The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

Yet again, you make a superior contribution to the discussion, that goes very appreciated.

There was a very striking line that struck a cord with me:

“moral duty” → to explain the “true intentions and practical course”​

Charles de Gaulle and David Ben Gurion’s Defense of Israel

(COMMENT)

Yes, the letter was a very good catalyst for thought and reflection. And, I have written about the "Sultan Abdul Aziz amd how he allocated the "Alliance Israelite Universelle" 2600 dunams of land east of Jaffa for the establishment of a school of agriculture (1870). I have written about that with little or no notice. One member of the group equated the school as part of the European invasion of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

Intuition tells me Your argument is more on the theological side rather than state sovereignty in modern terms.

Call it what you may but Israel was a person not a place and there was never a land call "Israel" until 1948 ad

I want t call it the Land of Israel, for me it's my grand grand father's land, and has been so for millenias.

 

[rylah]

Jewish nation and its' natural historical connection to the land was recognized when the sovereignty over all of Palestine was vested with the Jewish Nation by an act of international law

At least you recognized that the true name of the land was and will soon return to "Palestine"

The true name of the land is Israel, if Arabs want to pose as the Philistines they'll receive historic justice, both as Philistines and as Arabian invaders.

 

[rylah]

Israel is definitely not a secular state, I would go as far and say that nothing about Israel can really be secular because of the main theme of this nation history.

You are speaking with a forked tongue.
not a secular state is the opposite of Israel can really be secular because

I believe this is called double speak; a con artists tool of choice

in my opinion

Patently insane.

 

[rylah]

Pre Mandate:

Israel:

 

[watchingfromafar]

I want t call it the Land of Israel, for me it's my grand grand father's land, and has been so for millenias.

Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

Promised Land
“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the promised land of Israel spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly.

Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan running along the eastern shore of the Dead Sea. In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.

The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King Omri of Israel. Their capital was Dibon, located next to the modern Jordanian town of Dhiban.”
Moab - New World Encyclopedia

From there they moved to Egypt

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

Based on the above the “Promised Land” is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.

Then the question that needs to be asked---

Why does the Israeli’s call the land they live on today their ancestral land?

 

[watchingfromafar]

Patently insane.

I agree but factually true

 

[Sixties Fan]

I want t call it the Land of Israel, for me it's my grand grand father's land, and has been so for millenias.

Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

Promised Land
“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the promised land of Israel spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly.

Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan running along the eastern shore of the Dead Sea. In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.

The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King Omri of Israel. Their capital was Dibon, located next to the modern Jordanian town of Dhiban.”
Moab - New World Encyclopedia

From there they moved to Egypt

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

Based on the above the “Promised Land” is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wonderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.

Then the question that needs to be asked---

Why does the Israeli’s call the land they live on today their ancestral land?

You seem to have clearly missed all the history post the Exodus from Egypt where the Nation of Israel was created ON what became known as the Land of Israel for about 3000 years from King David on.

At some point the Children of Israel stopped being nomadic and settled on the land promised to Abraham.

At no time the children of Israel regarded Egypt as their homeland, ancestral or otherwise. They went there as a need because of the drought and other reasons, then became enslaved by the Egyptian Pharaoh .

The question which you should be asking yourself is:

Why do you take away the ancestral homeland of the Jews from them. What is the purpose of delegitimizing their ancestry and where they had actually come from?

No other people is put through this amazing charade of "Oh, they do not really come from there, do they? "

There is cultural, historical, anthropological, and archeological evidence of the Jewish ancestral existence on the land.

Thank you.

 

[watchingfromafar]

You seem to have clearly missed all the history post the Exodus from Egypt

No, I did not. At that time Joseph was the Ruler over Egypt second only to the Pharaoh and “all” the Jews had moved to Egypt and were prospering and multiplying. All was fine until Moses does the following-----

Moses Kills an Egyptian

11And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

12And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

13And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest thou thy fellow?

14And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.

15Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

Exodus 2 KJV

Moses and all his followers flee Egypt marking the time of the great Exodus.

In my view

 

[Shusha]

Is the land of “Israel” their true ancient homeland?

Why is it that no one asks this question of Japan or Korea or Scotland? Israel is just as obviously the territory where the Jewish people's culture, religion, language originated and developed as is those other peoples in their territory.

The very asking of the question reveals the double standard.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You seem to have clearly missed all the history post the Exodus from Egypt

No, I did not. At that time Joseph was the Ruler over Egypt second only to the Pharaoh and “all” the Jews had moved to Egypt and were prospering and multiplying. All was fine until Moses does the following-----

Moses Kills an Egyptian

11And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

12And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

13And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest thou thy fellow?

14And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.

15Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

Exodus 2 KJV

Moses and all his followers flee Egypt marking the time of the great Exodus.

In my view

I see. In your world, or at least the book you read, or the preacher you heard this from - Joseph and Moses lived at the same time, and at the time Moses was born, which was in the same century and the same decade - the Children of Israel had not already been put into servitude as slaves and kept from leaving Egypt.

Thank you again.

 

[Shusha]

Sixties Fan, rylah

Don't you just love it when Christians inform Jews what Jewish holy texts REALLY say?!

 

[watchingfromafar]

One thing I have learned is that you bury your great leaders in their own land to protect the graves from being molested

Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried." "I will do as you say," he said. ;

Genesis 50:14 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.

Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried." "I will do as you say," he said. ;

Genesis 49:31 There Abraham and his wife Sarah were buried, there Isaac and his wife Rebekah were buried, and there I buried Leah.

Genesis 50:10 And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, which is beyond Jordan, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation:

Genesis 50:14 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.

Genesis 50:14 After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father.

You bury your great leaders in your own homeland

Which Is Not the land falsely called “Israel” today

The truth will set you free

 

[Sixties Fan]

One thing I have learned is that you bury your great leaders in their own land to protect the graves from being molested

Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried." "I will do as you say," he said. ;

Genesis 50:14 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.

Genesis 25:9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite,

Genesis 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me [ Israel ] where they are buried." "I will do as you say," he said. ;

Genesis 49:31 There Abraham and his wife Sarah were buried, there Isaac and his wife Rebekah were buried, and there I buried Leah.

Genesis 50:10 And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, which is beyond Jordan, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation:

Genesis 50:14 For his sons carried him [ Israel ] into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.

Genesis 50:14 After burying his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, together with his brothers and all the others who had gone with him to bury his father.

You bury your great leaders in your own homeland

Which Is Not the land falsely called “Israel” today

The truth will set you free

Just another bit of nonsense you have learned from your church leaders.

I would ask for your money back, or your time back and stop annoying the Jewish People with your leaders infantile ideas on how to steal the Jewish Land from the Jewish people.

The truth about the Jewish indigenous reality to the Land of Israel brings you pain, it is your pain to deal with.

 

[watchingfromafar]

the Children of Israel had not already been put into servitude as slaves and kept from leaving Egypt.

Maybe this is where the Egyptians got the labor force needed to build the Pyramid’s and to show their gratitude Joseph was laid down in one of them.

If so I bet it was the smallest pyramid.

dis-clamor: I am just guessing

 

[Sixties Fan]

the Children of Israel had not already been put into servitude as slaves and kept from leaving Egypt.

Maybe this is where the Egyptians got the labor force needed to build the Pyramid’s and to show their gratitude Joseph was laid down in one of them.

If so I bet it was the smallest pyramid.

dis-clamor: I am just guessing

Who cares what you are "guessing" or not "guessing"

It was never of your business and never will be.

Mind your own ancestors whereabouts for a change.

 

[watchingfromafar]

stop annoying the Jewish People with your leaders infantile ideas on how to steal the Jewish Land from the Jewish people.

I am doing no such thing. There was a Jewish land, it just wasn't the land falsely claimed today as "Israel".

 

[watchingfromafar]

Mind your own ancestors whereabouts for a change.

I am jewish

 

[Sixties Fan]

stop annoying the Jewish People with your leaders infantile ideas on how to steal the Jewish Land from the Jewish people.

I am doing no such thing. There was a Jewish land, it just wasn't the land falsely claimed today as "Israel".

You are a nut case who does not want the Jews to have their ancestral land. Period.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Mind your own ancestors whereabouts for a change.

I am jewish

NEVER under any sky, in Egypt, in Mesopotamia, in Phoenicia, in TranJordan, in Syria, in Iran, in Europe or anywhere else in the world - you would be Jewish.