The rich shall be lost in Hell

[Quatermass]

...according to Jesus Christ.

Those who are held up as the greatest of figures under the auspices of the Capitalist system. Those captains of industries, the millionaire presidents and financiers; iconic media moguls and the brightest stars of entertainment royalty are, according to the Christian doctrine, esteemed least in the eyes of God:

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24

Every rich man is also a lover of their wealth, for it is this quality (the love of mammon) which constitutes the driving force behind their entrepreneurial endeavours, and indeed the very framework of the profit system in which Humanity now laments.

"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God."
Luke 6:20

And who is rich? If one defines being ‘rich’ as having an unequal balance of wealth and also that in God’s all seeing eyes comparisons work not only on a local and national level, but also on an international footing then the parameters of judgement are wide indeed for inhabitants of the1st World.

Those who wallow in splendour amidst a sea of want, an ocean of exploitation and a backdrop of need are an affront to all that is true and decent. Surely they have had their reward in this life and have no place amongst the children of Heaven?

I reopen the question http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/74124-will-the-rich-be-lost-in-hell.html, debated recently on USMessageboard, for more enlightened commentary of the righteous masses that peruse the pages of this virtual place.

"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."
Proverbs 11:1

 

[del]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[AllieBaba]

Great. Another lunatic using the bible to support communism.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Del, nice use of "Z", conveys all the condescension without the bother of actually saying anything. By the way, is that the responsibility of a moderator on this board? Being a contrary jerk, or is that just something you like, humiliating people and paying USMB for it? I know, I'm an idiot. Yes, I am, yes sir. And you? You like to lord it over everyone just how bloody smart you are ! Bang up job, sweetpea, makes me proud to be on this board.

 

[elvis]

...according to Jesus Christ.

Those who are held up as the greatest of figures under the auspices of the Capitalist system. Those captains of industries, the millionaire presidents and financiers; iconic media moguls and the brightest stars of entertainment royalty are, according to the Christian doctrine, esteemed least in the eyes of God:

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24

Every rich man is also a lover of their wealth, for it is this quality (the love of mammon) which constitutes the driving force behind their entrepreneurial endeavours, and indeed the very framework of the profit system in which Humanity now laments.

"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God."
Luke 6:20

And who is rich? If one defines being ‘rich’ as having an unequal balance of wealth and also that in God’s all seeing eyes comparisons work not only on a local and national level, but also on an international footing then the parameters of judgement are wide indeed for inhabitants of the1st World.

Those who wallow in splendour amidst a sea of want, an ocean of exploitation and a backdrop of need are an affront to all that is true and decent. Surely they have had their reward in this life and have no place amongst the children of Heaven?

I reopen the question http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/74124-will-the-rich-be-lost-in-hell.html, debated recently on USMessageboard, for more enlightened commentary of the righteous masses that peruse the pages of this virtual place.

"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."
Proverbs 11:1

Looks like you'll be surrounded by millionaires.

 

[C-101]

...according to Jesus Christ.

Those who are held up as the greatest of figures under the auspices of the Capitalist system. Those captains of industries, the millionaire presidents and financiers; iconic media moguls and the brightest stars of entertainment royalty are, according to the Christian doctrine, esteemed least in the eyes of God:

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24

Every rich man is also a lover of their wealth, for it is this quality (the love of mammon) which constitutes the driving force behind their entrepreneurial endeavours, and indeed the very framework of the profit system in which Humanity now laments.

"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God."
Luke 6:20

And who is rich? If one defines being ‘rich’ as having an unequal balance of wealth and also that in God’s all seeing eyes comparisons work not only on a local and national level, but also on an international footing then the parameters of judgement are wide indeed for inhabitants of the1st World.

Those who wallow in splendour amidst a sea of want, an ocean of exploitation and a backdrop of need are an affront to all that is true and decent. Surely they have had their reward in this life and have no place amongst the children of Heaven?

I reopen the question http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/74124-will-the-rich-be-lost-in-hell.html, debated recently on USMessageboard, for more enlightened commentary of the righteous masses that peruse the pages of this virtual place.

"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."
Proverbs 11:1

Let me refer you to what Jesus says after Matthew 19:24.

Matthew Chp. 19 NKJV

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[k] or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

--------------------------------------------

In effect, it is impossible for men to enter Heaven whether they are rich or not, as "all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God."

But with God, all things are possible, which is evidenced by the forgiveness that Christ offers to men.

 

[RodISHI]

Quatermass, do you believe in the whole Word or just a portion of the Word of God?

 

[Agnapostate]

Great. Another lunatic using the bible to support communism.

Why would he refer to that passage to support communism? Far more rational would be reference to the apostles' practice of libertarian communism as described in the book of Acts.

 

[Oddball]

\ Far more rational would be reference to the apostles' practice of libertarian communism as described in the book of Acts.

"Libertarian" and "communist" are contradictions in terms.

Libertarians may or may not give as a matter of volition, while communists WILL give as a matter of coercion.

You should really be more careful about projecting your politics into scripture.

 

[Agnapostate]

"Libertarian" and "communist" are contradictions in terms.

Libertarians may or may not give as a matter of volition, while communists WILL give as a matter of coercion.

You should really be more careful about projecting your politics into scripture.

It was only a matter of time until someone from the mises.org Caucus decided to pipe in with their two cents. No matter. You are incorrect. Libertarianism originated as a philosophy of French anarcho-socialists, the term "libertarian" being used to circumvent French anti-anarchist laws. For instance, you'll find that the first usage of the term "libertarian" in print was in an 1857 letter of the French anarcho-communist Joseph Dejacque. Conversely, the U.S. "Libertarian" Party has only existed since the early 1970's, which effectively means that anarcho-socialists were using the term more than a century before its misappropriation. Moreover, your usage of the term "communism" is also apparently an inaccurate reference to state capitalism, so you should be really be more careful about projecting your ideological misconceptions onto a noble school of thought.

 

[editec]

Materialism is antithetical to spiritualism.

Worshipping Mammon isn't merely making money, it's worshipping the material world.

Some people (perhaps many, who can really say?) make lots of money without selling their souls to do so.

Some people (perhaps many, who can really say) don't make lots of money and still sell their souls, anyway.

Is, for example, the low paid thug of an evil rich man, more likely to get into heaven than the innocent scion of that evil rich man?

If, for example, that scion lived a blameless life of luxury, one where they did what they could with their money to help, but remained wealthy at the same time..

..is that scion less loved in heaven than the THUGS who make it possible for that blameless scion to continue to live in luxury?

I've known a lot of thoroughly decent wealthy people.

I've known a lot of thoroughly indecent poor people.

ARe we to believe that the poor sinners are more loved in heaven than the wealthy innocents?

I find that rather hard to believe.

My point here is that I don't think GOD generalizes.

If we are to stand in judgement, I suspect that GOD knows our heart of hearts.

And that is what will be judged...not the balance of our banks accounts, but the balance of our souls.

 

[Skull Pilot]

God wants you to be rich

 

[TofuDog]

If god wants you to be rich, then why did he invent poor people?

 

[Quatermass]

C-101

The scripture following Mat: 19,24 further reiterates the tenor of the camel allegory by assuring those who forgo the comforts of Man's material realm for the path of righteousness, reward in Heaven.

RodISHI

I do not believe all the scriptures in the Bible are necessarily the 'word of God', or 'the truth'.

Like a mirror these testaments will reflect the stage of spiritual evolution present in the reader. Those inclined towards Evil will, quite naturally, select passages and verses which support greed, selfishness, individualism, privilege and 'divine rage'; Inversely those more pure of heart will lean for support on enlightened sentiments such as universal, unconditional love, the pursuit of peace, application of principles of equality and the fair distribution of wealth.

Even with such a wealth of spiritual guidance at hand, choice is still key.

Many Christians today believe all and every word expressed in this collection of books is the 'word of God', but for them lies only the confusion which arises from embracing contradiction, for the key to opening the Bible lies in the application of discretion.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Great. Another lunatic using the bible to support communism.

My Father gives 20% to his church. Why does the gubamint demand twice that?

 

[Oddball]

"Libertarian" and "communist" are contradictions in terms.

Libertarians may or may not give as a matter of volition, while communists WILL give as a matter of coercion.

You should really be more careful about projecting your politics into scripture.

It was only a matter of time until someone from the mises.org Caucus decided to pipe in with their two cents. No matter. You are incorrect. Libertarianism originated as a philosophy of French anarcho-socialists, the term "libertarian" being used to circumvent French anti-anarchist laws. For instance, you'll find that the first usage of the term "libertarian" in print was in an 1857 letter of the French anarcho-communist Joseph Dejacque. Conversely, the U.S. "Libertarian" Party has only existed since the early 1970's, which effectively means that anarcho-socialists were using the term more than a century before its misappropriation. Moreover, your usage of the term "communism" is also apparently an inaccurate reference to state capitalism, so you should be really be more careful about projecting your ideological misconceptions onto a noble school of thought.

The little history lesson is irrelevant to the fact that collectivism, of any sort, and the the primacy and sovereignty of the individual are oil-and-water concepts.

Every group has their turncoats....Hell, Alan Greenspan was one of Ayn Rand's original inner circle, and look where he ended up.

 

[Agnapostate]

The little history lesson is irrelevant to the fact that collectivism, of any sort, and the the primacy and sovereignty of the individual are oil-and-water concepts.

Every group has their turncoats....Hell, Alan Greenspan was one of Ayn Rand's original inner circle, and look where he ended up.

Incorrect. Collectivism cannot be a reality if not for individual choice, and can facilitate greater opportunity for sovereign action of individuals through mutual aid.

 

[Quatermass]

editec...
While I agree that all things are to be taken into account in one’s ‘day of judgement’, the thrust of Jesus Christ’s message on the plight of the rich is quite unmistakable here. So incontrovertible in fact that many have and continue to ‘revise the intent’ of this passage so that it may ‘fit more comfortably into the shape of the world around them‘. I’ve heard many ‘excuses’ and ‘reinterpretations’ as to the ‘actual relevance’ of Mathew 19,24 from imaginary ‘gate names’ of Biblical Jerusalem to ‘it’s not money only the love of money that’s the sin’ (hence my incorporation of “Every rich man is also a lover of their wealth” and the artwork.)

The love of riches is the cornerstone of the Capitalist system. It drives every significant endeavour and determines whether a president is assassinated or not; whether a nation is invaded or not. This lust for riches is the dream which prevails and permeates and excites to motivation. A dream which is predicated upon a nightmare, for with every single rich person that ascends to the apex of Capitalism, there lies beneath them a pyramid of exploited human beings, each tier of the class structure resting upon the shoulders of toiling masses beneath. The 1st World resting on the 2nd and both on the 3rd.

In editec’s example, he advances the scenario of the ‘low paid thug’ and the ‘innocent scion’; the blameless scion’.

Why doesn’t the rich man qualify as the thug given the coercive forces of the state which come replete with that status? I find your value system rather perverse editec, (not only on this issue but also your description of the Atom-bombing of 200.000 civilians as “..Not inhumane”. http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...he-greatest-thing-in-history.html#post1217121 ) But surely, reasons editec, the poor who are thoroughly indecent and sinful are not favoured in heaven over the glorious Rich?

Apparently this is the case editec. It has something to do with theft, and inequality; greed and selfishness. Apparently the poor are blessed in their destitution while the rich are damned in their glory.

And God isn’t a Capitalist after all.



16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5

 

[Seraega]

Great. Another lunatic using the bible to support communism.

My Father gives 20% to his church. Why does the gubamint demand twice that?

Because the "gubamint" doesn't have just 1 guy who took a vow of poverty to support, they have an entire nation.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Okay..........

First, Yeshua stated that it is EASIER for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter Heaven.

He didn't say it was impossible, nor did He state they had a one way express straight down into Hell (which incidentally, is a concoction made up by the Catholic Church, as scary sermons brought better attendance), He stated it was EASIER.

Now.........if you hold that needle's eye close to yours and look through it at a camel several yards away (like around 100), then you CAN get a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

Why won't many rich people go to Heaven (actually, eventually everyone makes it, look in the Torah, as well as the Lost Gospel of Thomas)? Simple........poor people don't have much money, so therefore, there are fewer distractions to take your focus off of God. Rich people have lots of things to do, get bored easily, and generally just pay lip service to church, thinking that a large donation once a week will buy their ticket. And.......they rarely seek out God unless things in their life go VERY wrong.

So, that's why.