Old Rocks
Diamond Member
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What happens when you have to turn on the heat or a/c?
I guess an electric car works just fine if it never gets too cold or too hot.
I see. We have forgotten how to make electiric heaters or air conditioners?
Heat is not a problem with an ICE because they are so inefficient that they throw away 80% or better of the fuels energy as heat. Turn on the air conditioner in your car, and you use more fuel. Same for an EV. Turn on the heat or air conditioner, and you use more electricity.
I think the point is that every extra thing you do cuts down on the batteries charge, and therefore the range of the vehicle. Items you take for granted in a ICE car that can run off the alternator lights, radio, kids TV, AC (heat too, now that you cant use engine waste heat) will run down the charge. Not a deal breaker I think, but would have to be taken into account in your mileage calculations.
I see. We have forgotten how to make electiric heaters or air conditioners?
Heat is not a problem with an ICE because they are so inefficient that they throw away 80% or better of the fuels energy as heat. Turn on the air conditioner in your car, and you use more fuel. Same for an EV. Turn on the heat or air conditioner, and you use more electricity.
I think the point is that every extra thing you do cuts down on the batteries charge, and therefore the range of the vehicle. Items you take for granted in a ICE car that can run off the alternator lights, radio, kids TV, AC (heat too, now that you cant use engine waste heat) will run down the charge. Not a deal breaker I think, but would have to be taken into account in your mileage calculations.
Why an alternator? As for the rest of it, it all requires extra fuel when you do it in a ICE driven car, thereby reducing the range. If your car has a 500 mile range, and you reduce it to 400 miles because of heat, air conditioning, ect. is it that bad of a deal? 400 miles is not a bad distance between charges, expecially if you can do them in the time that it takes for dinner. That is a factor that I have not yet seen mentioned in the literature on the Zinc-air battery.
http://www.reveo.com/us/reveofiles/reveofiles/Acrobat Document-zinc.pdf
Very Promising! Zinc-Air Battery Could Hold 300% More Energy Than Lithium-Ion : TreeHugger
For electric vehicles, ReVolt is developing a novel battery structure that resembles that of a fuel cell. Its first batteries use two flat electrodes, which are comparable in size. In the new batteries, one electrode will be a liquid--a zinc slurry. The air electrodes will be in the form of tubes. To generate electricity, the zinc slurry, which is stored in one compartment in the battery, is pumped through the tubes where it's oxidized, forming zinc oxide and releasing electrons. The zinc oxide then accumulates in another compartment in the battery. During recharging, the zinc oxide flows back through the air electrode, where it releases the oxygen, forming zinc again.
This would increase energy density, and also increase the number of cycles before degradation (up to between 2,000 and 10,000 according to the company).
This is very promising, but as usual with news from the lab, we'll have to wait until it hits the market before we can know if it's really the holy grail...
760 really? I heard 300. The average daily commute is 30 miles (15 miles a way). At 30 miles a day, you would need to power up every 25 days. Even at the 300 level you would need to power up every 10 days. Say you have a long commuter 100 miles a day. You would have to power up only once a week (every 3 days for the 300 level).
What's the average commuting distance for americans?
At 760 you can almost make from Chicago to New York on one charge (796 miles). 3 charges for 300 miles. But you definitely can't make that on one tank of gas.
WikiAnswers - What is the distance in miles between New York and Chicago
What happens when you have to turn on the heat or a/c?
I guess an electric car works just fine if it never gets too cold or too hot.
I see. We have forgotten how to make electiric heaters or air conditioners?
Heat is not a problem with an ICE because they are so inefficient that they throw away 80% or better of the fuels energy as heat. Turn on the air conditioner in your car, and you use more fuel. Same for an EV. Turn on the heat or air conditioner, and you use more electricity.
Not only that, but the Tesla will be able to have a range of 760 milles per charge when the new Zinc-air batteries become available. And the batteries are expected to last for 2000 to 10,000 recharges.
Revolt, a company already producing small Zinc-air batteries has located it automotive battery headquarters in Portland, Oregon, with the intention of developing the automotive Zinc-air there.
760 really? I heard 300. The average daily commute is 30 miles (15 miles a way). At 30 miles a day, you would need to power up every 25 days. Even at the 300 level you would need to power up every 10 days. Say you have a long commuter 100 miles a day. You would have to power up only once a week (every 3 days for the 300 level).
[ame=http://askville.amazon.com/average-commuting-distance-americans/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2554434]What's the average commuting distance for americans?[/ame]
At 760 you can almost make from Chicago to New York on one charge (796 miles). 3 charges for 300 miles. But you definitely can't make that on one tank of gas.
WikiAnswers - What is the distance in miles between New York and Chicago
What happens when you have to turn on the heat or a/c?
I guess an electric car works just fine if it never gets too cold or too hot.
Well, then perhaps mount the panels somewhere else other than the roof of the house.
What I find interesting here is that the Conservatives, who claim to love liberty and independence, are all stating that the idea of someone producing their own power for their home and fuel for their transportation is a bad idea and can't and shouldn't be done.
Such dingbat claims such as one solar panel won't power my cabin. Well, a one cylinder Briggs and Stratton engine will not power my automobile. So, by your logic, an ICE is obviously incapable of supplying power for transportation.
Now, the battery technology is getting better every day, and there are places that see what the future will be.
ReVolt announces plans to develop rechargable batteries in Portland | OregonLive.com
Welcome to Portland, ReVolt!" Adams enthused in the company's press release. "As a company on the cutting edge of the electric-vehicle industry, ReVolt is bringing to Portland its commitment to innovation and Portland is one step further down the road to being America's EV hub."
ReVolt is "joining a bright, collaborative and exciting business community, and creating great jobs for our talented workforce," the mayor said.
Zinc-air batteries create an electrical current through a chemical reaction between zinc and the oxygen in air.
The company says that by using zinc, a globally-abundant industrial mineral, ReVolt's rechargeable batteries offer up to triple the energy density of lithium-ion batteries - at a significantly lower price. ReVolt's zinc-air batteries pose no risks during operation, the company says, making them well-suited for vehicle applications. When fully depleted, the batteries degrade into environmentally-benign compounds.
Notice the difference, when you denied saying you won't use a battery with your solar panel, I POSTED your own post where you said it, but you have yet to post anything YOU claim I said.
Day or night, in a grid-tied solar system an EV will charge just as fast as any household connected to the grid without a solar system because they are both charged from the grid! DUH!!!
The only difference is, when the sun is shining and your grid-tied solar system is producing more energy than you are using your meter runs backwards and in a non-solar household the meter never runs backwards.
No, you posted something where I said I do not have a battery on my system, not one where I said I do will not use one. On the other hand, I have posted quotes where you did say what you said.
You did not mention anything about a gird tied system initially, and we are not discussing that. We are discussing a hypothetical system that is not tied to a grid. If it is tied to a grid, the solar panel is not charging the EV, the grid is. The grid does not supplement the solar panels in a grid tied system, because the grid is larger and has more available power, the panels supplement the grid.
Why are you running around acting like I am not the one who understands how this works?
This is funny. If I have a system that puts less power on the grid than I use, from my perspective, then I am supplementing the grid power with that system. However, if my system put out more power than I use, then the grid is a supplement to my system.
Photovoltaic solar puts out it's power only during the day. However, that happens to be the time of peak demand. Not only that, but often there is little use of residential power during that time, while the industrial demand is peaking. With electric vehicles, most would be charging at night, when demand is lowest, so the efficient use of the grid would be improved with a combination of a lot of residential solar and electric vehicles.
Not only that, but the Tesla will be able to have a range of 760 milles per charge when the new Zinc-air batteries become available. And the batteries are expected to last for 2000 to 10,000 recharges.
Revolt, a company already producing small Zinc-air batteries has located it automotive battery headquarters in Portland, Oregon, with the intention of developing the automotive Zinc-air there.
Solar panels pay for themselves in a few years depending on the price of electricity in the area, and afterward provide a positive cash flow.EVs can also be charged from home solar panels and wind generators. Thin film solar panels have brought the price down and Obama offers a 30% tax rebate for installing solar panels. Of course, if the CON$ take over Congress that will probably be one of the first things they will kill.
Technology is dynamic, constantly changing, but CON$ervatism is static, stuck in the past.
The issue is previous technological improvements resulted in less work being done for a given task. Cars replaced horses, replacing feed, stabling, excrement cleanup and veterinary care, which was more expensive than gas, and maintenance. Rerigerators replaced ice boxes, replacing the need to have ice delivered, as well as increasing storage size.
The problem with current evironmental technological upgrades is they appear to create MORE work than the original item they are replacing. The benefit is not apparent, but some amorphous concept such as "saving the planet."
It isnt the politics, its the fact you are asking people to do more, with increased technology and cost, than what they had before.
Try again.