The God of Abraham, as Described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran

[Unkotare]

All religions are a "religious ideology".

Islam won the crusades, not the Christians, that's why there were so many of them. The Palestinians gave shelter to the Jews, and let them live in Jerusalem all those centuries, because the Christians were persecuting the Jews as heretics along with the Muslims. And now you see how they are repaid by Israel. Stolen land, by order of God. Pft!

Nonsense.

Let me help ya through this HIGHLY complex equation:

Ideology: a system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy

Valid religion, merely observes the natural order, recognizes, respects, defends and adheres to those principles observed.

The Crusades were the end of the Islamic Caliphate. Waging a couple of dozen campaigns, the Crusades were minuscule by comparison to the Islamic Crusades which the Christian Crusades finally defended against. Islam murdered Ten of millions of innocent Christians and Jews in the push for the Caliphate.

As I said, Islam caused and maintained 'the Dark Ages'. Which they are working to the extent of their means to re-open, everywhere they're found.

But that is the nature of evil, so it serves reason.

Bullshit. It was the Catholic church that invaded Palestine during the crusades. It was the Catholic church that killed thousands of Palestinians and Jews as heretics. It was the Catholic church that was the world dictator for a thousand years. And it was the Catholic church that kept the world in the dark ages with Catholic dogma.

Anyone that thinks the Jews are "God's chosen people" must believe that God is a bigot. I refuse to believe that anyone that isn't a Jew is considered a dog.

No religion has a monopoly on God. No religion can own God.

You can't see past your own prejudice, and your ability to reason seems particularly limited.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"Anyone that thinks the Jews are "God's chosen people" must believe that God is a bigot. I refuse to believe that anyone that isn't a Jew is considered a dog."

6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.
- Deuteronomy 6

12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord,
the people he chose for his inheritance.
- Psalm 33

12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.

2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.[a]
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”
- Genesis 12

What you personally believe is immaterial. Jews are G-d's chosen people. If you use the Bible as your basis for faith that's it. It's there and you can look it up at your convenience.

Resistance is futile.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

So you're saying there were three different Abrahams, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.

Allow someone to pay for your healthcare, you're going to get HAMMERED.

Forfeit your responsibility to learn a marketable skill, HAMMERED.

Allow fools and children to speak publicly, advocating for foolish ideas, culture is going to tank.

This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

My version is one Abraham. Don't put words in my mouth and then ridicule me for them.
One Abraham, One God.
Ishmael resented Issac, so he manufactured his own form of Abraham's God, one that blessed him instead of Issac. Not a hard position to understand.

The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do.
So no 3 Gods, no 3 Abrahams. 1 God for both Jews and Christians, and a variation of that one God to favor Ishmael over Issac.

 

[Newby]

I don't blame the God of AVG-JOE for the ills of the world, but I do blame the followers of the God of Abraham for a lot of history's carnage.

God is God. I just seriously doubt that He singled out the family of Abraham 6,000 years ago. I think delusions of grandeur arose because of how Abraham’s story survived our checkered history.

And The http://www.usmessageboard.com/philosophy/266556-word.html was God.

Then you're foolish for doing so, people are people, with faults and imperfections, and are prone to use any scapegoat, i.e. being poor, abusive parents, religion, etc.. for their bad deeds. Human carnage has been about since the beginning and man and will be here until the end of man, because that is human nature. To blame it on one or another religious sect is just stupid and ill informed. The violent muslims of today are no different, they use their 'religion' as an excuse for violence and murder, it doesn't mean that their behavior is sanctioned by God, anymore than violence done in the past in the name of God by humans was sanctioned by God. You seemingly cannot seem to separate the acts of proclaimed followers of God, from God Himself, which is at the heart of your conundrum, if you truly even have one. I think you're just trolling and enjoying calling anyone of any religious faith as 'dysfunctional'. How you expect to get respect or honest discussion from anoyone when you're constantly insulting is a mystery. Either you're too stupid to see that, or you're just being a troll, and unfortunately I had thought you to be better than that. Guess I thought wrong. This is just a trool thread, and you've just repeated the same line thru the entire thing, wasting everyone's time for your own amusement. And you're saying that people of faith are all dysfunctional? Yeah, whatever Joe.

Did I ever say that I blame a God?

On the contrary, I blame the followers of the God of Abraham... the humans involved.

The reasons for the carnage inflicted are moot to this discussion, which is whether or not we can lump all of the followers of that particular God in to one subset.

Who cares? For what purpose?

And what about the carnage of people who don't profess to follow God? Their carnage is somehow different? Stupid thread.

 

[Shaarona]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

So you're saying there were three different Abrahams, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.

Allow someone to pay for your healthcare, you're going to get HAMMERED.

Forfeit your responsibility to learn a marketable skill, HAMMERED.

Allow fools and children to speak publicly, advocating for foolish ideas, culture is going to tank.

This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

My version is one Abraham. Don't put words in my mouth and then ridicule me for them.
One Abraham, One God.
Ishmael resented Issac, so he manufactured his own form of Abraham's God, one that blessed him instead of Issac. Not a hard position to understand.

The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do.
So no 3 Gods, no 3 Abrahams. 1 God for both Jews and Christians, and a variation of that one God to favor Ishmael over Issac.

God does bless Ishmael just differently.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

So you're saying there were three different Abrahams, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.

Allow someone to pay for your healthcare, you're going to get HAMMERED.

Forfeit your responsibility to learn a marketable skill, HAMMERED.

Allow fools and children to speak publicly, advocating for foolish ideas, culture is going to tank.

This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

My version is one Abraham. Don't put words in my mouth and then ridicule me for them.
One Abraham, One God.
Ishmael resented Issac, so he manufactured his own form of Abraham's God, one that blessed him instead of Issac. Not a hard position to understand.

The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do.
So no 3 Gods, no 3 Abrahams. 1 God for both Jews and Christians, and a variation of that one God to favor Ishmael over Issac.

And what do we learn from this? Treat your kids all the same.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

So you're saying there were three different Abrahams, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.

Allow someone to pay for your healthcare, you're going to get HAMMERED.

Forfeit your responsibility to learn a marketable skill, HAMMERED.

Allow fools and children to speak publicly, advocating for foolish ideas, culture is going to tank.

This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

My version is one Abraham. Don't put words in my mouth and then ridicule me for them.
One Abraham, One God.
Ishmael resented Issac, so he manufactured his own form of Abraham's God, one that blessed him instead of Issac. Not a hard position to understand.

The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do.
So no 3 Gods, no 3 Abrahams. 1 God for both Jews and Christians, and a variation of that one God to favor Ishmael over Issac.

So it's three different pathways, all pointing to the God who, as documented in The Torah, chose Abraham and his family to bless, right?

If one wants to access the God of Abraham and one is Jewish, one need only invoke heritage and begin to practice the religion according to The Torah. The Gentiles must chose to follow Jesus as The Christ or The Koran to have access to Abraham's Deity.




He's been a popular Deity, this God of Abraham. I'll give Him that.

​

 

[The Irish Ram]

So you're saying there were three different Abraham's, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.



This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

My version is one Abraham. Don't put words in my mouth and then ridicule me for them.
One Abraham, One God.
Ishmael resented Issac, so he manufactured his own form of Abraham's God, one that blessed him instead of Issac. Not a hard position to understand.

The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do.
So no 3 Gods, no 3 Abrahams. 1 God for both Jews and Christians, and a variation of that one God to favor Ishmael over Issac.

And what do we learn from this? Treat your kids all the same.

Actually what we learn from Abraham and Sarah is to listen to and wait on the Lord. God told them Issac would be forthcoming but Sarah was impatient. And Abraham was weak. And what a mess it created.
And Shaarona is right, but before they are blessed, when they come against Israel, God Himself will fight against them and drive them back.
It is not until Christ returns with His unyielding compassion will Issac and Ishmael love each other as brothers.

Here is the blessing for ALL of Abraham's children:

Isaiah 19:25
Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So you're saying there were three different Abrahams, that all lived in the same place, at the same time, and did the same thing......Now that's a new twist on Ground Hog Day.

It amazes me how people like this can reject the truth, in favor of their own version of reality.



This from the "NEW REPUBLICAN REVISED" bible. Guess all those that Jesus healed have to go to hell for letting him pay for their health care. This is the kind of crap the "workers of iniquity" put on God's people.

My version is one Abraham. Don't put words in my mouth and then ridicule me for them.
One Abraham, One God.
Ishmael resented Issac, so he manufactured his own form of Abraham's God, one that blessed him instead of Issac. Not a hard position to understand.

The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do.
So no 3 Gods, no 3 Abrahams. 1 God for both Jews and Christians, and a variation of that one God to favor Ishmael over Issac.

So it's three different pathways, all pointing to the God who, as documented in The Torah, chose Abraham and his family to bless, right?

If one wants to access the God of Abraham and one is Jewish, one need only invoke heritage and begin to practice the religion according to The Torah. The Gentiles must chose to follow Jesus as The Christ or The Koran to have access to Abraham's Deity.




He's been a popular Deity, this God of Abraham. I'll give Him that.

​

Indeed He is.
Abraham and God were friends. It is almost hard to fathom that this All Mighty God and Abraham sat around a campfire and talked and ate and laughed. We have turned him into an inaccessible, unknowable Deity, when what He really wants to be is close to His children. How we must break His heart.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Yepp, no one wants to touch this posting:


http://www.usmessageboard.com/philo...ew-testament-and-the-koran-3.html#post8498239

chuckle, chuckle...

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do."

Not quite. Christians, and I'll conceed not all Christians believe as all others, believe G-d is Yeshua AND the Jewish Messiah AND a literal relative of G-d. Jews by comparison (and Muslims) only believe in G-d.

 

[AVG-JOE]

My version is one Abraham. Don't put words in my mouth and then ridicule me for them.
One Abraham, One God.
Ishmael resented Issac, so he manufactured his own form of Abraham's God, one that blessed him instead of Issac. Not a hard position to understand.

The Jews and Christians believe in the same God, the difference being that the Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and Christians do.
So no 3 Gods, no 3 Abrahams. 1 God for both Jews and Christians, and a variation of that one God to favor Ishmael over Issac.

So it's three different pathways, all pointing to the God who, as documented in The Torah, chose Abraham and his family to bless, right?

If one wants to access the God of Abraham and one is Jewish, one need only invoke heritage and begin to practice the religion according to The Torah. The Gentiles must chose to follow Jesus as The Christ or The Koran to have access to Abraham's Deity.




He's been a popular Deity, this God of Abraham. I'll give him that.

​

Indeed He is.
Abraham and God were friends. It is almost hard to fathom that this All Mighty God and Abraham sat around a campfire and talked and ate and laughed. We have turned him into an inaccessible, unknowable Deity, when what He really wants to be is close to His children. How we must break His heart.

'Almost'?


Why Abraham? Why would God chose that family? If God wants to be close to his creation, why filter the whole process through Abraham? Why not just join me at my campfire and you at yours?

 

[Bloodrock44]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Yes there is. Although all 3 religions worship the same God, it's the sons that separate them. Jews believe Isaac was the son of promise. Muslims believe it was Ishmael. Christians believe it's Jesus. (Isaiah 9 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given.)

 

[editec]

The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran...

Is there any good reason not to lump ALL of the followers of this God in to one dysfunctional subset of humanity?

Yes there is.

They do NOT all believe the same insane shit you find in the old testament.

You are now attempting to lump together over 2 billion people, with wildly different belief systems.

AvgJoe normally you are one of this boards most enlighten posters, but here you are now doing the same stupid assed thing that every fucking totalitarian nitwit on this board advocates.

You are asking our permission to stop thinking clearly and to give yourself the right to COLLECTIVE JUDGEMENT of people based on some goofy notuion that they are ALL THE SAME.

Shame on you.

You know better than this..

 

[The Irish Ram]

Here Stat. The way is exclusive. A way is inclusive. The way to tell the difference is through the rest of the verse, "no man goes to the Father but through me". It is exclusive.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life

 

[The Irish Ram]

So it's three different pathways, all pointing to the God who, as documented in The Torah, chose Abraham and his family to bless, right?

If one wants to access the God of Abraham and one is Jewish, one need only invoke heritage and begin to practice the religion according to The Torah. The Gentiles must chose to follow Jesus as The Christ or The Koran to have access to Abraham's Deity.




He's been a popular Deity, this God of Abraham. I'll give him that.

​

Indeed He is.
Abraham and God were friends. It is almost hard to fathom that this All Mighty God and Abraham sat around a campfire and talked and ate and laughed. We have turned him into an inaccessible, unknowable Deity, when what He really wants to be is close to His children. How we must break His heart.

'Almost'?


Why Abraham? Why would God chose that family? If God wants to be close to his creation, why filter the whole process through Abraham? Why not just join me at my campfire and you at yours?

He didn't choose that family, He chose that man to bless because of Abraham's unusual insight.
Abraham's Dad made idols. A lucrative business. But when Abraham was left in His father's shop, He realized that all those idols were nothing but clay or metal, and had no special powers. So, he broke them. Then told his Dad that if they had any power they could mend themselves. It was that understanding that drew God to Abraham.
And they became good friends, and enjoyed each other's company. And because Abraham longed for children, and God was capable of granting Abraham's desire, He did.
I promised my best friend that if anything ever happened to her that I would look after her children. God told His friend the same thing.

First, God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden in the cool of the evening. He went before the Jews night and day during the exodus. He was here to bury Moses, so no one would disturb the grave. He was here in the Temple.

I would venture to guess the stench is what is keeping Him away in these present days....

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

I'm not talking about the message, it's the Deity defined that's up for discussion.

The Deity behind Judaism, Christianity and Islam is the same: The God of Abraham as first described in The Torah...

If not... Who are the respective Gods of those faiths? ​

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The God of Abraham, as Described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran…

Is all make-believe.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Joe, if you think they are the same, read the Koran and the Bible and then tell me how they are even remotely similar. The messages are polar opposites. If they were the same God their singular personality should be apparent in both.

I'm not interested in the divergent stories in this thread. I want to establish one way or the other exactly who the God of The Torah is, who the God of The New Testament is, and who the God of The Koran is.


I believe that, no matter what label or name is being used, 'God', as referenced in the three ancient stories under discussion, is indeed the God of Abraham, as first described in The Torah.

In other words - The New Testament and The Koran are both spin offs, attempting to provide access to the God of the Jews.


Step one in any religious debate is to define the various gods being discussed. So far we have the God of Abraham as described first in The Torah, and nadda.

Yeah, but isn't that like saying that just because we call them The Three Stooges, that Moe, Larry and Curly are all the same?

 

[Mr. H.]

Conceited self-righteous deluded apocryphal idiots.