“The parties are equally f_ _ ked for Americans”. That’s what fence-sitters tell us…Is it true?

[sartre play]

People who have no party loyalty criticize both parties. Why does that come as a surprise?

Big problem. Party loyalty over country loyalty.

 

[JohnDB]

Even in congress when no one snowflake feels any responsibility for the avalanche....

 

[sartre play]

WE have a problem with illegal's. Show me where ANY ONE has made any major improvements in that area.
And I find it really strange that NO ONE seems to know how we went from a small population of homeless to the ever growing number we have now.

 

[JWBooth]

 

[dblack]

 

[dblack]

Nothing will improve until voters get some backbone and say no the lesser-of-two-evils lie.

 

[Stryder50]

Nothing will improve until voters get some backbone and say no the lesser-of-two-evils lie.

Nothing will improve until people stop "saying" and start DOING.
Check the mirror, "you" are part of the problem.

 

[Stryder50]

QUOTES:

“Politics is not evil; politics is the human race’s most magnificent achievement.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Podkayne of Mars

“Think about it. Politics is just a name for the way we get things done ... without fighting. We dicker and compromise and everybody thinks he has received a raw deal, but somehow after a tedious amount of talk we come up with some jury-rigged way to do it without getting anybody's head bashed in. That's politics. The only other way to settle a dispute is by bashing a few heads in ... and that is what happens when one or both sides is no longer willing to dicker. That's why I say politics is good even when it is bad
because the only alternative is force-and somebody gets hurt. -- Senator Tom Fries”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Podkayne of Mars
...

Podkayne of Mars Quotes by Robert A. Heinlein

2 quotes from Podkayne of Mars: ‘Politics is not evil; politics is the human race’s most magnificent achievement.’

www.goodreads.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meanwhile, after about 120+ posts and still none of you wise geniuses has a solution other than "politics" or "head bashing".

 

[Stryder50]

That is an intellectually lazy assessment. "Big Gov" is a bogus complaint. Regardless the economy and deficit do better under democrats than republicans. If you like a party that lies about their goals - vote for filthy pubs. They say they are small governement but are bigger gov than dems. It just doesnt help average people. It goes to corporations and the wealthy. That doesnt bother you cuz you like to see people suffer as a sign the government is saving money. That is fucked up dude.

And you support the filthy Dems whom are the party of wealth redistribution, taking from those who produce and create wealth to give away to parasitic non-producers like yourself. Dems have become criminals seeking to legalize their crimes.

 

[Stryder50]

I just think you're missing the point. It isn't that Biden and Trump are the same, or even that they are equally bad. It's that they are both so far below any minimum standards for the office that there's no way I could vote for either. And I'm not going to waste much time trying to sort out which one is worse.

If you are so smarter than either of them, you should run for office.

I suspect you are all big hat and no cattle.

 

[lennypartiv]

It is a big world out there, why limit yourself to just one part of it?

Wow, you're going to move to a shit hole country. After you spent countless election days here voting for candidates who let people from shit hole countries move to America.

 

[Stryder50]

IMO, there is enough revenue being generated for everything that is needed to
finance a country of this size. The issue is on the spending, and I'm talking about wasteful spending.
Totally and incredible wasteful, AND without oversight. We have a committee for just that purpose,
and somehow it fails regardless of which party is in control. There are no innocents, just incompetence.

At this point in time, USA unfunded liabilities amount to over $213 Trillion. Works out to $632,xxx per Citizen. Note only about less than half of citizens are taxpayers. National(Federal) Debt now @$34 Trillion, $6.5 Trillion of that added since Biden went into office.

You and others here should do some home work and look at the real numbers;

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Notice towards the upper left there is a tab for "Time Machine", will take you back incrementally to 1980

 

[Stryder50]

1. I remember when there was a government study to root out "waste, fraud, and abuse" and to make the government more efficient and effective, called the "Grace Commission". Their policy recommendations were ignored.

Grace Commission - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The report said that one-third of all income taxes are consumed by waste and inefficiency in the federal government, and another one-third escapes collection owing to the underground economy. "With two thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services that taxpayers expect from their government."

2. As for enough revenue being generated, nope, not now. The interest on the Debt is consuming too much revenue, and the DC morons keep borrowing more. But your point about cutting spending is spot on.

3. If Republicans don't get significant Budget Cuts in January, the fiscal war is over. The US dollar will collapse. The party is officially over, the punch bowl needs to be removed. Trump's Budgets were about $4T, Biden's Budgets are about $7T. That is insanity.

4. Its not "incompetence" that we're in this mess, its just the way politics works. A government shutdown in January may be part of the answer. Only fund what is actually essential.

Define what is essential.
Check the unfunded liabilities and tell us how you plan to pay them.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Or will you just bail out on the obligations and commitments?

 

[Stryder50]

Big problem. Party loyalty over country loyalty.

Big problem, each Party has a different definition of "country loyalty".
What is your definition of "country loyalty"?
What are you personally doing that complies with your definition of "country loyalty"?

Talk the talk is not the same as walk the walk.

 

[Stryder50]

WE have a problem with illegal's. Show me where ANY ONE has made any major improvements in that area.
And I find it really strange that NO ONE seems to know how we went from a small population of homeless to the ever growing number we have now.

About nine out of ten of the "homeless" have a drug and/or alcohol 'problem'.

 

[kyzr]

Define what is essential.
Check the unfunded liabilities and tell us how you plan to pay them.
Or will you just bail out on the obligations and commitments?

1. Are Welfare and Medicaid "essential"? Maybe cut costs or eligibility to save some money?
2. Social Security and Medicare are essential since those benefits were paid for and are owed. "Fixes" are easy.
3. Defense is essential, but more than the next 10 defense budgets added together?
4. Can non-essential government spending be cut? Education, subsidies, foreign aid, etc?
5. Can't bail out on commitments like interest on the debt or on government bonds, i.e. "default"

I agree that the Debt Clock is a time bomb that need to be addressed now.

 

[Stryder50]

.............
... Ever been a candidate? It is like getting married and having your appendix out, while going over Niagara Falls in a barrel. One or more meetings every evening, breakfast clubs on Saturdays and Sundays, a Kiwanis, Rotary, or Lions, or Chamber of Commerce lunch to hit at noon, an occasional appearance in court, endless correspondence, phone calls, conferences, and, to top it off, as many hours of doorbell pushing as I could force into each day.
...
And every day there was the problem of money. Even with a volunteer, unpaid organization, politics costs money-printing, postage, hall rental, telephone bills, and there is gasoline and lunch money for people who can’t carry their own expenses. A dollar here and a dollar there and soon you are three thousand bucks in the red. (1945 $$$, 2023 inflation is at least 20 times that.)
............
... a candidate can be unbossed, but not independent. Independence is an adolescent notion. To merit support you have to commit yourself-and there goes your independence.

“But I — Oh, politics is a rotten business!”

“You make me tired! Politics is just as clean-or as dirty-as the people who practice it. The people who say it’s dirty are too lazy to do their part in it.”
..........

Heinlein, Robert A – A Bathroom Of Her Own – Library. Read online. Free books read online. Read books without registering

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Heinlein tends to be pragmatic and realist in his commentary regards politics within his stories/novels. Excerpts I present here and in the further above post have matched my personal experience of being active in politics.

 

[Stryder50]

1. Are Welfare and Medicaid "essential"? Maybe cut costs or eligibility to save some money?
2. Social Security and Medicare are essential since those benefits were paid for and are owed. "Fixes" are easy.
3. Defense is essential, but more than the next 10 defense budgets added together?
4. Can non-essential government spending be cut? Education, subsidies, foreign aid, etc?
5. Can't bail out on commitments like interest on the debt or on government bonds, i.e. "default"

I agree that the Debt Clock is a time bomb that need to be addressed now.

A rather generic list of general nature.
Specifics, line itemized, etc. would be more useful.

You may want to study the numbers in all the categories of this display;

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Remember that inflation is a factor here as well. When I was a teen back in the 1960s a candy bar was a nickel or a dime, now the same ones are close to two dollars, and a bit smaller in size.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Wow, you're going to move to a shit hole country.

Nope, if the plan works out we will be moving to a thriving country with a stable economy and government.

After you spent countless election days here voting for candidates who let people from shit hole countries move to America.

I quit doing that in 1996, learned my lesson after my first 3 elections.

Jorgensen - 2020
Johnson - 2016
Johnson - 2012
Barr - 2008
Badnarik - 2004
Browne - 2000
Perot. - 1996
Clinton- 1992
Bush I -1988
Reagan - 1984

 

[Harpy Eagle]

A rather generic list of general nature.
Specifics, line itemized, etc. would be more useful.

You may want to study the numbers in all the categories of this display;

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Remember that inflation is a factor here as well. When I was a teen back in the 1960s a candy bar was a nickel or a dime, now the same ones are close to two dollars, and a bit smaller in size.

What is your suggestion?