nice... so go over there, pull some covert shit, they publicly retaliate (blowback) and now all out war is justified?
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The Nature of "Islamic" Terrorism
- Thread starter Saladin
- Start date
nice... so go over there, pull some covert shit, they publicly retaliate (blowback) and now all out war is justified?
Charles Stucker
Senior Member
- Oct 13, 2009
- 2,071
- 226
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The only "covert shit" (sic) the US should be engaged in is information gathering to determine if anyone is planning to attack the USA.nice... so go over there, pull some covert shit, they publicly retaliate (blowback) and now all out war is justified?
Imagine how different Pearl Harbor would have been if the US had used the intel well and the Japanese had been given an escort of American ships starting two days before they were in range of Pearl.
You think they might have called off the attack?
Kalam
Senior Member
- Mar 5, 2009
- 8,866
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Here you are:Oddly, I cannot find any source to support your claim that any Saudi Aid went to China, Madagascar, or Rwanda.
http://www.hipc-cbp.org/files/en/open/Guide_to_Donors/Saudi_Fund_30_04_08.pdf
Indeed, a "rescue" that was spurred into fruition after a mere 200,000 Muslims had already been killed. The case in Rwanda was not isolated; the safest place to be during the genocide was in a Muslim neighborhood or a mosque, which the Hutu militiamen believed were filled with demons. If I recall correctly, the only incident in which people were killed inside of a mosque occurred when the Interhamwe were forced to bring in a machine gun to kill Muslims who had been attacking them with rocks, bows and arrows, etc.Ok, outside Rwanda, where, no doubt Al Jezera finally found A Muslim that sheltered A Non-Muslim, Muslims don't give a flip about protecting the oppressed.
I cannot help to be astonished that you would even offer such a weak example of Islamic Protection of The Oppressed Non-Muslim in light of the Western Rescue of Bosnia from Serbs.
Shit, Al Jazera must be desperate.
Do you prefer a different source?
Islam Attracting Many Survivors of Rwanda Genocide (washingtonpost.com)
Ten Years After Horror, Rwandans Turn to Islam - NYTimes.com
BBC NEWS | Africa | Rwanda's religious reflections
Kalam
Senior Member
- Mar 5, 2009
- 8,866
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Yes, and you seem to be advocating the same thing.So the Islamic terrorists are guilty of genocide?
FIRST
Kalam, I don't think you're leading me out of any ill intent, but the information in your sources simply does not support your claims. It was very difficult to navigate the convolutions described in the Suadi Fund for Development document, but I was finally able to understand:
It describes loans to countries with which Suadi Arabia wants to develop ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Yemen was the major recipient of the LOANS
China was the second largest recipient of the LOANS
This is not Foreign Aid any more than Visa or Master Card is Foreign Aid.
SECOND
I don't mind the Al Jezera Report being used as a source.
My point is that it actually highlights the fact that Islam does almost nothing to assist oppressed non-muslims. Comparing the West's commitment to rescue millions of Bosnian Muslims from Christian Serbs, the good actions of ONE Rwandan Imam to save a few Christians seems ridiculous.
Kalam, I don't think you're leading me out of any ill intent, but the information in your sources simply does not support your claims. It was very difficult to navigate the convolutions described in the Suadi Fund for Development document, but I was finally able to understand:
It describes loans to countries with which Suadi Arabia wants to develop ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Since April 1999, the SFD has been using the Saudi Exports Programme to finance the loan, surety and insurance operations of Saudi non-oil export commodities. This programme also finances operations linked to foreigners (both private and public entities), wishing to import Saudi goods and services.
Yemen was the major recipient of the LOANS
China was the second largest recipient of the LOANS
This is not Foreign Aid any more than Visa or Master Card is Foreign Aid.
SECOND
I don't mind the Al Jezera Report being used as a source.
My point is that it actually highlights the fact that Islam does almost nothing to assist oppressed non-muslims. Comparing the West's commitment to rescue millions of Bosnian Muslims from Christian Serbs, the good actions of ONE Rwandan Imam to save a few Christians seems ridiculous.
Kalam
Senior Member
- Mar 5, 2009
- 8,866
- 785
- 48
In that case, I hope you'll forgive me for looking through the report so cursorily. It should be noted that Saudi Arabia collects no interest on its loans. That's my presumption, at least, because otherwise Saudi Arabia would be in manifest error even according to the half-witted debasement of Islam that they follow.FIRST
Kalam, I don't think you're leading me out of any ill intent, but the information in your sources simply does not support your claims. It was very difficult to navigate the convolutions described in the Suadi Fund for Development document, but I was finally able to understand:
It describes loans to countries with which Suadi Arabia wants to develop ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Since April 1999, the SFD has been using the Saudi Exports Programme to finance the loan, surety and insurance operations of Saudi non-oil export commodities. This programme also finances operations linked to foreigners (both private and public entities), wishing to import Saudi goods and services.
Yemen was the major recipient of the LOANS
China was the second largest recipient of the LOANS
This is not Foreign Aid any more than Visa or Master Card is Foreign Aid.
The phenomenon was not confined to a single imam or mosque. I was not attempting to draw any comparison to others' actions; I was merely responding to the contention that Muslims do nothing to help others.I don't mind the Al Jezera Report being used as a source.
My point is that it actually highlights the fact that Islam does almost nothing to assist oppressed non-muslims. Comparing the West's commitment to rescue millions of Bosnian Muslims from Christian Serbs, the good actions of ONE Rwandan Imam to save a few Christians seems ridiculous.
U.S. Muslims pledge $10 million for hurricane relief
Major American Islamic groups form task force to coordinate humanitarian aid
CHICAGO, IL, Sept. 4, 2005 – A coalition of major American Islamic groups meeting at the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) in Chicago today announced a pledge to raise $10 million in humanitarian relief for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
The coalition also announced the formation of a Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force (MHRTF) to coordinate the aid effort. MHRTF members include (in alphabetical order) Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Islamic Circle of North American (ICNA), Islamic Relief, ISNA, Kind Hearts, Life for Relief and Development, Muslim Alliance in North America (MANA), Muslim American Society (MAS), Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC), and Muslim Ummah of North American (MUNA).
Other groups who agree to the task force’s guidelines will be added as the relief efforts develop. MHRTF guidelines for collection and distribution of funds will focus on financial transparency and accountability as set forth in relevant government regulations and standards. No proselytizing of hurricane victims will be allowed by any member of the task force.
“It is a national and Islamic obligation to assist one’s neighbors when they are in need,” said ISNA Secretary General Sayyid Syeed. “The American Muslim community pledges to do its part in helping those Americans, of all faiths, who suffered such great losses in lives and property.”
More than $2 million in hurricane aid has already been disbursed by Islamic charities. Muslim relief workers are currently on the ground in Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, and Mississippi.
September 11, 2005
Muslim groups help Katrina victims on 9/11 anniversary
HOUSTON, Texas -- About 2,000 Muslim volunteers helped victims of Hurricane Katrina at the city's downtown convention center Sunday, the fourth anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks.
Muslim leaders from around the country who were in Houston for the volunteer effort said the anniversary was coincidental. But they welcomed the opportunity to highlight their faith's true meaning.
"We're not trying to prove anything, other than what our faith requires us to do," said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based Muslim American Society. "What goes with our faith is to help others, to respond and show compassion when people need it, and I'm glad we can do it."
Parvez Ahmed, chairman of the board of the nonprofit Council on American-Islamic Relations, said Muslim leaders viewed Sunday's volunteer opportunity as another chance to show that the September 11 attacks were carried out by Islamic extremists who do not represent the true meaning of their faith.
Religious and community groups who volunteered to help at shelters picked through a random drawing what day they would work. Houston's Muslim community got Sunday.
"If today not only happens to be a day where we are feeding people and helping people and doing our Islamic duties ... but at the same time it also presents an opportunity to dispel myths about Islam and terrorism, then so be it," Ahmed said.
CAIR, along with other Muslim groups such as Islamic Relief and the Muslim American Society, are part of the Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force, which is raising $10 million for victims of Katrina. Ahmed said the groups so far have raised between $3 million and $4 million……(Media Repors)
Muslim world donations for Katrina victims
Muslim countries have pledged donations of more than one billion dollars for the relief efforts of devastation caused by the hurricane Katrina in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana.
The total amount of Muslim's donations is one billion and 55 millions and 600 thousands dollars ($1,055,0600,000) as per following detail:
* Kuwait: $500 millions ($400 millions in oil, $100 million cash)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9187260/
* Saudi Arabia $255 million
* Qatar $100 million
* Libya $100 million
* Egypt $30 millions plus other aid
* Algeria $30 million
* Tunisia $10 million
* US - Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force (MHRTF) pledge $10 million
*Jordan $5 millions plus other aid
* Syria $5 million
* Morocco $5 million
* Bahrain $5 million
* Lebanon $2 million
* Pakistan $1 million
* Bangladesh $1 million
* Azerbaijan: $500,000
* Afghanistan $100,000
Major American Islamic groups form task force to coordinate humanitarian aid
CHICAGO, IL, Sept. 4, 2005 – A coalition of major American Islamic groups meeting at the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) in Chicago today announced a pledge to raise $10 million in humanitarian relief for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
The coalition also announced the formation of a Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force (MHRTF) to coordinate the aid effort. MHRTF members include (in alphabetical order) Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Islamic Circle of North American (ICNA), Islamic Relief, ISNA, Kind Hearts, Life for Relief and Development, Muslim Alliance in North America (MANA), Muslim American Society (MAS), Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC), and Muslim Ummah of North American (MUNA).
Other groups who agree to the task force’s guidelines will be added as the relief efforts develop. MHRTF guidelines for collection and distribution of funds will focus on financial transparency and accountability as set forth in relevant government regulations and standards. No proselytizing of hurricane victims will be allowed by any member of the task force.
“It is a national and Islamic obligation to assist one’s neighbors when they are in need,” said ISNA Secretary General Sayyid Syeed. “The American Muslim community pledges to do its part in helping those Americans, of all faiths, who suffered such great losses in lives and property.”
More than $2 million in hurricane aid has already been disbursed by Islamic charities. Muslim relief workers are currently on the ground in Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, and Mississippi.
September 11, 2005
Muslim groups help Katrina victims on 9/11 anniversary
HOUSTON, Texas -- About 2,000 Muslim volunteers helped victims of Hurricane Katrina at the city's downtown convention center Sunday, the fourth anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks.
Muslim leaders from around the country who were in Houston for the volunteer effort said the anniversary was coincidental. But they welcomed the opportunity to highlight their faith's true meaning.
"We're not trying to prove anything, other than what our faith requires us to do," said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based Muslim American Society. "What goes with our faith is to help others, to respond and show compassion when people need it, and I'm glad we can do it."
Parvez Ahmed, chairman of the board of the nonprofit Council on American-Islamic Relations, said Muslim leaders viewed Sunday's volunteer opportunity as another chance to show that the September 11 attacks were carried out by Islamic extremists who do not represent the true meaning of their faith.
Religious and community groups who volunteered to help at shelters picked through a random drawing what day they would work. Houston's Muslim community got Sunday.
"If today not only happens to be a day where we are feeding people and helping people and doing our Islamic duties ... but at the same time it also presents an opportunity to dispel myths about Islam and terrorism, then so be it," Ahmed said.
CAIR, along with other Muslim groups such as Islamic Relief and the Muslim American Society, are part of the Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force, which is raising $10 million for victims of Katrina. Ahmed said the groups so far have raised between $3 million and $4 million……(Media Repors)
Muslim world donations for Katrina victims
Muslim countries have pledged donations of more than one billion dollars for the relief efforts of devastation caused by the hurricane Katrina in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana.
The total amount of Muslim's donations is one billion and 55 millions and 600 thousands dollars ($1,055,0600,000) as per following detail:
* Kuwait: $500 millions ($400 millions in oil, $100 million cash)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9187260/
* Saudi Arabia $255 million
* Qatar $100 million
* Libya $100 million
* Egypt $30 millions plus other aid
* Algeria $30 million
* Tunisia $10 million
* US - Muslim Hurricane Relief Task Force (MHRTF) pledge $10 million
*Jordan $5 millions plus other aid
* Syria $5 million
* Morocco $5 million
* Bahrain $5 million
* Lebanon $2 million
* Pakistan $1 million
* Bangladesh $1 million
* Azerbaijan: $500,000
* Afghanistan $100,000
Last edited:
In that case, I hope you'll forgive me for looking through the report so cursorily. It should be noted that Saudi Arabia collects no interest on its loans. That's my presumption, at least, because otherwise Saudi Arabia would be in manifest error even according to the half-witted debasement of Islam that they follow.FIRST
Kalam, I don't think you're leading me out of any ill intent, but the information in your sources simply does not support your claims. It was very difficult to navigate the convolutions described in the Suadi Fund for Development document, but I was finally able to understand:
It describes loans to countries with which Suadi Arabia wants to develop ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Since April 1999, the SFD has been using the Saudi Exports Programme to finance the loan, surety and insurance operations of Saudi non-oil export commodities. This programme also finances operations linked to foreigners (both private and public entities), wishing to import Saudi goods and services.
Yemen was the major recipient of the LOANS
China was the second largest recipient of the LOANS
This is not Foreign Aid any more than Visa or Master Card is Foreign Aid.
The phenomenon was not confined to a single imam or mosque. I was not attempting to draw any comparison to others' actions; I was merely responding to the contention that Muslims do nothing to help others.I don't mind the Al Jezera Report being used as a source.
My point is that it actually highlights the fact that Islam does almost nothing to assist oppressed non-muslims. Comparing the West's commitment to rescue millions of Bosnian Muslims from Christian Serbs, the good actions of ONE Rwandan Imam to save a few Christians seems ridiculous.
No problem: I was as confused as I imagine anyone would be with the report (my guess it may have been translated into English from Arabic or French)
I'll agree that Muslims do VERY LITTLE to Defend Non-Muslims from Oppression.
U.S. Muslims pledge $10 million for hurricane relief
Major American Islamic groups form task force to coordinate humanitarian aid
Its great when Americans Help Americans. But the report that pledges were made, and task forces were formed, is not evidence that anything actually happened. I'm somewhat astonished there wouldn't be any record of anything more than this actually arriving in New Orleans to Aid Katrina Victims for the past 5 years.
Muslim world donations for Katrina victims
Muslim countries have pledged donations of more than one billion dollars for the relief efforts of devastation caused by the hurricane Katrina in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana.
The total amount of Muslim's donations is one billion and 55 millions and 600 thousands dollars ($1,055,0600,000) as per following detail:
You gotta fucking be kidding, right?
"edmooz" the Bahrainian Blogger?????
I tried to go to a random sampling of the links. None worked.
WOW........about $500,000 to purchase rice for non-Muslim Cambodians. Yes, Islam is generous....TO MUSLIMS.
Yes, outside of Islam, Muslims don't give a flip about "the oppressed."
Don't have actual numbers, but between 2004-2007 (4 years), Turkey gave 5.2 Billion $ in aid:
Hürriyet - -Turkey gives $5 billion aid in four years
Newer numbers i have not.
But in 2007 it was 131 countries receiving aid from Turkey.
Most of the aid is given is more like "implementing" humanitarian projects through TIKA.
.: TIKA :. Turkish International Cooperation & Development Agency
Turkish Red Crescent Society (KIZILAY) is the fourth biggest aid organisation in the world with the second biggest capacity of helping people all around the world. It has 584 functional branches all over Turkey. Kizilay accepts all kinds of donations like food, money, clothes, buildings and welcomes volunteers. This organisation is involved in all kinds of community service projects related with general social welfare issues. For example helping people in disasters, day care centres for children, nursing homes for elderly people, delivering medicine and food support to people with no social security, first aid, HIV/AIDS training, youth and health camps etc.
Turkey | EIL Intercultural Learning
The Turkish Red Crescent has authority up to the year 2064 to utilize the water ressources of Province Afyonkarahisar.
It has established a company "Turkish Red Crescent Mineral Water Enterprises"
The mineral water produced in the mineral water factory which is the first and most modern factory in the Republic of Turkey is being sold throughout Turkey for 82 years and abroad for 8 years; and the excess of the revenues being thus obtained provides serious contributions to the funds which the Turkish red Crescent Society uses for the services of aids and natural disasters..
Turkish Red Crescent Mineral Water Enterprises :: Company Profile
Today, the Turkish Red Crescent Mineral Water Facilities are the biggest mineral water enterprises in our country as well as in the Middle East and the Balkans with its total 110.000 bottles/hour filling capacity so as to be 30.000 returnable bottles/hour filling (classical filling and filling with fruits) and 81.000 non-returnable bottles/hour bottling.
They manage all very professional.
Here some videos:
http://www.kizilaymadensuyu.com.tr/eng/sayfa.php?t=-Videos
The green part is Province Afyonkarahisar. The water comes from there for free till 2064:
It has established a company "Turkish Red Crescent Mineral Water Enterprises"
The mineral water produced in the mineral water factory which is the first and most modern factory in the Republic of Turkey is being sold throughout Turkey for 82 years and abroad for 8 years; and the excess of the revenues being thus obtained provides serious contributions to the funds which the Turkish red Crescent Society uses for the services of aids and natural disasters..
Turkish Red Crescent Mineral Water Enterprises :: Company Profile
Today, the Turkish Red Crescent Mineral Water Facilities are the biggest mineral water enterprises in our country as well as in the Middle East and the Balkans with its total 110.000 bottles/hour filling capacity so as to be 30.000 returnable bottles/hour filling (classical filling and filling with fruits) and 81.000 non-returnable bottles/hour bottling.
They manage all very professional.
Here some videos:
http://www.kizilaymadensuyu.com.tr/eng/sayfa.php?t=-Videos
The green part is Province Afyonkarahisar. The water comes from there for free till 2064:
Last edited:
- Dec 6, 2009
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Islam has turned to terrorism because their religion is outdated. Once the dominant power in the world, since the 15th century it has been sliding into obscurity. To try and make up for their own inadequacies they attack others.
Simple as that.
"Islam has turned to terrorism because their religion is outdated."
What about the PFLP?
- Dec 6, 2009
- 77,717
- 4,169
- 1,815
Oh yeah, what about the IRA, FARC or AIM?
I hear that US Quakers, Jews, and Catholics are on the "terrorist" watch list.
I hear that US Quakers, Jews, and Catholics are on the "terrorist" watch list.
Last edited:
(...)
So, this Islamization of Turkey I hear about is, what, just a misunderstanding? Turkey aligning itself with Iran and Syria is, what, just a joke?
What you hear about comes from certain circles uncomfortable of regional events, meaning that controlling events in this area has become out of their control.
Anyone asking us not to have relations with our natural neighbors is silly, anybody who has a problem with that can kindly go f*ck himself.
So, what are the facts according to these sources?
- In past 7 years Turkish exports to Middle-East have increased 7-fold.
"The Economist" is speaking of QUOTE:
something of the scale and momentum of an invasion, albeit a peaceful one.
Turkey and the Middle East: Looking east and south | The Economist
- Turkish trade with Syria doubled in 2007. Doubled again in 2008. Doubled again in 2009.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/world/middleeast/15syria.html
- Turkey has opened 3rd railway-line to Syria, which will increase export capacity by 125%.
Third railway gate between Turkey-Syria opens [ WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY NEWS, WORLD NEWS ]
This is what the Foreign Minister says:
"Turkey's axis is Ankara and the soil of Anatolia and this will continue to be so. All other areas will be shaped around this axis"
Any debate on Turkey's axis must focus effective foreign policy: FM [ WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY NEWS, WORLD NEWS ]
We only prosper economically if we have markets to export to.
Countries like Iran and Syria are our neighbours. Like USA does trade with Canada we do with them, and that is none of your business.
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