The FBI had an insane man in their office saying he heard voices from ISIS and they let him go...

[WelfareQueen]

One other thing on this issue for those with family members with mental health issues. All States allow Police to detain an individual for up to 4 hours in order to get a mental health evaluation. The officer can and should do this if he has any doubt. In Virginia it is called an Emergency Custody Order.

The cops would call me, and I would go out to the scene...evaluate the individual.....and I had the power to involuntarily hospitalize if the person met the legal criteria i mentioned earlier.

 

[WinterBorn]

If you want to place blame, it should go squarely at the feet of the federal gov't's lack of funding for the VA.

The man was a veteran. His family said he was a good guy, but came back from Iraq changed. He likely was suffering from PTSD.

Why is it that there never seems to be a shortage of funding for bombs and bullets, but when a veteran needs help, there is no money? THAT is the crisis. It is a crisis because those in charge failed to keep their promises to the men and women who served.

It is like when I hear "As long as one veteran is homeless, we should not take in any refugees". The refugees are irrelevant. Our veterans suffering because of their service, and having no help is the issue. Now it cost 5 people their lives.

 

[WelfareQueen]

That's why those five people died.

Fort Lauderdale airport shooting suspect had visited FBI office in Alaska last year

Did the man break any laws or present himself as a danger?

Because contrary to your fantasies, you can't just lock people up because you think they are crazy. They have to actually BREAK THE LAW.

Now, there was a time when you COULD put someone away if they presented as too crazy. But Reagan did away with that shit.


So spare me the "The FBI let him go, that is why those 5 people died". The FBI has to have an actual reason to hold someone.

You are wrong. I am a mental health clinician who worked for years for County Mental Health in Virginia (Henrico and Hanover Counties).

Individuals can be civilly detained in Virginia and every other State in the Country based on their mental health status. Specially, if someone is a danger to self or others or unable to care for self due to mental illness or substance abuse.

If this guy presented at FBI headquarters obviously psychotic and deranged the FBI should have detained him and had a mental health professional evaluation him for possible involuntary hospitalization. The fact the FBI did not do this is clear evidence in my mind they fucked up....badly.

Did you read the article? The FBI did contact mental health professionals and they held him for evaluation. Obviously, those mental health professionals did not find him to be a danger.

Okay...if the FBI had him evaluated then they did their job. People do have a right to be crazy.....but not if they are a legal risk to self or others. Since none of us know how this guy presented, maybe he did not meet the legal criteria.

I can tell you most mental health folks err on the side of caution. Early in my career my boss told me..."never walk away from an evaluation feeling uneasy. When in doubt....hospitalize them and allow their due porcess rights to take place there."

I never had any one die on me or kill a family member after I left a scene. for that ...I am very thankful.

 

[theHawk]

He was a clear danger to society. Mentally unstable and pledging himself to terrorist cause. He should had been locked up or committed into a mental ward.

Really? He was "pledging himself to ISIS"? Do you have a link for that?

Oh, and he was taken into custody for a mental health evaluation. The medical professionals didn't see him as a threat.

Unless a person is an eminent threat to himself or others, you can't just lock them up.

He said voices were telling him to fight for ISIS.

The article linked in the OP does not say that.

Once again, do you have a link for that?

Federal law enforcement officials investigated Santiago last year. He told FBI agents that he heard voices in his head that told him to watch Islamic State materials, but he said he was in control and had no intention of hurting anyone, according to The New York Times.


Official: FLL shooter told FBI that gov't controlled his mind

Someone claiming they are being forced to watch ISIS videos should be locked up.

So the whole claim that he was pledging himself to a terrorist organization was something you made up? Glad you can admit that.

Unless he was a clear danger to himself or others, they let him go. First of all because he is a free citizen. And second of all because the funding for involuntary mental health lockups are almost nonexistent. Those mental hospitals like to be paid for their work.

Wow you're an idiot. The man told the FBI that voices were telling him to watch ISIS videos and join them. Joining ISIS means you pledge to commit violence, which of course he followed through on. The warning signs were there, the FBI did do some mental health examinations on him, but still failed to do enough. He was a clear danger to others.

 

[theHawk]

Extremely unfair to blame the FBI for this. They cannot hold people if they haven't committed a crime. Being insane isn't a crime until they actually do something illegal.

They didn't even put him on the no-fly list. They dropped the ball big time.

You can't put people on the no fly list for having a mental disorder. Have you no concept of civil rights?

You can ban them if they are a danger to others.

 

[2aguy]

So...we have another shooter examined by the Professionals.......both the FBI, and now mental health professionals......but we are to believe that these same people should be the ones who are able to strip the Right to bear arms from law abiding citizens...?

 

[AvgGuyIA]

That's why those five people died.

Fort Lauderdale airport shooting suspect had visited FBI office in Alaska last year

You didn't know the Obama FBI is a sanctuary?

 

[WinterBorn]

Really? He was "pledging himself to ISIS"? Do you have a link for that?

Oh, and he was taken into custody for a mental health evaluation. The medical professionals didn't see him as a threat.

Unless a person is an eminent threat to himself or others, you can't just lock them up.

He said voices were telling him to fight for ISIS.

The article linked in the OP does not say that.

Once again, do you have a link for that?

Federal law enforcement officials investigated Santiago last year. He told FBI agents that he heard voices in his head that told him to watch Islamic State materials, but he said he was in control and had no intention of hurting anyone, according to The New York Times.


Official: FLL shooter told FBI that gov't controlled his mind

Someone claiming they are being forced to watch ISIS videos should be locked up.

So the whole claim that he was pledging himself to a terrorist organization was something you made up? Glad you can admit that.

Unless he was a clear danger to himself or others, they let him go. First of all because he is a free citizen. And second of all because the funding for involuntary mental health lockups are almost nonexistent. Those mental hospitals like to be paid for their work.

Wow you're an idiot. The man told the FBI that voices were telling him to watch ISIS videos and join them. Joining ISIS means you pledge to commit violence, which of course he followed through on. The warning signs were there, the FBI did do some mental health examinations on him, but still failed to do enough. He was a clear danger to others.

First of all, can you show a link where he said anything about joining ISIS?

Second of all, the FBI does not do these assessments. They turned him over to professionals.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

The law should be changed so that mentally ill people can be committed and treated BEFORE they act out and kill people. At least half of these mass shootings are mentally ill people who didn't get help because the law doesn't allow their families to commit them.

The Reagan administration is responsible for hamstringing the mental health laws in this country.

IIRC, all he did was defund it and kicked the patients to the streets. Most homeless are mentally ill. No changes in the law AFAIK

It is an overstated lie Reagan kicked mentally ill from institutions. Liberal Groups like ACLU that fight for the "Right" for the insane to not be locked up, put the mentally ill on the streets.

 

[WinterBorn]

The law should be changed so that mentally ill people can be committed and treated BEFORE they act out and kill people. At least half of these mass shootings are mentally ill people who didn't get help because the law doesn't allow their families to commit them.

The Reagan administration is responsible for hamstringing the mental health laws in this country.

IIRC, all he did was defund it and kicked the patients to the streets. Most homeless are mentally ill. No changes in the law AFAIK

It is an overstated lie Reagan kicked mentally ill from institutions. Liberal Groups like ACLU that fight for the "Right" for the insane to not be locked up, put the mentally ill on the streets.

Reagan took away the funding, without looking at the specifics of any case.

The ACLU looks at specific cases and makes sure the patient's rights are not violated.

 

[miketx]

That's why those five people died.

Fort Lauderdale airport shooting suspect had visited FBI office in Alaska last year

Did the man break any laws or present himself as a danger?

Because contrary to your fantasies, you can't just lock people up because you think they are crazy. They have to actually BREAK THE LAW.

Now, there was a time when you COULD put someone away if they presented as too crazy. But Reagan did away with that shit.


So spare me the "The FBI let him go, that is why those 5 people died". The FBI has to have an actual reason to hold someone.

He was a clear danger to society. Mentally unstable and pledging himself to terrorist cause. He should had been locked up or committed into a mental ward.

Explain that so it will lead to a conviction, or confinement, and hold up in appeals court, or shut up.

 

[Divine Wind]

....If this guy presented at FBI headquarters obviously psychotic and deranged the FBI should have detained him and had a mental health professional evaluation him for possible involuntary hospitalization. The fact the FBI did not do this is clear evidence in my mind they fucked up....badly.

Scroll up, the FBI did do that and Santiago was getting mental health care. His family and relations were checked out by the FBI, but since the mental health care is not under the FBI, who do you really think fucked up?

 

[Divine Wind]

One other thing on this issue for those with family members with mental health issues. All States allow Police to detain an individual for up to 4 hours in order to get a mental health evaluation. The officer can and should do this if he has any doubt. In Virginia it is called an Emergency Custody Order.

The cops would call me, and I would go out to the scene...evaluate the individual.....and I had the power to involuntarily hospitalize if the person met the legal criteria i mentioned earlier.

After the evaluation, what do the police do? Isn't it up to the mental health experts to decide? If they turn him loose and a few months later he shoots a bunch of people, who fucked up? The police or the mental health folks?

 

[Divine Wind]

There has to be some changes with potentially dangerous people. I realize many mentally ill don't pose a threat but hearing voices of ISIS or whatever he heard is a HUGE red flag. Mentally unstable + barbaric terrorist organization = dead innocent people. They don't think he was actually connected to them but who knows.

You and I are both "potentially dangerous people". What do you propose should be done with us?

BTW, he wasn't hearing "voices of ISIS". He thought he was being controlled by a US intelligence agency to watch ISIS videos. You know, the same type of conspiracy theory bullshit you see posted by a handful of people on this forum.

 

[Divine Wind]

....The man was a veteran. His family said he was a good guy, but came back from Iraq changed. He likely was suffering from PTSD.....

Or adult onset schizophrenia. Hearing voices isn't part of PTSD, IIRC. Flashbacks are, but not voices.

 

[BlueGin]

The law should be changed so that mentally ill people can be committed and treated BEFORE they act out and kill people. At least half of these mass shootings are mentally ill people who didn't get help because the law doesn't allow their families to commit them.

The Reagan administration is responsible for hamstringing the mental health laws in this country.

IIRC, all he did was defund it and kicked the patients to the streets. Most homeless are mentally ill. No changes in the law AFAIK

Defunding is a pretty effective way to hamstring mental health laws, wouldn't you say?

So why didn't the all knowing and powerful Obozo fix that? He had 8 years and and all Democtrat congress for several of those years.

 

[Divine Wind]

So...we have another shooter examined by the Professionals.......both the FBI, and now mental health professionals......but we are to believe that these same people should be the ones who are able to strip the Right to bear arms from law abiding citizens...?

True on the face of it, but as others mentioned, I think a big part of the problem is funding. A second big part is legislation that allows certain actions that force people to get treatment. That's a dicey one since we're talking about a person's Constitutional rights.

As for funding, any thoughts on how sequestration played into this? If Trump cuts programs and cuts taxes, those cuts will happen across the board to a large extent.

 

[WinterBorn]

The law should be changed so that mentally ill people can be committed and treated BEFORE they act out and kill people. At least half of these mass shootings are mentally ill people who didn't get help because the law doesn't allow their families to commit them.

The Reagan administration is responsible for hamstringing the mental health laws in this country.

IIRC, all he did was defund it and kicked the patients to the streets. Most homeless are mentally ill. No changes in the law AFAIK

Defunding is a pretty effective way to hamstring mental health laws, wouldn't you say?

So why didn't the all knowing and powerful Obozo fix that? He had 8 years and and all Democtrat congress for several of those years.

Why ask why Obozo didn't fix it? Why not ask why the the 4 presidents since Reagan didn't fix it?

 

[2aguy]

So...we have another shooter examined by the Professionals.......both the FBI, and now mental health professionals......but we are to believe that these same people should be the ones who are able to strip the Right to bear arms from law abiding citizens...?

True on the face of it, but as others mentioned, I think a big part of the problem is funding. A second big part is legislation that allows certain actions that force people to get treatment. That's a dicey one since we're talking about a person's Constitutional rights.

As for funding, any thoughts on how sequestration played into this? If Trump cuts programs and cuts taxes, those cuts will happen across the board to a large extent.

Tax cuts send more money to the government, not less. That was shown with Kennedy and Reagan. The problem is the corrupt politicians stealing, wasting and losing money.....and spending it on everything except what really needs the money.

 

[Divine Wind]

The law should be changed so that mentally ill people can be committed and treated BEFORE they act out and kill people. At least half of these mass shootings are mentally ill people who didn't get help because the law doesn't allow their families to commit them.

The Reagan administration is responsible for hamstringing the mental health laws in this country.

IIRC, all he did was defund it and kicked the patients to the streets. Most homeless are mentally ill. No changes in the law AFAIK

It is an overstated lie Reagan kicked mentally ill from institutions. Liberal Groups like ACLU that fight for the "Right" for the insane to not be locked up, put the mentally ill on the streets.

So Reagan had nothing to do with it? History proves you wrong:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690151/
The Mental Health Systems Act had hardly become law when its provisions were rendered moot. The inauguration of Ronald Reagan in January 1981 led to an immediate reversal of policy. In the summer of 1981 the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act became law. Under its provisions, the federal government provided block grants to the states for mental health services and substance abuse, although at levels of about 75 to 80 percent of what they would have received under the Mental Health Systems Act. The states had considerable leeway in expending their allocations. With a few exceptions—notably, the patients’ bill of rights—the Mental Health Systems and CMHC Acts were repealed, thus diminishing the direct role of the federal government in mental health (Public Law 1981). The transfer and decentralization of authority merely exacerbated the existing tensions, as federal support was reduced at precisely the same time that the states were faced with social and economic problems that increased their fiscal burdens.