MaggieMae
Reality bits
- Apr 3, 2009
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1. ... the original progressivesincluding leaders such as Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Rooseveltrejected America's founding principles....today's leftist policies are the culmination of a journey begun by progressives over a century ago.
2. The progressive movement did indeed repudiate the principles of individual liberty and limited government that were the basis of the American republic.
I am always amazed at how the conservative corporatists know what was in the founder's heads as they created the American experiment. In truth the founders were elitists who thought they knew better than the average person, and were confused and bemused over the democracy [republic ?] that developed.
Repost - check out a real historian and not a corporate economic think tank hack like Pestritto. Wood discusses the founder's wonder over the evolution of a working society and the utopian fantasy of the wingnuts on the right.
American Founders and Foundations - 'Gordon Wood is author, co-author or editor of more than a dozen books, including:'
"The Creation of the American Republic, 1776-1787 (1969); Representation in the American Revolution (1969); The Making of the Constitution (1987); The Radicalism of the American Revolution (1992); The American Revolution: A History (2001); The Americanization of Benjamin Franklin (2004); Revolutionary Characters: What Made the Founders Different (2006); The Purpose of the Past: Reflections of the Uses of History (2008); Empire of Liberty: A History of the Early Republic, 1789-1815 (2010).
In Depth - In Depth: Gordon Wood - Book TV
Poor Middy, I almost feel sorry for you...I said almost.
This is political karma...if I may coin a phrase.
After inflicting this left wing, incompetent empty suit on the nation.
Now, to deconstruct your post:
1."I am always amazed at how the conservative corporatists.."
Isn't this a bit syncretic, combining conservative with corportist?
Corporatism is one arm of the statist-octopus. I believe Goldberg covered it in this way:
Corporatism was a term for dividing up industry into cooperative units, and associations, that would work together under the rubric of national purpose. Corporatism simply seemed a more straightforward attempt at what social planners and businessmen had been moving toward for decades. It embodied a new sense of national purpose that would allow business and labor to put aside their class differences and hammer out what was best for all. It represented an exhaustion with politics and a newfound faith in science and experts.
2. "...know what was in the founder's heads as they created the American experiment. In truth the founders were elitists who thought they knew better than the average person, and were confused and bemused over the democracy [republic ?] that developed. "
So, in your convoluted prose you deny my side knowing what the Founders thought, and then tell all what the Founders thought.
How thaumaturgical on your part!
3. "...discusses the founder's wonder over the evolution of a working society and the utopian fantasy of the wingnuts on the right. "
Perhaps you'd like to see some examples of the thinking on your side, and you might, in light of the OP, care to...what,...defend them? Did you notice how I refrain from pejoratives like 'wingnut'? Think about it.
a. Woodrow Wilson: : Men as communities are supreme over men as individuals. 1919: Betrayal and the Birth of Modern Liberalism by Fred Siegel, City Journal 22 November 2009
b. In addition to writing the 800-page tome, The State, he wrote more popular commentary. One of his regular themes was the advocacy of progressive imperialism in order to subjugate, and thereby elevate, lesser races. As to the annexation of Puerto Rico and the Philippines, they are children and we are men in these deep matters of government and justice
c. . Wilson wrote in The State, 1889, that "Government does now whatever experience permits or the times demand." His writings attack the Constitution, and the ideas of natural and individual rights. Along with Frank J. Goodnow, they pioneered the concept of the administrative state, which separated the administration of government from the limitations of constitutional government.
American progressivism: a reader - Google Books
d. The rights which [an individual] possesses are...conferred upon him, not by his Creator, but rather by the society to which he belongs. What they are is to be determined by the legislative authority in view of the needs of that society. Social expediency, rather than natural right, is thus to determine the sphere of individual freedom of action. The Claremont Institute - Leaving the Constitution
e. Wilson wrote treatises explaining why Americans should abandon their blind devotion to the Constitution, Teddy was rough-riding all over the document, doing what he pleased and giving bellicose speeches about how the courts had sided against popular rights and were lagging behind the new realities. J.Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, p.90.
f. The essence of Progressivism, as Wilson put it, was that the individual marry his interests to the state. James Bovard, Freedom in Chains: The Rise of the State and the Demise of the Citizen, p.8.
g. Roosevelt, in his New Nationalism speech rightly maintains that every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it. New Nationalism Speech by Theodore Roosevelt
h. More from the same speech, 'The New Nationalism,' 1910: We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. Oh, my, I had best stop now...but can provide more if you require it....
I certainly look forward to you, or anyone, finding errors in the above, or a way to spin these views to show how you support same...
Of course, if you are unable, you will leave the view that progressive views are far from the Founders, and those that I champion as American values.
(emphasis mine throughout)
If you like, I can link your fav, FDR to similar thinking, as well as the current progressives.
4. I must say, Midcan, that I appreciate the thought and the style, i.e. links and quotes, in your posts. I wish more on the board would handle debate in that manner.
What does any of that have to do with Midcan's immediate post to which you responded? Oh my, you DO tend to get carried away, PC. Far, FAR away from the topic.