The national debt is 19.3 trillion dollars. How do we fix it?

[M14 Shooter]

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money.

This is, of course, a lie, as you know that it is possible to "fix it" by cutting spending.

 

[OnePercenter]

We fix the debt very easily. We ban all tax expenditures, thus creating about $800 billion in surplus revenues every year.

Then the hard part. How do we spend all that extra cash?

I suggest using some to lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and the rest to pay down the debt. Then, once the debt is paid off, we lower EVERYONE's tax rates even more.

See how easy that is?

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And you dramatically increase the costs everyone pays for things, forcing the federal government to redefine what poverty is, and have yet another massive increase in federal social spending because people's buying power decreases.

Yeah....let's do something that fisking stupid.

And you dramatically increase the costs everyone pays for things, forcing the federal government to redefine what poverty is, and have yet another massive increase in federal social spending because people's buying power decreases.

Yeah....let's do something that fisking stupid.

Here is my plan


-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2016 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 500 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

 

[OnePercenter]

We fix the debt very easily. We ban all tax expenditures, thus creating about $800 billion in surplus revenues every year.

Then the hard part. How do we spend all that extra cash?

I suggest using some to lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and the rest to pay down the debt. Then, once the debt is paid off, we lower EVERYONE's tax rates even more.

See how easy that is?

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And where are those billions hiding right now?

And where are those billions hiding right now?

Being distributed back to the States, albeit disproportionately to red working class poor States like South Carolina (7.8:1)

 

[OnePercenter]

We fix the debt very easily. We ban all tax expenditures, thus creating about $800 billion in surplus revenues every year.

Then the hard part. How do we spend all that extra cash?

I suggest using some to lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and the rest to pay down the debt. Then, once the debt is paid off, we lower EVERYONE's tax rates even more.

See how easy that is?

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And where are those billions hiding right now?

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

Just an understanding that a healthy middle class helps the economy prosper.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

You seem to be the only one here that doesn't, so I'll help.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

 

[9aces]

We fix the debt very easily. We ban all tax expenditures, thus creating about $800 billion in surplus revenues every year.

Then the hard part. How do we spend all that extra cash?

I suggest using some to lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and the rest to pay down the debt. Then, once the debt is paid off, we lower EVERYONE's tax rates even more.

See how easy that is?

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And you dramatically increase the costs everyone pays for things, forcing the federal government to redefine what poverty is, and have yet another massive increase in federal social spending because people's buying power decreases.

Yeah....let's do something that fisking stupid.

And you dramatically increase the costs everyone pays for things, forcing the federal government to redefine what poverty is, and have yet another massive increase in federal social spending because people's buying power decreases.

Yeah....let's do something that fisking stupid.

Here is my plan


-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2016 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 500 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

Oh, so you're going to ORDER businesses not to raise prices when their costs skyrocket?

Your plan would kill almost every small business. The economy would crash virtually overnight.

 

[OnePercenter]

Before trying to "fix" the national debt, we have to understand what is broken. How is the average American today hurt by our national debt ? Please be specific.

National debt is not like personal financial debt. Governments print money, debtors can't. Every advanced economy has a national debt, most are a bigger portion of GDP than ours is. Are they all wrong? Please explain.

Our national debt allows the government to borrow against future productivity to increase present productivity, without which future productivity is unlikely. It's like a college loan or a home mortgage. Are these bad things too? Help us understand.
The people who hold the paper on our debt expect to be repaid, with interest.

Eventually, we will not be able to repay our debt.

And you need it explained to you why this is a bad thing?

Really?
I'm afraid I still need an explanation. You continue to treat sovereign debt as consumer debt. This is false reasoning. You assert that "people who hold the paper on our debt expect to be repaid, with interest." Actually, this isn't quite how it works.

Treasury bonds (the "paper" to which refer) are sold at auction, often at a price above or below the face value depending on several factors. This is because such bonds are used not as a way to make money of the interest -- the way your bank does with your credit card -- but as a hedge against future conditions. For this reason, the federal debt is not paid down or paid off but "rolled over" as holders of maturing securities use them to purchase new ones.

So, you see, thinking of sovereign debt as consumer debt is a fundamental fallacy. Most of sovereign debt is never repaid, the can is merely kicked down the road. It is having that can down the road that makes the foreign countries and Federal Reserve Banks, who buy almost all of that debt, happy to do so

Now that you have had it eplained to you why the national debt is a good thing, it may help you understand why all those folks who think it is a bad think can never explain their belief with anything more than a misleading analogy to private debt.

You assert that "people who hold the paper on our debt expect to be repaid, with interest." Actually, this isn't quite how it works.

That's weird, I expect to be repaid, with interest, on all the debt I hold.
You have a list of people who don't expect to be repaid? Could you post it?

With all due respect, your expectations don't form the laws of economics or the fiscal policy of the US government. The sellers of US Treasury Bonds do not keep records of the supposed intent of purchasers. It is a silly idea. The bonds are purchased largely by institutions and foreign governments as a hedge investment. The fact the bonds are usually "rolled over" i.e. used to purchase new issues upon maturity of the old ones shows that cashing out at maturity is not their investment strategy.

This is because such bonds are used not as a way to make money of the interest -- the way your bank does with your credit card -- but as a hedge against future conditions.

That hedge only works if the debt is repaid, with interest.

No, that is not what "hedge" means in financial terms. Hedging is effective throughout the life of the investment, not just at maturity. With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about.

For this reason, the federal debt is not paid down or paid off but "rolled over" as holders of maturing securities use them to purchase new ones.

Some roll over, some don't. So what?

So plenty. The majority of T. Bonds roll over which is why the debt continues to grow. The bonds function in the economy is as a stabilizing force, not a speculation or short-term investmet.

It is having that can down the road that makes the foreign countries and Federal Reserve Banks, who buy almost all of that debt

That's an interesting claim. Can you prove it?

What you are asking me to prove is something which can be found in most college-level economic textbooks and many of the publications of the Federal Reserve itself. I'm here to have a discussion, not teach a course or have an argument with someone who doesn't know that he doesn't know the basics.

Apparently, you think your extrapolations from your personal financial experience are a key to understanding the policies of the Federal Reserve System and of the Department of the Treasury. I have no desire to disabuse you of that idea, but I am not going to spend time duscussing it. I thank you for sharing your thoughts and wish you good luck and successful future investing.

Before trying to "fix" the national debt, we have to understand what is broken.

-38 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000 last year.

-51 percent of all American workers made less than $30,000 last year.

-62 percent of all American workers made less than $40,000 last year.

-71 percent of all American workers made less than $50,000 last year.

Wage Statistics for 2014

 

[Mac1958]

good gawd

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We fix the debt very easily. We ban all tax expenditures, thus creating about $800 billion in surplus revenues every year.

Then the hard part. How do we spend all that extra cash?

I suggest using some to lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and the rest to pay down the debt. Then, once the debt is paid off, we lower EVERYONE's tax rates even more.

See how easy that is?

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And where are those billions hiding right now?

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

Just an understanding that a healthy middle class helps the economy prosper.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

You seem to be the only one here that doesn't, so I'll help.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Cool.
I just started a family business. We're going to buy $100,000 in goods and sell them for $110,000.
Our wages are going to be $200,000 a year.

How large is my tax refund?

 

[OnePercenter]

"The national debt is 19.3 trillion dollars. How do we fix it?"
The better question is what shouldn't we do...

Good to see you fully recognize you have no effective answer to the question.
As usual.

No one does

Well there is. It's called raise taxes and cut spending, and don't increase spending till it balances. Hillary's got a tax increase on the wealthy, but no spending cuts. The Donald .... nothing beyond "postage stamp." Cruz and Rubio have plans that seem a bit more credible than Hillary's.

Hillary's got a tax increase on the wealthy, but no spending cuts.

You forgot raising the minimum wage. One dollar in the hands of workers to spend puts $1.70 into the economy.

 

[OnePercenter]

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt, and they should pay it off. The rich and corporations have all the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt. The poor don't have the money, and the middle class is barely able to pay their bills as it is.

Cutting Social Security, Medicare, aid to the poor, education and healthcare, WON'T pay off the debt. It will only make things worse, by making the prison population explode....which is far more expensive.

Keeping the cons from starting another war will cut "deficit" spending by trillion$. Invading Iran will add another $10 trillion to the debt.

Ending foreign aid will go a long way to paying off the debt...hundreds of billions every year could go to paying off the debt. It's time to take care of Americans instead of other countries. The United States "uncle sugar" status has got to end.

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money.

The off-shore corporate stash of cash is more than the debt.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt, and they should pay it off. The rich and corporations have all the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt. The poor don't have the money, and the middle class is barely able to pay their bills as it is.

Cutting Social Security, Medicare, aid to the poor, education and healthcare, WON'T pay off the debt. It will only make things worse, by making the prison population explode....which is far more expensive.

Keeping the cons from starting another war will cut "deficit" spending by trillion$. Invading Iran will add another $10 trillion to the debt.

Ending foreign aid will go a long way to paying off the debt...hundreds of billions every year could go to paying off the debt. It's time to take care of Americans instead of other countries. The United States "uncle sugar" status has got to end.

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money.

The off-shore corporate stash of cash is more than the debt.

American households have over $80 trillion in net worth.

 

[OnePercenter]

We fix the debt very easily. We ban all tax expenditures, thus creating about $800 billion in surplus revenues every year.

Then the hard part. How do we spend all that extra cash?

I suggest using some to lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and the rest to pay down the debt. Then, once the debt is paid off, we lower EVERYONE's tax rates even more.

See how easy that is?

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And you dramatically increase the costs everyone pays for things, forcing the federal government to redefine what poverty is, and have yet another massive increase in federal social spending because people's buying power decreases.

Yeah....let's do something that fisking stupid.

And you dramatically increase the costs everyone pays for things, forcing the federal government to redefine what poverty is, and have yet another massive increase in federal social spending because people's buying power decreases.

Yeah....let's do something that fisking stupid.

Here is my plan


-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2016 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 500 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

Oh, so you're going to ORDER businesses not to raise prices when their costs skyrocket?

Your plan would kill almost every small business. The economy would crash virtually overnight.

Oh, so you're going to ORDER businesses not to raise prices when their costs skyrocket?

Your plan would kill almost every small business. The economy would crash virtually overnight.

Read the plan again.

 

[OnePercenter]

good gawd

good gawd

Voting for Republicans did that.

 

[OnePercenter]

We fix the debt very easily. We ban all tax expenditures, thus creating about $800 billion in surplus revenues every year.

Then the hard part. How do we spend all that extra cash?

I suggest using some to lower EVERYONE's tax rates, and the rest to pay down the debt. Then, once the debt is paid off, we lower EVERYONE's tax rates even more.

See how easy that is?

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And where are those billions hiding right now?

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

Just an understanding that a healthy middle class helps the economy prosper.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

You seem to be the only one here that doesn't, so I'll help.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Cool.
I just started a family business. We're going to buy $100,000 in goods and sell them for $110,000.
Our wages are going to be $200,000 a year.

How large is my tax refund?

Cool.
I just started a family business. We're going to buy $100,000 in goods and sell them for $110,000.
Our wages are going to be $200,000 a year.

How large is my tax refund?

You wouldn't pay any federal tax and carry-over the loss to future years.

 

[OnePercenter]

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt, and they should pay it off. The rich and corporations have all the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt. The poor don't have the money, and the middle class is barely able to pay their bills as it is.

Cutting Social Security, Medicare, aid to the poor, education and healthcare, WON'T pay off the debt. It will only make things worse, by making the prison population explode....which is far more expensive.

Keeping the cons from starting another war will cut "deficit" spending by trillion$. Invading Iran will add another $10 trillion to the debt.

Ending foreign aid will go a long way to paying off the debt...hundreds of billions every year could go to paying off the debt. It's time to take care of Americans instead of other countries. The United States "uncle sugar" status has got to end.

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money.

The off-shore corporate stash of cash is more than the debt.

American households have over $80 trillion in net worth.

American households have over $80 trillion in net worth.

American households have a negative net worth of $60 trillion.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No. You implement my $23.50/hr plan raising wages and placing billions per week back into the economy.

And where are those billions hiding right now?

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

Just an understanding that a healthy middle class helps the economy prosper.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

You seem to be the only one here that doesn't, so I'll help.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Cool.
I just started a family business. We're going to buy $100,000 in goods and sell them for $110,000.
Our wages are going to be $200,000 a year.

How large is my tax refund?

Cool.
I just started a family business. We're going to buy $100,000 in goods and sell them for $110,000.
Our wages are going to be $200,000 a year.

How large is my tax refund?

You wouldn't pay any federal tax and carry-over the loss to future years.

A non-refundable credit?
That's not as helpful as you claimed your plan would be.

 

[initforme]

Tax cuts for the wealthy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt, and they should pay it off. The rich and corporations have all the money. They are the ones that ran up the debt. The poor don't have the money, and the middle class is barely able to pay their bills as it is.

Cutting Social Security, Medicare, aid to the poor, education and healthcare, WON'T pay off the debt. It will only make things worse, by making the prison population explode....which is far more expensive.

Keeping the cons from starting another war will cut "deficit" spending by trillion$. Invading Iran will add another $10 trillion to the debt.

Ending foreign aid will go a long way to paying off the debt...hundreds of billions every year could go to paying off the debt. It's time to take care of Americans instead of other countries. The United States "uncle sugar" status has got to end.

The only way to fix it, is to get the money from those that have the money.

The off-shore corporate stash of cash is more than the debt.

American households have over $80 trillion in net worth.

American households have over $80 trillion in net worth.

American households have a negative net worth of $60 trillion.

Based on your IQ of negative 60 points.

 

[OnePercenter]

And where are those billions hiding right now?

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

He has a brilliant plan to give businesses a tax credit for all employee expenses.

Just an understanding that a healthy middle class helps the economy prosper.

He doesn't know what a tax credit is, but is sure his plan will work.

You seem to be the only one here that doesn't, so I'll help.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Under my plan employee expense deductions are exchanged for a 1:1 reduction of federal tax.

Cool.
I just started a family business. We're going to buy $100,000 in goods and sell them for $110,000.
Our wages are going to be $200,000 a year.

How large is my tax refund?

Cool.
I just started a family business. We're going to buy $100,000 in goods and sell them for $110,000.
Our wages are going to be $200,000 a year.

How large is my tax refund?

You wouldn't pay any federal tax and carry-over the loss to future years.

A non-refundable credit?
That's not as helpful as you claimed your plan would be.

A non-refundable credit?
That's not as helpful as you claimed your plan would be

You have a $210k loss.

 

[OnePercenter]

Tax cuts for the wealthy.

Tax cuts for the wealthy.

Sure, lets make close to zero, zero.