The Patriot Act

[Gabriella84]

Has anyone read it? I mean all of it. The whole thing.

I saw in another thread where some posters believe that no basic freedoms have been curtailed by the Patriot Act. Maybe you forgot to read these:

**The government has the right to tap your phone, without your knowledge or permission.

**If you use a computer at your work place, they normally keep records. The government has a right to request any correspondence. Once again, without your knowledge or consent.

**If you check out a library book or purchase a book, the government has a right to the records.

**If you are deemed a "threat," your home, vehicle and/or person can be legally searched without a warrant.

**The government can deem you a "threat to security" (i.e. an "enemy combatant") and arrest you without further cause. You can be held without representation. Your family and friends will not be notified, and are not even allowed to inquire.

**The government has the right to restrict your travel (i.e. the "no fly list") for any reason they deem appropriate.

As you see, it involves more than just taking off your shoes at the airport.

 

[dmp]

I'll feel sorry for you when you can argue or show how the Patriot has adversely affected your life.

 

[Mr. P]

Has anyone read it? I mean all of it. The whole thing.

I saw in another thread where some posters believe that no basic freedoms have been curtailed by the Patriot Act. Maybe you forgot to read these:

I have read it, you obviously have not.......

**The government has the right to tap your phone, without your knowledge or permission.

.....No change here really, just additions that cover new technology...(cell phones) and expand placement areas for taps. A court order is still needed.

**If you use a computer at your work place, they normally keep records. The government has a right to request any correspondence. Once again, without your knowledge or consent.

I didn't see anything that addressed an employer. This change applies to service (ISP) providers.
Keep in mind any computer provided by an employer is not your property anyway and you have no right to privacy while using it. Again, this requires a Court Order.

**If you check out a library book or purchase a book, the government has a right to the records.

Same here, there must be a Court order.

**If you are deemed a "threat," your home, vehicle and/or person can be legally searched without a warrant.

This is false..The language just allows a delay in obtaining a warrant under some circumstances (in the interest of securing evidence before it's destroyed)...It still requires a Court order.

**The government can deem you a "threat to security" (i.e. an "enemy combatant") and arrest you without further cause. You can be held without representation. Your family and friends will not be notified, and are not even allowed to inquire.

........This section addresses aliens, are you an alien?

**The government has the right to restrict your travel (i.e. the "no fly list") for any reason they deem appropriate.

......They should restrict all rednecks in tank tops.

As you see, it involves more than just taking off your shoes at the airport.

Yeah, it takes avoiding the kool-aid stand. Which it appears you have a weakness for.

 

[5stringJeff]

Gabriella, your first three points still do not keep anybody from doing anything. You can still use the phone or go to the library all you want.

#4: as the Patriot Act was originally written, 'sneak-and-peek' searches were only allowed in very specific cases (i.e. those dealing with terrorists or suspected terrorists), the gov't still had to have a warrant, and the gov't had to reveal the search after it happened. The newer amendments (debated this year; don't know the status) would have eliminated the need to get a judge's consent; I, for one, am against that, as it would be blatantly unconstitutional.

#5: the only people who are "arrested without cause" are foreigners who have committed terrorist acts. Just recently, the USSC ruled that a US citizen involved with terrorism still retains all the rights specified in the Constitution (I think the guy's name was Jorge Pasada, or something like that).

#6: The no-fly list may restrict one's right to use airplanes. It does not restrict one's right ot travel by other means (trains, buses, car, charter air).

 

[GotZoom]

Has anyone read it? I mean all of it. The whole thing.

I saw in another thread where some posters believe that no basic freedoms have been curtailed by the Patriot Act. Maybe you forgot to read these:

**The government has the right to tap your phone, without your knowledge or permission.

**If you use a computer at your work place, they normally keep records. The government has a right to request any correspondence. Once again, without your knowledge or consent.

**If you check out a library book or purchase a book, the government has a right to the records.

**If you are deemed a "threat," your home, vehicle and/or person can be legally searched without a warrant.

**The government can deem you a "threat to security" (i.e. an "enemy combatant") and arrest you without further cause. You can be held without representation. Your family and friends will not be notified, and are not even allowed to inquire.

**The government has the right to restrict your travel (i.e. the "no fly list") for any reason they deem appropriate.

As you see, it involves more than just taking off your shoes at the airport.

I believe the question was asked how it affected YOUR life. Not everybody's life in general.

Let's assume, just for argument sake, that you are completely right about all these things..the government can do this without any kind of court order at all (which we know isn't true).

Have YOU done anything to have your phone tapped?
Have your library books monitored?
What are you emailing at work? I doubt the government would have a problem with what you are posting on this board - they might laugh - but seriously, I doubt they are worried.
Are you planning a flight to Irag or Afghanistan soon? Are you doing something that would cause concern?

You know what I say? Listen to my phone calls. They are pretty boring actually, except when I talk about...well, you know....a little phone fun. Just might make them blush, although I am sure they have heard much worse.

I haven't checked out a book from the library in ages so no worries there.

My computer activities are monitored at work, but I have nothing to hide.

Only place out of the country I plan on flying to is Aruba and Europe. And if the feds want to check me out before I go, so be it.

Again, I have nothing to hide.

So.....again, how has the Patriot Act affected YOUR everyday life?

 

[Merlin1047]

Has anyone read it? I mean all of it. The whole thing.

Ah yes - there's that condescension that we have come to know and love. You just can't help yourself, can you? Is that air of smug superiortity something you got from the pair of LSD dropping hippies who must have raised you?

**The government has the right to tap your phone, without your knowledge or permission.

NO SHIT!!!!! Guess what - that's NOT new. If you're under criminal investigation, the government has no obligation to get your permission or to let you know. Gee what a shocker. You're right - this Patriot Act needs to go!

**If you use a computer at your work place, they normally keep records. The government has a right to request any correspondence. Once again, without your knowledge or consent.

Same reply as before. It's called a search warrant.

I'm not going to even bother detailing the rest of your crap. What's the point? Be content with your views, just don't be upset when people who truly do have a rational capacity point and laugh at you.

 

[Gabriella84]

You don't have to be an alien to be detained. A tenured professor where I attend school (Cal) was held without reason after e-mails he had exchanged with another faculty member criticizing the government were intercepted.

The government does not need a court order, but can easily obtain one. You do not have to be a foreigner. All you need to be is classified as an "enemy combatant" or "hostile."

just don't be upset when people who truly do have a rational capacity point...

Present company excluded, I'm sure... :funnyface

 

[dmp]

Again Gabby fails to demonstrate how he/she has been affected by the Patriot Act. (sigh).

Conclusion: He/She just likes bitchin' about stuff.

 

[CSM]

You don't have to be an alien to be detained. A tenured professor where I attend school (Cal) was held without reason after e-mails he had exchanged with another faculty member criticizing the government were intercepted.

The government does not need a court order, but can easily obtain one. You do not have to be a foreigner. All you need to be is classified as an "enemy combatant" or "hostile."



Present company excluded, I'm sure... :funnyface

and just what do you suggest we do with enemy combatants or hostiles???

That's why I am in favor of a "take no prisoners" policy.

Of course, a tenured college professor would NEVER do anything to denigrate the US or it's government....heh. And naturally, a tenured college professor would NEVER skew the facts....

 

[GotZoom]

Again Gabby fails to demonstrate how he/she has been affected by the Patriot Act. (sigh).

Conclusion: He/She just likes bitchin' about stuff.

Psssst....she can't answer it because it hasn't happened.

Agree with your conclusion.

 

[Johnney]

i dont know about the rest of you,XXXXXXXXXXXX but i havent lost any thing since its inception. nor have any of my records (to the bet of my knowledge) been surrendered to the feds. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx but then again im a fine upstanding member of my XXXXXXX im no more an enemy of the States than my cat, Dog, is.
maybe Gabriella84 is on some sort of no-fly list, or XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, or XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, or takes part in something the gov't wants to track for some reason.

but then again, maybe he/she/it jsut needs to get back on the meds

Post Edited by FBI Agent #2667 Violation of Code 6932.USC.34b & c - Under provisions of Patriot Act

 

[GotZoom]

i dont know about the rest of you, but i havent lost any thing since its inception. nor have any of my records (to the bet of my knowledge) been surrendered to the feds. but then again im a fine upstanding member of my neighborhood. im no more an enemy of the States than my cat, Dog, is.
maybe Gabriella84 is on some sort of no-fly list, or takes part in something the gov't wants to track for some reason.

but then again, maybe he/she/it jsut needs to get back on the meds

She isn't logged on the board right now. Perhaps she is at the pharmacy as we speak.

 

[dmp]

i dont know about the rest of you,XXXXXXXXXXXX but i havent lost any thing since its inception. nor have any of my records (to the bet of my knowledge) been surrendered to the feds. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx but then again im a fine upstanding member of my XXXXXXX im no more an enemy of the States than my cat, Dog, is.
maybe Gabriella84 is on some sort of no-fly list, or XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, or XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, or takes part in something the gov't wants to track for some reason.

but then again, maybe he/she/it jsut needs to get back on the meds

Post Edited by FBI Agent #2667 Violation of Code 6932.USC.34b & c - Under provisions of Patriot Act

DAMN! Maybe there IS something to Gabby's fears!!???!!

 

[manu1959]

You don't have to be an alien to be detained. A tenured professor where I attend school (Cal) was held without reason after e-mails he had exchanged with another faculty member criticizing the government were intercepted.

The government does not need a court order, but can easily obtain one. You do not have to be a foreigner. All you need to be is classified as an "enemy combatant" or "hostile."

the government has always had this right......cal berkeley....that explains everything

 

[Merlin1047]

Present company excluded, I'm sure... :funnyface

Oh ouchie. That was sooooo devastating. Do you write your own material, or do you have a committee of half wits to assist you?

 

[GotZoom]

Oh ouchie. That was sooooo devastating. Do you write your own material, or do you have a committee of half wits to assist you?

If the half wits read what she has posted, they would be insulted at your suggestion.

 

[OCA]

Ok Gabriela, me OCA being a conservative is going to jump in with you here on your side even though I wholeheartedly disagree with you and your pacifist views on the WOT.

Did the Patriot Act effect me personally? No, but on the other hand I am staunchly against ANY, and I mean any enlargement of government or government power since they tend to fuck everything up every time. The Patriot Act, although well intentioned, did just this very thing.

 

[OCA]

Dear posters,

Just to show i'm a fair person i've read all of Gabriela's posts so far since she was banned and that peaked my interest, although I disagree with her 99% of the time i've found her posts well thought out and reasoned from her point of view and without flaming. I'd hate to think we were being rude just because of her views, are we? I mean this is not Bully I don't think. Now on the other hand if she gets out of line have at her like a pack of hungry lions but in the meantime lets debate, just debate cleanly.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GotZoom]

Dear posters,

Just to show i'm a fair person i've read all of Gabriela's posts so far since she was banned and that peaked my interest, although I disagree with her 99% of the time i've found her posts well thought out and reasoned from her point of view and without flaming. I'd hate to think we were being rude just because of her views, are we? I mean this is not Bully I don't think. Now on the other hand if she gets out of line have at her like a pack of hungry lions but in the meantime lets debate, just debate cleanly.

Thanks in advance.

Was she just banned today? Or are you talking about something before?

 

[5stringJeff]

Was she just banned today? Or are you talking about something before?

She had been banned yesterday briefly. She is currently reinstated.