate adjustment to the eligibility age.

    Social Security is essentially an insurance program and there should be a means test to disqualify those whose assets and incomes are such that they have no practical need to collect from the program.

    In my own situation, if my monthly Social Security payment were reduced by $100 I really wouldn't miss it. And there are many who wouldn't miss a $500 reduction -- or complete elimination of payment. So if need be a means test could be applied to ensure that those who do need the the full Social Security supplement would receive it.

    Gee. I wonder. Is it possible that you are a Libertarian?? :eusa_angel:
     
  3. Talismen
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    Talismen Lady Templar & Kafir

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    "gold-mine"????

    Really?

    As noted, that "gold-mine" was NEVER meant to be the source of one's retirement, in total.
    It was meant to provide for "basic necessities". How anyone can perceive it as a "gold-mine", or 'market' it to gullible American citizens as a "gold-mine" for their golden years, is beyond me.

    Further, those "bumps" referred to are coming hard and fast and more frequently as the years tick by. Why is that? Why would a program that is ONLY supposed to provide "basic necessities" (something very simple), be in the red this frequently, this fast since it's inception?

    Even further, you've assumed that I'm all for turning the program over to Wall Street.
    Wrong. I'm for turning it over to the people who are contributing, whether they want to or not, to the program. The funds are taken from them, out of their earnings, without their consent. This is a constitutional republic, and a free society, and those two things mean that people should be able to control the funding of their own retirements with the money that is basically stolen from them every time the eagle shits.

    If someone wants to sinnk their funds into Wall Street...So be it. If they know what they are doing, they'll do a WAY better job than government is doing. It would also force people to actually THINK about their senior years, and their retirement, instead of sitting back on their ass and assuming, incorrectly, that SS will be enough to "get by on" in their later years.

    And there's the money line....Big bad ol' BOOOOOSH did it! No one else. Never ever, no one else. :lol:
    If you're not "alert" enough to understand that this problem was caused by BOTH parties, over years and years....this is going to turn into a pissing contest, real fast.

    Go ring out, jr....You're done.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  4. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    The Social Security trust fund is just fine.

    Remain calm...All is well.
     
  5. william the wie
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    william the wie Gold Member

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    At a minimum Social Security and Medicare eligibility needs to be indexed to life expectancy more or less immediately.
     
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  6. pinqy
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    pinqy Gold Member

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    Well, one thing about that budget...he's eliminated all statistical agencies and anyone capable of analyzing the economy, so no one would know how bad things are.
     
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  7. Mini 14
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    Mini 14 Senior Member

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    I've never let SS enter the equation of my retirement. If there is anything there when I'm done (which I highly doubt), I'll spend it on gin and hookers, but I'm not holding my breath.

    I say let it die, because the only way to save it is to charge us far more in taxes/cuts/benefits than what we will receive when our day comes.

    Anyone thinking it is magically going to get fixed, without it coming directly out of your paycheck NOW, is only fooling themselves. The money has to come from somewhere, and "somewhere" ALWAYS means the taxpayer.

    It ain't worth it.

    Let it die.
     
  8. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    How does increasing unemployment help anyone? Cutting the federal government sounds good but for two usually overlooked facts.
    1. Cuts require cutting jobs, people will lose their jobs at a time of high unemployment;
    2. The unemployed will not/can not make their mortgage payments/rent; car payments, go to movies, out to dinner. In other words stimulate the economy.

    Cuts must be reasonable not emotional; that is my greatest criticism of the tea party mentality - simple solutions to complex problems.

    Some ideas which may help but are politically difficult:

    A. Temorarily add a 5% sur tax on income across the board dedicated to debt relief;
    B. Raise the Social Security payroll tax 10-fold, to $1,000,000; include earned income and bonus money; all monies collected to be invested safely in well regulated instruments;
    C. Add .50 cents/gallon to the gas tax for all non-commercial vehicles in areas where public transportation is available. Income to be used to subsidized and expand public transportaton;
    D. Add solar energy roofing to all public buildings in sun belts;
    E. Begin the process of building new generation nuclear power plants;
    F. Replace the Federal (& State, Local) government fleets by attrition to hybid and electric vehicles;
    G. Regulate, regulate and regulate - laws must be enforced. Medicare fraud must be punished by a loss of liberty (Jail, Prison) not finds or warnings;
    I. Citziens United v. FEC must be overturned; campaign finance reform must become a reality and false, misleading, slanderous and libelous advertising must not be protected from civil and or criminal penalty.
     
  9. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Social security is in trouble becauuse the US economy is in trouble.

    The US economy is in trouble because the upper classes of this nation have abandoned the social contract that included the lower classes.

    FREE TRADE is one example of that betrayal of the social contract.

    Continuing to advance the supply side (feeding the rich at the expense of the working classes) still another example of this change in overall social contracting policy.

    The social security problem is but a subset of the overall problem this society is facing
     
  10. chikenwing
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    chikenwing Guest

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    Agreed!! I would gladly give up the 10s of thousands we have already paid in,to not have to pay 10s of thousands more,into what is surly a very stupid and unlikely to return much if anything investment.

    The feds have proven themselves to be incompetent in matters of money management,this can't be denied by anyone with a rational mind.
     

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