The Lefts' Attack on Religion Exposed

[chagan]

How are they going to get the same representation when their numbers are so much smaller? Do you advocate tyranny of the minority?

My problem with religion in society is the fact that not all religions are fairly represented. I know that muslims and jews are the minority but that doesn't make them any less equal than the rest of us.

I also don't understand the need to have prayer in school. I have no problem with it but once you bring prayer to school you need to think of all the ramifications. There will children that are not christians that will be doing their own kind of prayer. Do you want your kids listening to that? What if these other kids try to get your child to convert? That is why religion has no place in schools.

 

[CSM]

My problem with religion in society is the fact that not all religions are fairly represented. I know that muslims and jews are the minority but that doesn't make them any less equal than the rest of us.

I also don't understand the need to have prayer in school. I have no problem with it but once you bring prayer to school you need to think of all the ramifications. There will children that are not christians that will be doing their own kind of prayer. Do you want your kids listening to that? What if these other kids try to get your child to convert? That is why religion has no place in schools.

What do you mean by "fairly represented"? Has anyone seriously looked at the ramifications of NOT having prayer (of any type) in school? Do the children of the secularists have any more right to convert other children to their secularist point of view? Do you want your children listening to some other kid espousing atheism or an agnostic point of view? Does this issue extend to the political arena as well?

 

[theim]

My problem with religion in society is the fact that not all religions are fairly represented. I know that muslims and jews are the minority but that doesn't make them any less equal than the rest of us.

I also don't understand the need to have prayer in school. I have no problem with it but once you bring prayer to school you need to think of all the ramifications. There will children that are not christians that will be doing their own kind of prayer. Do you want your kids listening to that? What if these other kids try to get your child to convert? That is why religion has no place in schools.

No, I don't care if my child ever hears prayers from another religion. I would tell him "they are just a different religion than you. Ignore it.". I hope to raise my child one day so he will not be traumatized by *gasp* exposure to different ideas and beliefs.

And aside from Islam (and even that in the US is an infantessimal possibility) what religion could be so powerful in a child to get them to try and convert kids in school?

 

[chagan]

What do you mean by "fairly represented"?

I mean that we, as a society, should listen to what these other people have to say. If they feel weirded out about christianity we should listen to them and not judge them as if they were freaks from another planet. If they do not want to say the words "Under God" then we shouldn't make them. I DO NOT want those words taken out of the pledge but if people do not want to say those words we should not make them.

Has anyone seriously looked at the ramifications of NOT having prayer (of any type) in school? Do the children of the secularists have any more right to convert other children to their secularist point of view? Do you want your children listening to some other kid espousing atheism or an agnostic point of view? Does this issue extend to the political arena as well?

As I said before I have no problem with any type of prayer in school. I just worry that people who are so religious cannot accept other religions in schools with their kids. I know someone who doesn't want prayer in school because she doesn't want her children around other forms of prayer and she is a preachers wife. She, like me, does not believe that prayers have a place in school. I think that we should have a moment of silence and let people pray silently if they want to pray or if they don't want to they should sit quietly until the moment of silence is over.

Would that work for you?

 

[CSM]

I mean that we, as a society, should listen to what these other people have to say. If they feel weirded out about christianity we should listen to them and not judge them as if they were freaks from another planet. If they do not want to say the words "Under God" then we shouldn't make them. I DO NOT want those words taken out of the pledge but if people do not want to say those words we should not make them.



As I said before I have no problem with any type of prayer in school. I just worry that people who are so religious cannot accept other religions in schools with their kids. I know someone who doesn't want prayer in school because she doesn't want her children around other forms of prayer and she is a preachers wife. She, like me, does not believe that prayers have a place in school. I think that we should have a moment of silence and let people pray silently if they want to pray or if they don't want to they should sit quietly until the moment of silence is over.

Would that work for you?

The advocacy of tolerance is a noble endeavor; however, it should apply across the board....Those who choose to believe in God should be accorded the same tolerance as those who do not. No more and no less. Unfortunately, the tendency in our current society is to (ironically) demonize anyone who professes a belief in Christianity.

I really don't care if there is prayer in school or not; what I care about is the ATTITUDE that if someone prays in public to whatever God they believe in is somehow infringing on someone else's "rights". Carried to extremes (which appears to be happening more and more) that attitude fosters the intolerance which eventually leads to fanatacism.

 

[Bonnie]

My problem with religion in society is the fact that not all religions are fairly represented. I know that muslims and jews are the minority but that doesn't make them any less equal than the rest of us.

I also don't understand the need to have prayer in school. I have no problem with it but once you bring prayer to school you need to think of all the ramifications. There will children that are not christians that will be doing their own kind of prayer. Do you want your kids listening to that? What if these other kids try to get your child to convert? That is why religion has no place in schools.

The way you fairly represent all faiths is to stay out of the way, and let everyone express themselves they way they want barring obsenity...The governement is neither supposed to establish nor suppress any religious expression. No one is making anyone say Under God in the pledge, if someone wants to skip over that part then so be it. The problem comes from the ACLU which uses the constitution to suit their own agenda to completely remove any public expression of faith, this the founding fathers never intended as it has become suppression instead of tolerance. Regarding prayer in schools, the answer to that is to allow a moment of silence for everyone to reflect on the day and say whatever prayer they wish to in private, but at least allow the opportunity for kids to do that, its not infringing on anyones rights.

 

[musicman]

My problem with religion in society is the fact that not all religions are fairly represented. I know that muslims and jews are the minority but that doesn't make them any less equal than the rest of us.

I also don't understand the need to have prayer in school. I have no problem with it but once you bring prayer to school you need to think of all the ramifications. There will children that are not christians that will be doing their own kind of prayer. Do you want your kids listening to that? What if these other kids try to get your child to convert? That is why religion has no place in schools.

No - this is why the government has no business sticking it's nose into matters that - by Constitutional design - are supposed to be decided by the people in their communities. If you, and the majority of individuals who comprise your community, don't understand the need to have prayer in school, don't have it. Just don't bust MY chops about it. And don't go crying to the ACLU, in hopes that they will have imposed some artificial notion of "fairness". If you know - or care - anything about our Constitution, you must see that this is wrongheaded thinking.

The modern-day activist judiciary, and the seemingly endless supply of America-hating lawyers, have caused us to lose sight of the essense of our Constitutional form of government. It is simply this: The decentralization of power. The government that governs best, governs least. What that means in practical terms is spelled out in the closing sentence of the document (I'm paraphrasing): All powers not specifically granted to the Federal Government automatically revert to the states, or the people, or both. Don't you get their drift? The more control communities have over their own affairs, the more in line with the American ideal we are. The more interference these people have to endure from a busybody, micromanaging central government, the closer we are to the kind of tyranny our founders fled in the first place.

There is no Constitutional right not to have your feelings hurt, or feel left out. Those who try to promote such have no love for you, your country , or your freedom. Tyranny is the natural tendency of governments, and it never sleeps. It never gives up trying to assert itself. Don't let it seduce you with pretty talk of government-enforced "fairness". Life is unfair - but, as an American, you have freedoms that the rest of the world can only dream of. You have those because of your Constitution . Read it. Learn it. Understand it. Trust it. Defend it. It will protect you.

 

[5stringJeff]

But why do they need a sticker in a textbook now? Why doesn't the government just stay out of it and let the parents teach their kids about which one is correct?

It would be great if public schools would let parents teach whether evolution or creation is correct. But for that to happen, schools would have to teach both sides of the issue. As it is, any references to creationism/Intelligent Design are silenced in public schools, so most kids don't even understand the concept.

For the government to truly "stay out of it," like you suggest, it would have to be silent on the whole issue - not teaching either evolution or ID.

 

[musicman]

It would be great if public schools would let parents teach whether evolution or creation is correct. But for that to happen, schools would have to teach both sides of the issue. As it is, any references to creationism/Intelligent Design are silenced in public schools, so most kids don't even understand the concept.

For the government to truly "stay out of it," like you suggest, it would have to be silent on the whole issue - not teaching either evolution or ID.

A little off track, but - for my money, any theory BUT ID is a leap of faith bordering on the ludicrous! By that yardstick, Darwinism is, indeed, faith-based teaching.

 

[MissileMan]

what you don't get is that, in a way, everybody is hypocritical as we all commit sin and often, we do it knowing that we are doing it. Only Christ is without sin. The difference between you and a Christian is that a Christian knows that when they sin, through Christ, they can/will be forgiven. We all commit sins, but knowing that we can ask Christ for forgiveness and that it will be granted is what gives us comfort and what makes us strive toward a life without sin. We know that salvation is available, if we seek it; we try to live up to God's expectations, but we also know that sometimes we will falter. God knew that and that is why he sacraficed his son for our sins.

You haven't a clue do you?

I have a newsflash for you. Since I am an athiest, I am free from sin also, as are all athiests. Since sin is a violation of religious law it doesn't apply to us.

I find it amusing how Christians built in the "forgiveness" aspect. Commit all the sin, break all the laws you want, it's ok. Just say you're sorry. It's a good thing governmental law doesn't work the same way. Of course the prison over-population problem would go away...wait, there wouldn't be any prisons. All the criminals would use the "I'm Sorry" defense.

 

[MissileMan]

It would be great if public schools would let parents teach whether evolution or creation is correct. But for that to happen, schools would have to teach both sides of the issue. As it is, any references to creationism/Intelligent Design are silenced in public schools, so most kids don't even understand the concept.

For the government to truly "stay out of it," like you suggest, it would have to be silent on the whole issue - not teaching either evolution or ID.

Not true...If you want your kids to learn creationism, teach it to them at church. Since it is a religious theory, that is where it belongs. They then can choose which theory to believe in.

 

[freeandfun1]

I have a newsflash for you. Since I am an athiest, I am free from sin also, as are all athiests. Since sin is a violation of religious law it doesn't apply to us.

I find it amusing how Christians built in the "forgiveness" aspect. Commit all the sin, break all the laws you want, it's ok. Just say you're sorry. It's a good thing governmental law doesn't work the same way. Of course the prison over-population problem would go away...wait, there wouldn't be any prisons. All the criminals would use the "I'm Sorry" defense.

Your argument is more than pathetic and I find it and you amusing. So are you saying that non-Christians don't believe in forgiving? So you are saying, no matter what, throw em in jail and lock up the keys? Hey, glad to have you on board.

I doubt you will find a true Christian that, if they break the law, won't expect to do the time. The key to forgiveness is true and sincere sorrow for one's acts. So just saying "sorry" is not enough. Hell, libs like you believe that one just has to say, "it is all because of how I was raised" and you get a free pass. At least in Christianity one has to truly feel sorrow for their acts and accept responsibility.

I love how you libs love to simplify things in an attempt to win an argument.

 

[MissileMan]

Your argument is more than pathetic. So are you saying that non-Christians don't believe in forgiving? So you are saying, no matter what, throw em in jail and lock up the keys? Hey, glad to have you onboard.

I doubt you will find a true Christian that, if they break the law, won't expect to do the time. The key to forgiveness is true sorry for one's acts. So just saying "sorry" is not enough. Hell, libs like you believe that one just has to say, "it is all because of how I was raised" and you get a free pass. At least in Christianity one has to truly feel sorrow for their acts and accept responsibility.

I love how you libs love to simplify things in an attempt to win an arguement. Ou

First, I'm not a liberal. I am a non-religious conservative. Secondly, I was trying to point out the absurdity of sin having no consequence as long as you say, "sorry".

 

[dilloduck]

I have a newsflash for you. Since I am an athiest, I am free from sin also, as are all athiests. Since sin is a violation of religious law it doesn't apply to us.

I find it amusing how Christians built in the "forgiveness" aspect. Commit all the sin, break all the laws you want, it's ok. Just say you're sorry. It's a good thing governmental law doesn't work the same way. Of course the prison over-population problem would go away...wait, there wouldn't be any prisons. All the criminals would use the "I'm Sorry" defense.

You better print a retraction regarding your newsflash. Simply saying you are immune because you are not playing the game doesn't make you exempt in the eyes of anyone but yourself. Have you ever felt guilty? If so you have sinned and been punished by your own sense of morality.

 

[freeandfun1]

I was trying to point out the absurdity of sin having no consequence as long as you say, "sorry".

Who says that? You?

 

[musicman]

First, I'm not a liberal. I am a non-religious conservative. Secondly, I was trying to point out the absurdity of sin having no consequence as long as you say, "sorry".

That thing behind you is your ass. At the upper end of your forearm, you'll find your elbow.

 

[Bonnie]

First, I'm not a liberal. I am a non-religious conservative. Secondly, I was trying to point out the absurdity of sin having no consequence as long as you say, "sorry".

There is no faith I know of that claims sin all you want, and just say oops sorry and all is great. Being an Athiest you would have no idea of the concept of sin, pennance, mortal sin, sin of attrition and so on. Not believing is your right, making assumptions about something you don't know anything about is STUPID!! Nice try with the all Christians are hypocrites, I was wondering how long it would take you to come around to that one.......So old to try and use that as an excuse to have disdain for those that have faith........Try something else!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MissileMan]

You better print a retraction regarding your newsflash. Simply saying you are immune because you are not playing the game doesn't make you exempt in the eyes of anyone but yourself. Have you ever felt guilty? If so you have sinned and been punished by your own sense of morality.

I am saying the concept of religious sin doesn't apply to athiests any more than salvation does, and there will be no retraction forthcoming. There have been occasions where I have felt badly about something I have done, sure. Only a psychopath would deny that. I don't classify that as sin.

 

[MissileMan]

There is no faith I know of that claims sin all you want, and just say oops sorry and all is great. Being an Athiest you would have no idea of the concept of sin, pennance, mortal sin, sin of attrition and so on. Not believing is your right, making assumptions about something you don't know anything about is STUPID!! Nice try with the all Christians are hypocrites, I was wondering how long it would take you to come around to that one.......So old to try and use that as an excuse to have disdain for those that have faith........Try something else!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said Christians are hypocrites. But answer the question, "What is the consequence of sin, if it is forgiven for the asking?"

 

[UsaPride]

But answer the question, "What is the consequence of sin, if it is forgiven for the asking?"

Guilt