The God of Abraham, as Described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran

[AVG-JOE]

That's because the subject was not God, but the individual who used God, advancing a Fraudulent 'interpretation' of God as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

Much as you are using fraudulent interpretations as a deceitful means to influence the ignorant.

Fraudulent?



That's a tall accusation, Brother.

It's not an accusation, Brother. It's a fact. Learn the difference. It should help to move the conversation along.

I ass-u-me you can link to post(s) of mine that document AVG-FRAUD?

​

Why would I bother? Your thread's been moved to the trash.

As I said, the debate is over and you lost. Brother.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Bro'.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Here is the difference among the 3 religions Joe:

John 14: 6-8
6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life!” Jesus answered. “Without me, no one can go to the Father. 7 If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need.”

Christ. He's all you need.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Step one: Define 'God'. Specifically.

The intelligent force which/who in the beginning, created the heaven and the earth, which we know today as 'the Universe'. At that time, the universe was without form, a void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of 'the waters'. And God said, Let there be light, and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good... and with that, the Universe, AKA: the Creation began to take shape, and throughout the eons, has formed through the processes established by the Creator, into what we see about us today.

Specific enough?

No.

And yes.

You've only cited various titles and descriptions, except where you call Him 'God' and reference text from an ancient story, and the references used both point straight to Genesis in The Torah, where the starring God is The God of Abraham.



Step 1. Define 'God'.

The God of the Jews is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah.

If He's not, then who is? ​

The God of the Christians is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah and The New Testament.

If He's not, then who is? ​

The God of the Muslims is the God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Quran.

If He's not, then who is? ​

See how it works folks?

It's called shifting the goal post. And its how every debate with the lowly Anti-theists ends.

It feels that it came up with a good idea. But that idea cratered when the first person recognized that its argument required that every name given to God, requires that there must be a God for every name. There is no principle in nature which requires such.

I am one person.

Yet I am distinct from the perspective of my Father. And his perspective is distinct from that of my Mother, Aunts and Uncles, Siblings and friends. Those are distinct from that of my Children. Within that group, my daughter sees me differently from my sons and my son's perspectives are unique to each of them. And ALL of those are totally distinct from that of my wife.

The OP feels that because they all see me differently, despite them all knowing me personally, many for most of my life or all of their lives, that I must be DOZENS of different people.

And with that, the argument is over.

Sadly the OP will most likely be unable to muster up the objectivity to recognize it.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Well...I think we can agree that they all follow a diety with some serious anger-management issues, not to mention a preference for virgins.

What anger issues are those?

If you walk out onto the roof of a four story condo, walk off and flap your arms for all you're worth, do you blame God's anger for your crippled body?

 

[AVG-JOE]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Well...I think we can agree that they all follow a diety with some serious anger-management issues, not to mention a preference for virgins.

History is filled with stories of various sects that worship the God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and / or The Koran abusing power. From The Crusades to the current Sunni on Shiite bullshit, it's a lot when it's attributed to one dysfunctional subset.

Religion revolving around the God of Abraham hasn't been all bad though... History's chock-full of accomplishments, made in no small part by organization inspired by worship. It was a Muslim sect that produced a number system way back when that has yet to need replacing.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Well...I think we can agree that they all follow a diety with some serious anger-management issues, not to mention a preference for virgins.

What anger issues are those?

If you walk out onto the roof of a four story condo, walk off and flap your arms for all you're worth, do you blame God's anger for your crippled body?

That would depend on the promises made before hand, I suppose.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Here is the difference among the 3 religions Joe:

John 14: 6-8
6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life!” Jesus answered. “Without me, no one can go to the Father. 7 If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need.”

Christ. He's all you need.

This is a girl who is specific about her God! Kudos!

Add in her current signature and it's more than obvious that she's talking about Jesus The Christ, as described in The New Testament, where the God of Abraham took on flesh and lived among his creation.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Well...I think we can agree that they all follow a diety with some serious anger-management issues, not to mention a preference for virgins.

What anger issues are those?

If you walk out onto the roof of a four story condo, walk off and flap your arms for all you're worth, do you blame God's anger for your crippled body?

That would depend on the promises made before hand, I suppose.

Well God promises that if you violate his law, there will be consequences.

And that's without regard to the law.

So much as those who violate gravity, those who violate the law against eating shellfish, for instance, will reap the consequences common to that. Just as those who violate the law against promiscuous sex will bear the consequences for that. Same with those who violate the law requiring them to sustain their rights through the bearing of the responsibilities inherent in those rights and so on.

Spend more than ya earn, you're going to get HAMMERED!

Allow someone to pay for your healthcare, you're going to get HAMMERED.

Forfeit your responsibility to learn a marketable skill, HAMMERED.

Allow fools and children to speak publicly, advocating for foolish ideas, culture is going to tank.

Promote the interests of those determined to destroy you. DESTROYED.

Set aside the hard work, to search for an easier way, you're going to get soft. HAMMERED!

Stick your tongue on a frozen piece of steel. HAM... well, you get the idea.

Unlike Socialists, anti-thesits and Muslims, God is objective in his reasoning. Therefore everyone is treated the same. TOTAL FAIRNESS.

My favorite part of this is that the modern day advocates of Fairness in everything, are the loudest contestants of God's law. Because they're incapable of objectivity.

Simple stuff, really.

 

[hortysir]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Hey, Joe.

As devout a Christian as I am (I think we've had a similar discussion), I've tried to point out the connection in the past and damned near got "crucified" by other Christians here for it.

I, personally, believe we are all children of the same God. Though some call Him by another name.

Dysfunctional?
What family isn't?

 

[AVG-JOE]

 

[G.T.]

Wow @ how badly where r my keys misinterpreted the point of the thread.

Hes arguing from the perspective that "just because theyre described different doesnt make them a different person."


Umm, thats JOES POINT to begin with, mr. Comprehension Issues.

He is taking the religious to task for thinking theyre a different entity. Joe is saying theyre all the same entity.

Jesus christ.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Here is the difference among the 3 religions Joe:

John 14: 6-8
6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life!” Jesus answered. “Without me, no one can go to the Father. 7 If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need.”

Christ. He's all you need.

That is a beautiful passage.

I would like to point out that in Hebrew and Aramaic (which is likely the language that Yeshuah spoke most of the time), words like "the" and "a" were generally not used in spoken sentence construction at all. In fact, most of the time, they are left out and only inferred. Most Hebrew sentences only had subject-predicate-verb without any modifiers at all. Only in modern Hebrew have these small words found a place in everyday usage. So, yes, the Gospel of John was written in Greek, but the words he heard from Yeshua's mouth were either Aramaic or Hebrew and unless John asked for specifics, we really cannot know with 100% whether Yeshua said:

"I am the way, the truth and the light"

-or-

"I am a way, a truth and a light".

That is a simple linguistic -and- historical fact.


This is the Hebrew character for "the" as a determiner:

הַ

If you don't believe it yourself, you can check it out here:

Morfix Dictionary - ????? ??????? - English interface - the


Now, let's take a passage out of the Torah (Old Testament), with lot's of "the"s in the English Translation:

Exodus 24, vs. 12:

12. And the Lord said to Moses, "Come up to Me to the mountain and remain there, and I will give you the stone tablets, the Law and the commandments, which I have written to instruct them."

Here is how that verse looks in Ivrit:

The standard symbol for "the" as a determiner is nowhere in this verse to be seen.

There are lots of word-for-word translators out there, should you want to check this out yourself.

[MENTION=9429]AVG-JOE[/MENTION]

 

[hangover]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

So you're saying there were three different Abrahams, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.

Allow someone to pay for your healthcare, you're going to get HAMMERED.

Forfeit your responsibility to learn a marketable skill, HAMMERED.

Allow fools and children to speak publicly, advocating for foolish ideas, culture is going to tank.

This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Wow @ how badly where r my keys misinterpreted the point of the thread.

Hes arguing from the perspective that "just because theyre described different doesnt make them a different person."


Umm, thats JOES POINT to begin with, mr. Comprehension Issues.

He is taking the religious to task for thinking theyre a different entity. Joe is saying theyre all the same entity.

Jesus christ.

Oh How sweet.

But I am not Jesus Christ. I am merely a follower of Christ.

I just appear to be Christ when I'm in the proximity of Anti-theist.

I hope that clears THAT up.

With regard to your point: No, Joe's point is: 'that because they're interpreted as distinct Deities, there must be more than one Deity, each claims that there is only one, therefore they're all wrong, and there is no Deity.'

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Well...I think we can agree that they all follow a diety with some serious anger-management issues, not to mention a preference for virgins.

History is filled with stories of various sects that worship the God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and / or The Koran abusing power. From The Crusades to the current Sunni on Shiite bullshit, it's a lot when it's attributed to one dysfunctional subset.

Religion revolving around the God of Abraham hasn't been all bad though... History's chock-full of accomplishments, made in no small part by organization inspired by worship. It was a Muslim sect that produced a number system way back when that has yet to need replacing.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk9Yt1PqQiw]10 Little Numbers - YouTube[/ame]

Islam has eschewed acquisition of knowledge for most of its history and, as it initially rose to power, from its origins, its first true milestone was the creation of "The Dark Ages". Burning every trace of western civilization's base of knowledge, except that which was managed to be stashed away and hidden by the Christian Monks who stored and cared for it. It was the Crusades which shoved them back, allowing that base of knowledge to be brought back into the light, as well as opening the trade routes that provided for the further pursuit of such.

One teeny tiny little clue in all of this is that Islam refered to Christians and Jews as "People of the Book". This identification came from its origins wherein the tribal nomads common to Islam were in possession of no 'books'. Their history and conveyances were exclusively spoken.

But the myths of Islam's gifts to humanity persist and are difficult to refute, having become conventional wisdom.

Islam is less a religion and more a religious ideology. Collective in its essence, subjective to its hollow core, it is a kissing cousin of and among the oldest living examples of socialism.

 

[G.T.]

Wow @ how badly where r my keys misinterpreted the point of the thread.

Hes arguing from the perspective that "just because theyre described different doesnt make them a different person."


Umm, thats JOES POINT to begin with, mr. Comprehension Issues.

He is taking the religious to task for thinking theyre a different entity. Joe is saying theyre all the same entity.

Jesus christ.

Oh How sweet.

But I am not Jesus Christ. I am merely a follower of Christ.

I just appear to be Christ when I'm in the proximity of Anti-theist.

I hope that clears THAT up.

With regard to your point: No, Joe's point is: 'that because they're interpreted as distinct Deities, there must be more than one Deity, each claims that there is only one, therefore they're all wrong, and there is no Deity.'

" that bloodshed between people who worship the same fucking Deity" - avg joe

 

[G.T.]

His point is to take religions to task who each think that their god is the true god while the other religions (who he asserts describe the same said god) think theirs is, all the while (in joes opinion) theyre talking about the same fucking god and somehow don't realize it.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

So you're saying there were three different Abrahams, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.

Allow someone to pay for your healthcare, you're going to get HAMMERED.

Forfeit your responsibility to learn a marketable skill, HAMMERED.

Allow fools and children to speak publicly, advocating for foolish ideas, culture is going to tank.

This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

No... the miracles in terms of curing the sick, are known as 'charity', meaning a gift or that which was not earned, but given from the heart.

Christ provided the miracles as an example of God's gift, which he represented, wherein all of humanity is seen as sick and unworthy of life, but which God provided without regard to our worthiness, in hopes that we would at some point rise to a state of worthiness, joining with him in fellowship as part and parcel of the process.

That wasn't happening, so he sent his only begotten Son, to pay the price for our failure.

What you're rationalizing is that because you exist, you are entitled to everything including the service and property of others. Which Jesus would readily define you as a thief. And you will not care for the consequences of that, I assure you.

Jesus was many things. A socialist is not one of them.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

His point is to take religions to task who each think that their god is the true god while the other religions (who he asserts describe the same said god) think theirs is, all the while (in joes opinion) theyre talking about the same fucking god and somehow don't realize it.

There God is the true God, as there is truly, only one God. This without regard to the perspectives of the individuals worshipping God.

His point was to convey doubt in the heart of the believer, by showing that different people, believe different things about God, pushing the conclusion, thus implying what they feel is the reasonable evidence providing for doubt, that because different people, believe different things about God, God is not real and therefore doesn't exist.

Here's a clue for ya: Christians know that God of the Bible is God of the Torah, and both know that God is the basis for the Koran. Where they all disagree is in the interpretation of God's will for humanity.

That being true, there is no point with regard to the OP, beyond fomenting doubt, by noting the disagreement.

It's an anti-theist standard and one of my particular faves.

Try to understand that such is the nature of evil. It creates doubt, as a means to separate man from the Father, as a means of man's destruction. Much as its purpose in the purveyance of socialism.

 

[G.T.]

Your psychobabble notwithstanding, he is correct.

They seem to be worshipping the same God upon close inspection, while acting as though only the one in their own personal Religion's text is true while the others are false.