The Roma: A Stateless Nation, Historical Background and Contemporary Tendencies

[Mortimer]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235697931_The_Roma_-_a_Nation_without_a_State_Historical_Background_and_Contemporary_Tendencies

Alot to read though... If someone wants to read it....

I noticed two ideologies: One that "Ceo Svet je njihov" Roma own the world, they are everywhere at home etc.
Then a opinion which is sometimes asked, but often by non-roma and with no good intentions really, not positively discussed but with malicious intent, that roma need their own terretory, but the non-roma or the ones who ask or said it see it more like a "gypsies on a island" or "a large concentration camp" the message is "gypsies do not belong here" they do not care for history, or the well being for the roma nation, they want to "get rid of them"....
I dont know if there are any roma, who strive for their own terretory... I know only one guy, though, a slovakian roma who says that.. but he is the only one and im not sure if he is not the tool of someone....

As far as I know Roma are recognised as a stateless nation by the UNO. My personal opinion is that roma dont need a terretory on state level, i think they should organise first on regional level, their own communities, and also second connect on a international level, and that is enough, i mean i dont think they need terretory on state level, they still can be present in every country they are a minority as a political group in the parliament....

On the last elections in Serbia first time a authentic roma party competed in the elections, and won one seat in parliament... They asked Vucic for cooperation, so i do not think roma need more, just better organisation where they already are... and

Romska partija: Zadovoljni smo rezultatima izbora, spremni na razgovore sa svim strankama

Romska partija saopštila je danas da je zadovoljna rezultatima izbora.

www.euronews.rs

Romi na izborima u Srbiji: Najveća manjina, nikakav uticaj – DW – 13. 3. 2022.

Diskriminacija, neobrazovanje i siromaštvo sprečavaju Rome da budu bitan politički faktor. Oni su i između sebe podeljeni u strančice. Sagovornici DW kažu da stvar otežava to što većinske partije „mešetare“ među Romima.

www.dw.com

 

[frigidweirdo]

This came up on my Facebook just now.

If you want to comment on it, it's under the South Yorkshire Live facebook thing(don't ask me why I'm getting stuff like this, I've only gone to Yorkshire once in my life).

Life with Slovak Roma community who fled ghettos to live on Yorkshire estate

Page Hall's Roma fled systematic poverty and prejudice in Slovakia but often face the same negativity in Sheffield

www.examinerlive.co.uk

"The untold stories of a Slovak Roma community who fled ghettos to live on a Yorkshire housing estate"

 

[Mortimer]

This came up on my Facebook just now.

If you want to comment on it, it's under the South Yorkshire Live facebook thing(don't ask me why I'm getting stuff like this, I've only gone to Yorkshire once in my life).

Life with Slovak Roma community who fled ghettos to live on Yorkshire estate

Page Hall's Roma fled systematic poverty and prejudice in Slovakia but often face the same negativity in Sheffield

www.examinerlive.co.uk

"The untold stories of a Slovak Roma community who fled ghettos to live on a Yorkshire housing estate"

Roma face prejudice everywhere not only in Slovakia yes, some of their behaviour provoces others yes. I think for every roma behaviour there are probably comparable behaviours of other communities, ethnic groups etc. or immigrant groups (crime, theft, etc., homelessness etc. neither are all roma that) The thing is now roma are seen as "secret society" going to ripp off the hard working "non-roma etc." it is a bit like about jews, they want to poison the water supplies or they conspire to controll the world etc., just that for jews it is seen as fringe opinion by nazis and anti-semitic and banned through hate speech laws etc. for roma it is mainstream.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Roma face prejudice everywhere not only in Slovakia yes, some of their behaviour provoces others yes. I think for every roma behaviour there are probably comparable behaviours of other communities, ethnic groups etc. or immigrant groups (crime, theft, etc., homelessness etc. neither are all roma that) The thing is now roma are seen as "secret society" going to ripp off the hard working "non-roma etc." it is a bit like about jews, they want to poison the water supplies or they conspire to controll the world etc., just that for jews it is seen as fringe opinion by nazis and anti-semitic and banned through hate speech laws etc. for roma it is mainstream.

Of course. The thing is, it's about numbers. How many more Roma commit crime than other groups? How many Roma fail to achieve a good education than others?

This is what people see.

And yes, groups that stick together will be targeted by politicians with something to gain, like the Roma and the Jews.

 

[Mortimer]

Of course. The thing is, it's about numbers. How many more Roma commit crime than other groups? How many Roma fail to achieve a good education than others?

This is what people see.

And yes, groups that stick together will be targeted by politicians with something to gain, like the Roma and the Jews.

I dont think the roma stick together, the roma dont stick together at all, only recently, gradually and slowly they even developed a national conscience outside their own families that they are roma "and SHOULD stick together" I dont know about jews, but dont think there is any hidden secret mystery behind it not more then the irish stick together to lobby for independend ireland.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I dont think the roma stick together, the roma dont stick together at all, only recently, gradually and slowly they even developed a national conscience outside their own families that they are roma "and SHOULD stick together" I dont know about jews, but dont think there is any hidden secret mystery behind it not more then the irish stick together to lobby for independend ireland.

I don't even necessarily mean as Roma, but even as family. It's more a sense of they're not "us", they're "them". A lot of this is from the perspective of the outside, rather than the inside.

The Irish became like this in the USA when then first moved there. Now they're just Americans, but at one time they were "dirty Irish" with a huge stigma and they did a lot to try and change that, but Jews and Roma are happy to be who they are.
I lived someone's backyard in New Jersey for a summer with five Irish people, the owners of the house were Irish American and they must have though how quaint it must be to have REAL Irish people in their backyard.
I doubt they think that now, after that party they had. A disaster from the beginning.

 

[Mortimer]

I don't even necessarily mean as Roma, but even as family. It's more a sense of they're not "us", they're "them". A lot of this is from the perspective of the outside, rather than the inside.

The Irish became like this in the USA when then first moved there. Now they're just Americans, but at one time they were "dirty Irish" with a huge stigma and they did a lot to try and change that, but Jews and Roma are happy to be who they are.
I lived someone's backyard in New Jersey for a summer with five Irish people, the owners of the house were Irish American and they must have though how quaint it must be to have REAL Irish people in their backyard.
I doubt they think that now, after that party they had. A disaster from the beginning.

Why do you say that at all about Jews? Are you real? Do you know that you can easy get called anti-semitic or that this is anti-semitic or you just say "jew" that you dont only mention roma, and to normalise it? I dont think this is a common opinion anywhere nowadays about jews. About roma maybe, there are lots of myths about roma, and even as "us vs. them" the roma are not connected, i know the roma that they try to mix with others, but get rejected, i cannot speak for all roma, everywhere but this is what i noticed, more like self-hate, self-denial and trying to pass as one of them, and mix with them. I didnt noticed roma being racist to "outsiders".

 

[DudleySmith]

Why do you say that at all about Jews? Are you real? Do you know that you can easy get called anti-semitic or that this is anti-semitic or you just say "jew" that you dont only mention roma, and to normalise it? I dont think this is a common opinion anywhere nowadays about jews. About roma maybe, there are lots of myths about roma, and even as "us vs. them" the roma are not connected, i know the roma that they try to mix with others, but get rejected, i cannot speak for all roma, everywhere but this is what i noticed, more like self-hate, self-denial and trying to pass as one of them, and mix with them. I didnt noticed roma being racist to "outsiders".

So you don't like it when other peoples take care of their own? That's always the case, it seems; it's 'good' when your tribe discriminates in its own favor, but 'bad' when other tribes do the same for theirs. Why are Europeans obligated to bend over for others? Nobody snivels about how non-white nations treat them. That's because they stay in Europe or the U.S. and never leave. Obviously their complaints are baseless. I have once heard a black guy sniveling about how the Chinese discriminate against him, but he stays there anyway.

 

[Mortimer]

So you don't like it when other peoples take care of their own? That's always the case, it seems; it's 'good' when your tribe discriminates in its own favor, but 'bad' when other tribes do the same for theirs. Why are Europeans obligated to bend over for others? Nobody snivels about how non-white nations treat them. That's because they stay in Europe or the U.S. and never leave. Obviously their complaints are baseless. I have once heard a black guy sniveling about how the Chinese discriminate against him, but he stays there anyway.

You put that into my mouth. I dont think it is good if roma would discriminate anyone else or any others. So your comment is baseless. You just want to say Im going to discriminate someone so its ok because you do it too. But you put that in my mouth that i do it.

 

[DudleySmith]

You put that into my mouth. I dont think it is good if roma would discriminate anyone else or any others. So your comment is baseless. You just want to say Im going to discriminate someone so its ok because you do it too. But you put that in my mouth that i do it.

They discriminate in favor of their own people. Giving you stuff takes stuff away from their own. You can't have it both ways. You want to be Roma be Roma; if you want mainstream privileges and bennies then go mainstream and assimilate. Jews historically demanded to be separated into their own enclaves in Christian lands, didn't want their 'culture' tainted by exposure to the subhuman goys, then they sniveled when they outgrew their ghettoes and nobody gave a shit. Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.

 

[Mortimer]

They discriminate in favor of their own people. Givng you stuff takes stuff away from their own. You can't have it both ways.

What do you mean with giving you stuff? Like "air to breath"? I mean the air in your country? Do they take away from you? And if you want to discuss whether roma should live in europe or not, roma should, because they are since 1.500 years in europe. I dont know how long your family is in the USA, certainly not 1.500 years. Maybe your grandfather emigrated from germany, and now you tell me such things.

Gypsies arrived in Europe 1,500 years ago, genetic study says

Migrants from India came to continent much earlier than previously thought, analysis suggests, and arrived in the Balkans

www.theguardian.com

 

[DudleySmith]

What do you mean with giving you stuff? Like "air to breath"? I mean the air in your country? Do they take away from you? And if you want to discuss whether roma should live in europe or not, roma should, because they are since 1.500 years in europe. I dont know how long your family is in the USA, certainly not 1.500 years. Maybe your grandfather emigrated from germany, and now you tell me such things.

Gypsies arrived in Europe 1,500 years ago, genetic study says

Migrants from India came to continent much earlier than previously thought, analysis suggests, and arrived in the Balkans

www.theguardian.com

I see you feel entitled to be given stuff, like all 'minorities' who mooch off the majority culture. You don't want to join them, but you think they have to make room for you and your special needs. They don't. They are already very tolerant, they let you run around for 1,500 years by your own admission; it's you who has the bigot problem.

 

[Mortimer]

I see you feel entitled to be given stuff, like all 'minorities' who mooch off the majority culture. You don't want to join them, but you think they have to make room for you and your special needs. They don't.

Seems like a baseless phrase or a white nationalist meme. Just a insult nothing else, baseless, no reason, no logic, no truth.

 

[DudleySmith]

Seems like a baseless phrase or a white nationalist meme. Just a insult nothing else, baseless, no reason, no logic, no truth.

Yes, I nailed your own prejudices. You just choose to whine and think everybody else should bend to your will, is all.

 

[Mortimer]

Yes, I nailed your own prejudices. You just choose to whine and think everybody else should bend to your will, is all.

I didnt even whine and my thread is not even primarily about "discrimination" "free stuff" and "racism", my thread is not even about that. It says stateless nation etc.. maybe it is a element of it, in the bigger picture, but not even the primarily focus of my thread.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why do you say that at all about Jews? Are you real? Do you know that you can easy get called anti-semitic or that this is anti-semitic or you just say "jew" that you dont only mention roma, and to normalise it? I dont think this is a common opinion anywhere nowadays about jews. About roma maybe, there are lots of myths about roma, and even as "us vs. them" the roma are not connected, i know the roma that they try to mix with others, but get rejected, i cannot speak for all roma, everywhere but this is what i noticed, more like self-hate, self-denial and trying to pass as one of them, and mix with them. I didnt noticed roma being racist to "outsiders".

Trust me, I've been called anti-Semitic enough to not care.
And guess what, I don't oppose the Jews at all. In fact I usually support Israel over Hamas.

The problem is you seem to be saying that reality is something we can't talk about. The other problem is that leading people to ignorance doesn't make anti-Semitism, or hatred of any other group get better....

 

[DudleySmith]

Trust me, I've been called anti-Semitic enough to not care.

lol I have more Jewish genetic markers than 90% of Israeli Jews, who don't have any. I don't care either.

 

[Mortimer]

They discriminate in favor of their own people. Giving you stuff takes stuff away from their own. You can't have it both ways. You want to be Roma be Roma; if you want mainstream privileges and bennies then go mainstream and assimilate. Jews historically demanded to be separated into their own enclaves in Christian lands, didn't want their 'culture' tainted by exposure to the subhuman goys, then they sniveled when they outgrew their ghettoes and nobody gave a shit. Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.

You have edited your post. I do not want to be roma that is what i am I did not choose it. Just like you do not want to have blue eyes you have blue eyes. Also people reject assimilation with roma they consider roma blood as impure and filthy and a racial threat but i do not demand to live in my own enclave or consider goys filthy it seems you have little knowledge or ideas about me or roma and i do not speak for all roma

 

[Mortimer]

Trust me, I've been called anti-Semitic enough to not care.
And guess what, I don't oppose the Jews at all. In fact I usually support Israel over Hamas.

The problem is you seem to be saying that reality is something we can't talk about. The other problem is that leading people to ignorance doesn't make anti-Semitism, or hatred of any other group get better....

I never said you can not talk about it but reality is not simplicistic and popularist and is multifaceted many individuals have their unique struggles and experiences you paint it simplicistic and popularist to target roma as group you even say for roma it is ok but it would not be for irish or others only for roma and jews but i suspect you just mention jews so it will look as if you are not anti roma or single only that group out so it will look more informed less biased and trustworthy I doubt you really want to target jews

 

[DudleySmith]

You have edited your post. I do not want to be roma that is what i am I did not choose it. Just like you do not want to have blue eyes you have blue eyes. Also people reject assimilation with roma they consider roma blood as impure and filthy and a racial threat but i do not demand to live in my own enclave or consider goys filthy it seems you have little knowledge or ideas about me or roma and i do not speak for all roma

lol you want to be part of the 'Roma Nation' and have stated that here. Quit pissing on our legs and then trying to tell us it's raining. You harp on your Roma ethnicity constantly. You're the racist, not the host countries you think should cater to your ethnic group.