The Occupy Wall Street Movement is WORKING!!!

[Seawytch]

The RW can demonize the OWS all they want to, but when you have people like Cantor and Ryan suddenly talking about income inequality, you know that the message is resonating AND that the corporatists are scared.

 

[Jarhead]

The RW can demonize the OWS all they want to, but when you have people like Cantor and Ryan suddenly talking about income inequality, you know that the message is resonating AND that the corporatists are scared.

Interesting....one thread on OWS talks about the message being "income equality" and another OWS thread talks about the message being "corporations not controlling washington"

 

[Chris]

The RW can demonize the OWS all they want to, but when you have people like Cantor and Ryan suddenly talking about income inequality, you know that the message is resonating AND that the corporatists are scared.

Interesting....one thread on OWS talks about the message being "income equality" and another OWS thread talks about the message being "corporations not controlling washington"

They go hand in hand.

OWS has changed the dialogue to what is should be.

There is a tidal shift occuring in American politics.

The Republicans have run out of bullets. Their bullshit won't fly anymore.

 

[The Rabbi]

The RW can demonize the OWS all they want to, but when you have people like Cantor and Ryan suddenly talking about income inequality, you know that the message is resonating AND that the corporatists are scared.

Interesting....one thread on OWS talks about the message being "income equality" and another OWS thread talks about the message being "corporations not controlling washington"

They go hand in hand.

OWS has changed the dialogue to what is should be.

There is a tidal shift occuring in American politics.

The Republicans have run out of bullets. Their bullshit won't fly anymore.

So you're saying the Democrats have hijacked the OWS movement? That makes sense, given the union involvement and other orgs.
Of course now that they are rioting they are losing whatever sympathy they may have enjoyed with average voting Americans.

 

[Chris]

Interesting....one thread on OWS talks about the message being "income equality" and another OWS thread talks about the message being "corporations not controlling washington"

They go hand in hand.

OWS has changed the dialogue to what is should be.

There is a tidal shift occuring in American politics.

The Republicans have run out of bullets. Their bullshit won't fly anymore.

So you're saying the Democrats have hijacked the OWS movement? That makes sense, given the union involvement and other orgs.
Of course now that they are rioting they are losing whatever sympathy they may have enjoyed with average voting Americans.

I know it will be troubling to you, but you have now lost the dialogue and the next election.

Thanks to these brave souls the focus is now where it belongs, on the corrupting influence of big money on American politics.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Interesting....one thread on OWS talks about the message being "income equality" and another OWS thread talks about the message being "corporations not controlling washington"

They go hand in hand.

OWS has changed the dialogue to what is should be.

There is a tidal shift occuring in American politics.

The Republicans have run out of bullets. Their bullshit won't fly anymore.

So you're saying the Democrats have hijacked the OWS movement? That makes sense, given the union involvement and other orgs.
Of course now that they are rioting they are losing whatever sympathy they may have enjoyed with average voting Americans.

"So you're saying..."; why the need to spin his words? Nowhere in his post did he mentioned Democrats or unions, you intrude your agenda in a very strange manner. Say what you believe and those of us who disagree will tell you what we think.

 

[frazzledgear]

Whatever or whoever started it is irrelevant, IMO.

Then your opinion is not only wrong, you are being dishonest with yourself. When a boycott is organized (which is what this was), and the boycott succeeds in changing behavior, to say that the organizers of the boycott had nothing to do with it is absurd.

You wouldn't even make such a claim in any other circumstance.

CAPITALISM and the MARKET were used to make the change. The exact same things OWS is protesting against.

Irony.

"Capitalism and the market" are NOT what Occupy is protesting against. Corruption of government by corporate money, excessive inequality, and the declining middle class are what Occupy is protesting against.

Only a minority of Occupy participants, probably a small minority, are socialists. Most are believers in capitalism, believing that with proper oversight by a non-corrupt government it can work for the people.

There is nothing ironic about this in the least.

Better they protest the corruption of the free market by government which is the far worse issue here.

Businesses and corporations can't buy the UNFAIR advantages government will give them over others that otherwise would not exist in the free market at all - unless elected career politicians are SELLING IT. Its like I said the squatters are SO ignorant of the real world and what is REALLY happening - they are looking in the wrong place entirely when trying to afix blame. In reality they are assisting those responsible for it and giving them permission for even greater abuses of power. Our government is NOT the helpless hannah here that big, bad business took advantage of -it is the GUILTY PARTY and INSTIGATOR!

Which is the REAL problem and which is the far, far greater problem here? Corporations in the land with THE highest corporate income tax in the entire world that makes doing business just about anywhere else but here more inviting and end up taking up the offers of filthy politicians willing to sell them massive, unfair advantages over their competitors in the marketplace? All courtesy of taxpayers of course. Or the filthy, career politicians selling off our government to the highest bidder? I don't blame those who take them up on it near as much as I do those who are selling it off. It requires the existence of the filth in government -and it is that filth that needs to be removed. Instead those squatting and shitting on the sidewalk at Wall Street are blaming the wrong entities here and are intent on REWARDING the filth in government, demanding they TAKE even greater powers to themselves so it is even easier for them to sell off our government to the highest bidders and those willing to pay to play. Oh SURE, that will fix the problem...

This is what the squatters don't get -human nature. You can't just demand the entire species stop being what they are. Human beings operate in their own self interest first and that will never change. There is nothing wrong with self interest -it is necessary to provide for oneself and one's family! Every living creature is motivated first by self interest -or they die! It IS grounded in the survival instinct and if you are hoping to breed that out of people, don't hold your breath -never going to happen. A survival instinct means self interest and that means human beings will nearly always act in their own self interests first and foremost (that includes the self interest of their family too). A species cannot survive with that. The solution is not to pretend those humans are "evil" for being human -but to limit the ability for the PERVERSION of that self interest. And those you limit the most stringently are those in a position of power to pervert it! NOT give them expanded powers which only increases the likelihood of corruption! POWER CORRUPTS so the answer to a corrupt system is never going to be "give the corrupt even more power", is it? Unless you are ignorant, poorly educated and too immature to understand how the world works. The rest of us must refuse to suffer for that ignorance, poor education and immaturity though. THIS is the real world -and in the real world, those with the least knowledge, least wisdom which can only come with experience, the least character and least patience -are rarely going to have the best answers either since they lack what is needed for SERIOUS solutions. Sitting, squatting, mindlessly chanting and beating a makeshift drum and shitting on the sidewalk is about all they can come up with. Which is why instead of protesting against those who hold the REAL POWER and those who were and are the REAL perverters and abusers of power -are protesting against the weak who took them up on it! In the meantime the true abusers use it as an excuse and justification to grab MORE power they can pervert and abuse! With the full blessing of the IGNORANT, POORLY EDUCATED who lack real world experience and totally lack any wisdom. Do you know what game plan this is actually following when the powerful abuse their powers and then use the fact it happened as justification to take even MORE power? Any clue? Never did much studying of history? Because we ended up in a world war the last time this one played out.

If you think those squatters aren't protesting against the system, aren't protesting against capitalism and the free market -I suggest you take a closer look at their signs. Sign after sign -tell us all what they say, ok? Who do they depict as their heroes and those they want this country to emulate? Their heroes are mass murderers and those willing to slaughter their own citizens by the millions in order to forcefully grab and forcefully cling to power in order to FORCE all people to exist as THEY demand. They admire people who value their political agenda above human life itself. But people who do that should never be allowed a scintilla of power because they are nothing but THUGS. And that is who these immature people admire in the world -mass murdering THUGS. These people haven't a clue what real freedom even is and therefore place no real value on it either. Or yours, or mine. But are totally willing to not only sell off their own at a dirt cheap price -but yours, mine and that of our children. It isn't theirs to sell at all.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The RW can demonize the OWS all they want to, but when you have people like Cantor and Ryan suddenly talking about income inequality, you know that the message is resonating AND that the corporatists are scared.

Replace RW with LW and OWS with TEA and income inequality with too much govt spending and welcome to 1.5 years ago

 

[Seawytch]

The RW can demonize the OWS all they want to, but when you have people like Cantor and Ryan suddenly talking about income inequality, you know that the message is resonating AND that the corporatists are scared.

Replace RW with LW and OWS with TEA and income inequality with too much govt spending and welcome to 1.5 years ago

It was a lot longer ago than that when the goals of the TP and OWS were similar. It was before the TP got taken over by the far right wing of the GOP and co-opted by Freedom Works. The TP was originally protesting "too big to fail" before President Obama took office.

 

[Jarhead]

They go hand in hand.

OWS has changed the dialogue to what is should be.

There is a tidal shift occuring in American politics.

The Republicans have run out of bullets. Their bullshit won't fly anymore.

So you're saying the Democrats have hijacked the OWS movement? That makes sense, given the union involvement and other orgs.
Of course now that they are rioting they are losing whatever sympathy they may have enjoyed with average voting Americans.

I know it will be troubling to you, but you have now lost the dialogue and the next election.

Thanks to these brave souls the focus is now where it belongs, on the corrupting influence of big money on American politics.

Is it corrupt to give large donations and hope for favors in return...

or...

Is it corrupt to take large donations and give favors in return?

 

[Jarhead]

They go hand in hand.

OWS has changed the dialogue to what is should be.

There is a tidal shift occuring in American politics.

The Republicans have run out of bullets. Their bullshit won't fly anymore.

So you're saying the Democrats have hijacked the OWS movement? That makes sense, given the union involvement and other orgs.
Of course now that they are rioting they are losing whatever sympathy they may have enjoyed with average voting Americans.

I know it will be troubling to you, but you have now lost the dialogue and the next election.

Thanks to these brave souls the focus is now where it belongs, on the corrupting influence of big money on American politics.

you see, that is where you and I differ...and not to sound insulting but I am one that believes in personal responsibility...I never blame anyone for my actions or the result of my actions.

You however....you seem to blame the corporations for the actions of congress.....why? COngress is to blame for allowing corporate money to dictate their decision making. How can you blame the corporations?

If congress didnt take the money, the corporations have no influence....

 

[Zoom-boing]

So you're saying the Democrats have hijacked the OWS movement? That makes sense, given the union involvement and other orgs.
Of course now that they are rioting they are losing whatever sympathy they may have enjoyed with average voting Americans.

I know it will be troubling to you, but you have now lost the dialogue and the next election.

Thanks to these brave souls the focus is now where it belongs, on the corrupting influence of big money on American politics.

you see, that is where you and I differ...and not to sound insulting but I am one that believes in personal responsibility...I never blame anyone for my actions or the result of my actions.

You however....you seem to blame the corporations for the actions of congress.....why? COngress is to blame for allowing corporate money to dictate their decision making. How can you blame the corporations?

If congress didnt take the money, the corporations have no influence....

You know I asked a similar question in a few other threads and never got a reply.

Why isn't the OWeS crowd all over government for being corrupt enough to take the money in the first place? I've read one or two posters say that OWeS is angry with government . . . and yet the crowds are all protesting Wall Street and greedy corps.

 

[Seawytch]

So you're saying the Democrats have hijacked the OWS movement? That makes sense, given the union involvement and other orgs.
Of course now that they are rioting they are losing whatever sympathy they may have enjoyed with average voting Americans.

I know it will be troubling to you, but you have now lost the dialogue and the next election.

Thanks to these brave souls the focus is now where it belongs, on the corrupting influence of big money on American politics.

Is it corrupt to give large donations and hope for favors in return...

or...

Is it corrupt to take large donations and give favors in return?

Yes

 

[MarcATL]

Oh, ok, so their goal was not to improve the lives of the 99% but to deflect from the very real issues to a socialist agenda. And there was me beginning to believe the 'their not puppets for Soros'.

Your lies, deceit and dishonesty knows no bound.

You always have and will continue to believe that Soros is behind this and everything else you disagree with. You loony HACK!!!

 

[Dragon]

COngress is to blame for allowing corporate money to dictate their decision making. How can you blame the corporations?

If congress didnt take the money, the corporations have no influence....

It's an interesting situation. The problem here with assigning blame is that neither "Congress" nor "the corporations" exists as a decision-maker. Individual Congresscritters and individual businesses do. As do the Congresscritters' political opponents.

If you were a Congressman, and you were faced with a reelection challenge next year, you would need to raise a lot of money in order to campaign effectively. If you chose not to take corporate donations, you would put yourself at a severe disadvantage and likely be replaced by your better-funded challenger.

At the same time, if you are a business with the means to maintain lobbying efforts on K Street, and you choose not to out of principle, you will lose out on government largesse accrued by your competitors and/or other industries, and suffer accordingly.

Thus, no individual on either end of the process can properly be "blamed." At the same time, though, blame is something our primitive little mammal brains insist on, so focusing ire on big business is still a useful political tool. Not because it's logical (see above), but simply because we tend to one of two illogical responses, anti-big-business or pro-big-business, as is natural (again, due to our primitive mammal brains) regarding anything with power.

 

[Jarhead]

I know it will be troubling to you, but you have now lost the dialogue and the next election.

Thanks to these brave souls the focus is now where it belongs, on the corrupting influence of big money on American politics.

Is it corrupt to give large donations and hope for favors in return...

or...

Is it corrupt to take large donations and give favors in return?

Yes

one is legal and the other is illegal....but lets just say you are correct and both are equally corrupt...

Is it wiser to force the one who is NOT breaking the law to make changes or is it wiser to force the one who IS breaking the law to make changes?

Or...how about this....

Do you support the idea of having our government control privately owned corporate money so the corporate money is not used inappropriately by the elected and tax payewr paid members of our government?

 

[Jarhead]

COngress is to blame for allowing corporate money to dictate their decision making. How can you blame the corporations?

If congress didnt take the money, the corporations have no influence....

It's an interesting situation. The problem here with assigning blame is that neither "Congress" nor "the corporations" exists as a decision-maker. Individual Congresscritters and individual businesses do. As do the Congresscritters' political opponents.

If you were a Congressman, and you were faced with a reelection challenge next year, you would need to raise a lot of money in order to campaign effectively. If you chose not to take corporate donations, you would put yourself at a severe disadvantage and likely be replaced by your better-funded challenger.

At the same time, if you are a business with the means to maintain lobbying efforts on K Street, and you choose not to out of principle, you will lose out on government largesse accrued by your competitors and/or other industries, and suffer accordingly.

Thus, no individual on either end of the process can properly be "blamed." At the same time, though, blame is something our primitive little mammal brains insist on, so focusing ire on big business is still a useful political tool. Not because it's logical (see above), but simply because we tend to one of two illogical responses, anti-big-business or pro-big-business, as is natural (again, due to our primitive mammal brains) regarding anything with power.

So why is there an effort to go after the ones who are not breaking the law nor are they doing anything inappropriate? They are donating money...the reasons they are donating the money is irrelevant.

Why not go after the ones who we are supposed to trust becuase they are our employees yet they are allowing their own greed to dictate their decisioon making?

 

[kwc57]

Since the OWS movement has started, the conversation has shifted from the debt and deficit to JOBS and income inequality. Even the unctuous little twerp, Eric Cantor and the Budget Munster, Paul Ryan have been discussing income inequality. That can only be seen as a victory for the OWS movement.

Another victory for OWS comes from Bank of America who have decided NOT to charge people a ridiculous fee for using their debit cards.

Keep the pressure on!!!

BoA changed their minds due to OWES? Link?

Do you honestly believe it wasn't a factor? Really?

Bank of America fee retraction shows effect of consumer rage

Our local OWS folks are a block from my office. I can assure you that most don't have a bank account and the ones who do don't have much in them. And they seem to be fairly representative of what I've seen around the country. In short, they are not consumers of BoA and had no impact.

 

[Dragon]

So why is there an effort to go after the ones who are not breaking the law nor are they doing anything inappropriate? They are donating money...the reasons they are donating the money is irrelevant.

Why not go after the ones who we are supposed to trust becuase they are our employees yet they are allowing their own greed to dictate their decisioon making?

I know it's difficult to get your mind around this, but this IS aimed at the government. The action that would meet the requirements is for the government to act to get corporate money out of the electoral process. Everything else follows from there.

However, I disagree that corporations are "not doing anything inappropriate." They are not doing anything that shouldn't be expected, but that's not the same thing. The reality is that business sinks to whatever level of depravity the law allows, because that's a competitive necessity. If you're more scrupulous than your competition, your competition will bury you -- unless the law makes breaking that particular scruple illegal and thus unprofitable.

If businesses were allowed by law to hire assassins and try to murder their competitors, they would do it. Not because all businesspeople are murderers at heart, but because those who are would have a significant advantage over their (late) competitors. We see exactly that happening in the illegal drug industry, which operates outside the law because the entire enterprise is illegal.

So yes, corporations are definitely doing something inappropriate. But the solution is to make this inappropriate behavior illegal, and that requires government action.

 

[Bil_Stunbmun]

I'm proud to say that I've never held a paying job in my life.

Most of my fellow 99 proof friends agree with my philosophy.