The Straight Poop on Being Gay

[OCA]

Alot of these things are just that, theories and suppositions. There needs to be a gene found for homosexuality. Until that point it is a choice and we all know the difference between right and wrong I assume.

Look homosexual activist groups have been funding research for decades now to try and find this definitive genetic link, it isn't there, it doesn't exist, IMO how can one think otherwise with the evidence provided.

I believe that homosexuality is a combination of choice and environmental influences. I also believe that we as humans are animals and born with the inate urge to find a mate and reproduce the only difference for us is that we have the ability to reason and the ability for critical thinking. This is my argument as to why I think its a choice.

I'll probably be castigated for "religious" reasons when my reasons are based purely on biology.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by OCA
Alot of these things are just that, theories and suppositions. There needs to be a gene found for homosexuality. Until that point it is a choice and we all know the difference between right and wrong I assume.

Look homosexual activist groups have been funding research for decades now to try and find this definitive genetic link, it isn't there, it doesn't exist, IMO how can one think otherwise with the evidence provided.

I believe that homosexuality is a combination of choice and environmental influences. I also believe that we as humans are animals and born with the inate urge to find a mate and reproduce the only difference for us is that we have the ability to reason and the ability for critical thinking. This is my argument as to why I think its a choice.

I'll probably be castigated for "religious" reasons when my reasons are based purely on biology.

Not by me.

I love to point out we would all be extinct if homosexuality was RIGHT.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Don't worry, I have no preconcieved intention of going down that road.

Like bush's wag the dog in Iraq. I guess you're one neocon who learned his lesson.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Like bush's wag the dog in Iraq. I guess you're one neocon who learned his lesson.

I am not sure which lesson we are referring to, but I just don't see the need to quote scripture out of context.

We are talking about the effects or causes for a behavior. The quoting of scripture on whether it should be allowed or not doesn't serve purpose here. -Unless someone wants to bring it up.

I think the issue stands well on its own.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Alot of these things are just that, theories and suppositions. There needs to be a gene found for homosexuality. Until that point it is a choice and we all know the difference between right and wrong I assume.



Look homosexual activist groups have been funding research for decades now to try and find this definitive genetic link, it isn't there, it doesn't exist, IMO how can one think otherwise with the evidence provided.

It may or may not be genetic. But it nearly conclusively is developmental, biologically speaking. It's like a baby born damaged to crack, a crack baby. That baby has no genetic disorder, but it's brain is irreparably changed from the interaction with crack. Are the behavioral abnormalities resulting from that damage "choices" the crack baby is making?

I believe that homosexuality is a combination of choice and environmental influences. I also believe that we as humans are animals and born with the inate urge to find a mate and reproduce the only difference for us is that we have the ability to reason and the ability for critical thinking. This is my argument as to why I think its a choice.

Feel free to discount all evidence to the contrary.

I'll probably be castigated for "religious" reasons when my reasons are based purely on biology.

You're biologically based reasoning is simplistic and wrong. That's the real nature of your castigation.

Oh yeah, but you're also big on affirmative action. I forgot you already have two screws loose.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I am not sure which lesson we are referring to, but I just don't see the need to quote scripture out of context.

We are talking about the effects or causes for a behavior. The quoting of scripture on whether it should be allowed or not doesn't serve purpose here. -Unless someone wants to bring it up.

I think the issue stands well on its own.

I don't know what the hell I meant anymore. It seemed funny at the time? Wag the dog? I dunno anymore!

Yes, I agree 100% with you conception of the progression and utility of the thread.

 

[Aquarian]

ok, putting the intellectual debate aside:

sex is fun. That's why both straight and gay people engage in it regardless of chance for procreation.

assuming consensual sex between adults, NO ONE has any right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body.

the catholic church holds that masturbation is a sin, I'll be damned if I'll listen to theories of sexual propriety from an organization that can believe something so bizaare.

Heinlien had a good definition of sin in one of his books:

"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other 'sins' are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful - just stupid)."

It's fine if you choose to live your life by any of the various religions extant, but don't try and force them on me.

I could go straight and marry a woman and live happily ever after. I could also pretend that I agree with the racists, whichever politician is in power, with whatever religion, and hide my true convictions, but that is the way of the weasel. the way of the lion is to stand up and tell the world what you really think. It's not the easiest path to be sure, particularly when your beliefs are unpopular, but it's the only possible path for a being endowed with integrity.

but, you say, you silly faggot you'll get the aids and die!! Only if I engage in unsafe sex, which is true also of straight folks. even before aids there were risks for anyone engaging in sex of various diseases like syphillis, herpes, ghonnorhea etc. thank goodness that did not discourage people from having sex at all as that would have ended the tenure of our species rather prematurely. thank goodness we're not all homosexual either as that's a dead end but to think that a percentage of the population engaging in non procreative sex threatens the survival of the species is ludicrous. In fact it's even been posited that nature itself encourages a homosexuality as a population control akin to dr malthus's theories regarding war, pestilence and famine. beats me if that is true or not. (just saw rwa's comment correlating it to the prenatal stress syndrome described above, I was lacking a mechanism before, now more inclined to believe that it could be a population check)

/rant off

 

[rtwngAvngr]

In defense of the religous view, I must say that whether gay or straight, being too obsessed with all the sins of the flesh will only lead to misery. Addictions, health problems, calloused genitalia. Sometimes it ain't pretty. Not that I don't enjoy a romp now and again!

 

[OCA]

Feel free to discount all evidence to the contrary.


Here he goes again, what evidence to the contrary and how is a homosexual developed during gestation like a crack baby? This evidence doesn't exist, definitive evidence, unrefutable evidence but please feel free to try and discount it as we all know only what you think is realistic.

So are conservatives now supposed to be apologists for bad lifestyle choices?

 

[NewGuy]

ok, putting the intellectual debate aside:

You are right, you did.

Heinlien had a good definition of sin in one of his books:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other 'sins' are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful - just stupid)."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It's fine if you choose to live your life by any of the various religions extant, but don't try and force them on me.

Fine, know that you go by the laws of MAN, not God. This does not invalidate or disprove God's will, but casts it aside.

the way of the lion is to stand up and tell the world what you really think. It's not the easiest path to be sure, particularly when your beliefs are unpopular, but it's the only possible path for a being endowed with integrity.

No, integrity:
Main Entry: in·teg·ri·ty
Pronunciation: in-'te-gr&-tE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English integrite, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French integrité, from Latin integritat-, integritas, from integr-, integer entire
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : INCORRUPTIBILITY
2 : an unimpaired condition : SOUNDNESS
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : COMPLETENESS
synonym see HONESTY

What you have mistaken for integrity is ego. -Or the fulfilment of. This is a sin by Biblical standards alone. It is also unfair to others to put yourself at the focus of attention in front of others casting aside their choices for a civilized society when you are outnumbered.

Not only is your act a lack of integrity, but so is your promotion of it and your egotism.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Feel free to discount all evidence to the contrary.


Here he goes again, what evidence to the contrary and how is a homosexual developed during gestation like a crack baby? This evidence doesn't exist, definitive evidence, unrefutable evidence but please feel free to try and discount it as we all know only what you think is realistic.

So are conservatives now supposed to be apologists for bad lifestyle choices?

Did you read the articles. There are more out there. just google something like "role of hormones on fetal brain development and effects on homosexual choice" and start reading.

Listen close: Hormone levels in the blood of the baby, which can be from both himself or his mother, effect how the brain develops. Crack effects how the brain develops. I'm beginning to think you have some developmental issues yourself.:clap1:

I'm not saying anyone's supposed to be anything. I'm saying think about sin and a developmental problem and if they're really the same. I think they're not.

You also need to reconsider your stance on affirmative action. The fact that you consider racial discrimination to be a valuable policy tool sickens me.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Did you read the articles. There are more out there. just google something like "role of hormones on fetal brain development and effects on homosexual choice" and start reading.

I'm saying think about sin and a developmental problem and if they're really the same.

I think they're not.

Let me ask you this:

If a father does drugs and contaminates his body, has offspring who are unable to take care of themselves BECAUSE of the drugs, who pays the price?

The father did wrong, and the offspring pays the price. It isn't fair, but every bad behavior has a price to pay. If you want to reword it, "Every sin has a price to pay."

As such, if a father does wrong by sinning or doing drugs, or anything else causing a mutation, there is STILL sin passed to offspring. This is Biblical, this is scientific with the proven issue of birth defects.

Sexuality has also been proven to change by environmental exposure and cause the orientation to change. Why? -A lot of it is chemical just as drugs are a chemical addiction. This DOES pass into offspring to some degree.

You ask for justification of behavior passed by generation?

I give you Biblical and scientific understanding that behavior can and does often cause mutagenetic changes and pass them into offspring.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Let me ask you this:

If a father does drugs and contaminates his body, has offspring who are unable to take care of themselves BECAUSE of the drugs, who pays the price?

The father did wrong, and the offspring pays the price. It isn't fair, but every bad behavior has a price to pay. If you want to reword it, "Every sin has a price to pay."

As such, if a father does wrong by sinning or doing drugs, or anything else causing a mutation, there is STILL sin passed to offspring. This is Biblical, this is scientific with the proven issue of birth defects.

Sexuality has also been proven to change by environmental exposure and cause the orientation to change. Why? -A lot of it is chemical just as drugs are a chemical addiction. This DOES pass into offspring to some degree.

You ask for justification of behavior passed by generation?

I give you Biblical and scientific understanding that behavior can and does often cause mutagenetic changes and pass them into offspring.

I agree with all that. What's that have to do with being gay? Are you saying that having sex with another man will change your genetic structure in a way that also couldn't happen between a heterosexual couple? (I know I have to cover all bases with you.)

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I agree with all that. What's that have to do with being gay? Are you saying that having sex with another man will change your genetic structure in a way that also couldn't happen between a heterosexual couple? (I know I have to cover all bases with you.)

It illustrates that choices, if believed enough cause practices. Some practices create chemical addictions and genetic changes toward that orientation. If one chooses to become homosexual, or has some sexual behavior causing a chemical addiction which may throw a hormonal imbalance into play or change genetic pre-disposition, offspring can be affected.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy


It illustrates that choices, if believed enough cause practices. Some practices create chemical addictions and genetic changes toward that orientation. If one chooses to become homosexual, or has some sexual behavior causing a chemical addiction which may throw a hormonal imbalance into play or change genetic pre-disposition, offspring can be affected.

Yes. I guess everything is all interconnected, even if we're not sure of all the interconnections of if they even exist really. Wise. Are you familiar with the works of AL Gore, "Earth in the Balance", and Hillary Clinton, "It Takes a Village."?

You should like these, hippy!

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Yes. I guess everything is all interconnected, even if we're not sure of all the interconnections of if they even exist really. Wise. Are you familiar with the works of AL Gore, "Earth in the Balance", and Hillary Clinton, "It Takes a Village."?

You should like these, hippy!

Believe it or not what I just gave you as illustration IS Biblically justified, and scientifically proven.

It is STILL WRONG.

Al Gore is an idiot.

Clinton(s) is/are idiots.

So are their books.

Why would you suppose me a hippy for proving something like this?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Did you read the articles. There are more out there. just google something like "role of hormones on fetal brain development and effects on homosexual choice" and start reading.

Listen close: Hormone levels in the blood of the baby, which can be from both himself or his mother, effect how the brain develops. Crack effects how the brain develops. I'm beginning to think you have some developmental issues yourself.:clap1:

I'm not saying anyone's supposed to be anything. I'm saying think about sin and a developmental problem and if they're really the same. I think they're not.

You also need to reconsider your stance on affirmative action. The fact that you consider racial discrimination to be a valuable policy tool sickens me.

You have yet to show me hard evidence, the smoking gun if you will that homosexuality is genetic and not a choice. If you want to talk sin and the bible, go to the book of Romans and tell me what it says about homosexuality, god made every single human with the innate urge to reproduce with members of the OPPOSITE SEX, this is irrefutable, you know go forth and multiply. You are trying to say that these people know not right from wrong. Even if, its not, but for sake of argument lets say that queers are born that way, they can't choose to resist those urges much the way a reformed alcoholic abstains from booze?

I think that the fact that you make excuses for people who have a choice, a blatant liberal stance by the way, and choose to ignore the past and continued discrimination against those who have no choice in our society is personally disturbing. I stand by my assumption that you are a closet racist.

Nice soundbites on my A.A. stance too, you make John Kerry proud. My official position is that A.A. should be abolished at some point in time, are we ready now? Absolutely not.

 

[OCA]

Also, none of those articles that you will find offer hard evidence, irrefutable evidence of a genetic or hormonal link. Man i've been looking at this thing for years now because its the single greatest social issue going. They are all theories and suppositions and if that is what you want to base your position on so be it, but you're wrong, or wait, do you eat pipes too? Do you have inside, or shall I say backside information on this subject?

 

[Aquarian]

You are right, you did.

as I clearly stated. I saw other opinions being presented so I felt free to add my own.

Fine, know that you go by the laws of MAN, not God.

Indeed. I have made that decision for myself. It's part of having free will (if indeed we do, existentialism is another topic).

1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : INCORRUPTIBILITY

whether or not my moral code matches yours, I am compelled by my code to speak out against oppression and injustice as I see them. Integrity. While it is partly my ego that makes me think I am correct on any given subject (the same function it serves in all of us), standing up for what you believe to be right is integrity, not ego.

It is also unfair to others to put yourself at the focus of attention in front of others casting aside their choices for a civilized society when you are outnumbered.

Unfair?? Would you say the same of those who fought for civil rights for blacks? for women? for the handicapped? I say by their actions civilized society has been proven not to actually be civilized more than once. I say a society that allows and in cases encourages violence against those who differ from them solely on that basis is unfair. speaking out against 'unfairness' is laudable, whereas silence equals consent as they say.

ps. rwa- I'm the hippy here!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
You have yet to show me hard evidence, the smoking gun if you will that homosexuality is genetic and not a choice. If you want to talk sin and the bible, go to the book of Romans and tell me what it says about homosexuality, god made every single human with the innate urge to reproduce with members of the OPPOSITE SEX, this is irrefutable, you know go forth and multiply. You are trying to say that these people know not right from wrong. Even if, its not, but for sake of argument lets say that queers are born that way, they can't choose to resist those urges much the way a reformed alcoholic abstains from booze?

I think that the fact that you make excuses for people who have a choice, a blatant liberal stance by the way, and choose to ignore the past and continued discrimination against those who have no choice in our society is personally disturbing. I stand by my assumption that you are a closet racist.

Nice soundbites on my A.A. stance too, you make John Kerry proud. My official position is that A.A. should be abolished at some point in time, are we ready now? Absolutely not.

No ones even making the claim it's genetic you moron. Can you even read and understand words?

AA should be abolished now. You're the racist if you think racial discrimination is in any way related to any form of justice. You're pathetic.