The € EURO thread

[KissMy]

We are in way worse shape than socialist Europe!

America's debt is greater than the combined debt of the entire Eurozone and the U.K.. As the chart shows, America's debt is currently $15.1 trillion, while the Eurozone (which includes France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain, the U.K., and others) has a combined debt of $12.7 trillion. (All dollar amounts are in U.S. dollars, and the data refers to closing 2011 numbers.)

The Eurozone is larger than the United States, so America's debt per capita also exceeds the Eurozone's. According to the Census Bureau, the U.S. has a population of 313 million, whereas the Eurozone has a population in excess of 331 million.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney frequently warns that the United States should not become like Greece. "We need to rein in government and unleash the extraordinary vitality and creativity of the American people," Romney wrote in a December op-ed. "We must not wait to suffer a crisis like Greece's or Portugal's to right the ship of state."

But with charts like this, that formulation might already be out of date, considering the enormity of America's debt burden.

 

[Trajan]

yup and Spain raising the vat to 21 from 18% is stupid too............*sigh*

 

[Wiseacre]

We are in way worse shape than socialist Europe!

America's debt is greater than the combined debt of the entire Eurozone and the U.K.. As the chart shows, America's debt is currently $15.1 trillion, while the Eurozone (which includes France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain, the U.K., and others) has a combined debt of $12.7 trillion. (All dollar amounts are in U.S. dollars, and the data refers to closing 2011 numbers.)

The Eurozone is larger than the United States, so America's debt per capita also exceeds the Eurozone's. According to the Census Bureau, the U.S. has a population of 313 million, whereas the Eurozone has a population in excess of 331 million.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney frequently warns that the United States should not become like Greece. "We need to rein in government and unleash the extraordinary vitality and creativity of the American people," Romney wrote in a December op-ed. "We must not wait to suffer a crisis like Greece's or Portugal's to right the ship of state."

But with charts like this, that formulation might already be out of date, considering the enormity of America's debt burden.

That chart was based on data as of the end of 2011. Our debt is going to exceed 16 trillion before the end of this year. As for being worse off than the EZ, not so sure. We got time to turn things around, so do they. Neither seems to be on the right track for that though.

 

[Trajan]

 

[Franticfrank]

Wow, that is quite an amount of US debt, and nobody really seems to panic about it in the same way as in Europe. I agree - something different really has to be done, the situation now is crazy. Even when you look at statistics from Germany, you don't even hear about their nearly 3 trillion in debt, yet they're the ones bailing out Europe.

 

[KissMy]

The Eurozone GDP was $17.6 Trillion in 2011 & they only had $12.7 Trillion of debt.

The US only has a GDP of $15.2 Trillion & $15.9 Trillion of debt.

Yes socialist Europe & China have kicked our ass. Our corrupt oligarchy has got to go. It is shocking how corrupt the Wallstreet / Government / Banking system is & no one has gone to jail.

 

[Indofred]

The Eurozond GDP was $17.6 Trillion in 2011 & they only had $12.7 Trillion of debt.

The US only has a GDP of $15.2 Trillion & $15.9 Trillion of debt.

Yes socialist Europe & China have kicked our ass. Our corrupt oligarchy has got to go. It is shocking how corrupt the Wallstreet banking system is & no one has gone to jail.

I haven't checked the numbers but I'll assume they're the publish figures.
The reason I haven't bothered to check is they're almost sure to be lies.
The EU never manages a set of audited accounts so no one knows what's actually happening anyway.
Any company doing that would ave been forced to close down after the first year but the Eurofools do it every year.
The whole thing was set up on lies and runs on lies.
No wonder it's in a mess.

 

[Trajan]

The Eurozond GDP was $17.6 Trillion in 2011 & they only had $12.7 Trillion of debt.

The US only has a GDP of $15.2 Trillion & $15.9 Trillion of debt.

Yes socialist Europe & China have kicked our ass. Our corrupt oligarchy has got to go. It is shocking how corrupt the Wallstreet banking system is & no one has gone to jail.

well I agree to an extent but closer to the nuts and bolts;


Updated July 13, 2012, 8:15 a.m. ET

Spanish Bank Borrowing from ECB Surges

MADRID—Spanish banks' borrowing from the European Central Bank rose at the fastest pace in three months to a record in June, as the country's lenders experienced increased stress in the weeks leading up to the announcement of a €100 billion ($122 billion) bailout for its financial sector.


Net borrowings rose to €337.21 billion in June, an increase of 17% from €287.81 billion in May, according to data released Friday by the Bank of Spain. In the past year, banks' borrowing from the ECB has sky-rocketed from €47.78 billion in June 2011, a sevenfold increase.

Gross borrowings, which strip out cash deposited at the ECB, stood at €365 billion in June, up from €324.64 billion in May, the data showed. The figure represented 30% of the gross borrowings by all euro-zone lenders, which last month stood at €1.202 trillion.


more at-
Euro-Zone Banks Cut Back Lending - WSJ.com


I am just wondering how a country with a gdp of approx. 1 Trillion euros survives with a banking system that borrows a third of its yearly output with no end in sight.
yes I know its from the 'fund', but this cannot go on for long and I guess all those stress tests were for shit to boot. Doing a quick calc. to dollars and our own Tarp etc. this is huuuuuuuuuuuge.

 

[FireFly]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN_1mF-3JTI"]The Genius of Mutual Indebtedness - Nigel Farage[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb-MWoZKYmg"]Epic Rant - Nigel Farage Was Right![/ame]

 

[Trajan]

palate cleanser time......


'Black Friday' Blame-Game Escalates As Spain Is Out Of Money In 40 Days

With Valencia bust, Spanish bonds at all-time record spreads to bunds, and yields at euro-era record highs, Spain's access to public markets for more debt is as good as closed. What is most concerning however, as FAZ reports, is that "the money will last [only] until September", and "Spain has no 'Plan B". Yesterday's market meltdown - especially at the front-end of the Spanish curve - is now being dubbed 'Black Friday' and the desperation is clear among the Spanish elite. Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo (JMGM) attacked the ECB for their inaction in the SMP (bond-buying program) as they do "nothing to stop the fire of the [Spanish] government debt" and when asked how he saw the future of the European Union, he replied that it could "not go on much longer." The riots protest rallies continue to gather pace as Black Friday saw the gravely concerned union-leaders (facing worrying austerity) calling for a second general strike (yeah - that will help) as they warn of a 'hot autumn'. It appears Spain has skipped 'worse' and gone from bad to worst as they work "to ensure that financial liabilities do not poison the national debt" - a little late we hesitate to point out.

snip-


from the best pen-pushers in the cabinet of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, another piece of bad news: Because of rising interest rates and unemployment benefits would have to increase government spending in the coming year and by 9.2 percent. As an upper limit for the next budget, he called 126 billion euros (116 this year) and estimated the proportion of debt service on up to 39 billion. So this would be the largest budget item in general.

more at-
'Black Friday' Blame-Game Escalates As Spain Is Out Of Money In 40 Days | ZeroHedge

and, their banks need .....mo' money.....its a big money hole...nothing more.

 

[Trajan]

annnnd...

Floodgates Open As Four More Spanish Regions Seek Bailout; German Nürburgring Faces Bankruptcy

Even as Europe has become an utterly dysfunctional experiment in everything relating to modern economics and monetary theory, it has one redeeming feature: it has proven that the Defection regime under Game Theory is 100% correct. It says that once the defections from an unstable Nash equilibrium begin, there is no stopping until the entire system collapses under its own weight. This is precisely what has happened in Spain, where first Catalunya, then Valencia on Friday, and now virtually everyone else is set to demand a bailout. From Bloomberg: The Balearic Islands and Catalonia are among six Spanish regions that may ask for aid from the central government after Valencia sought a bailout, El Pais reported. Castilla-La-Mancha, Murcia, the Canary Islands and possibly Andalusia are also having difficulty funding themselves and some of these regions are studying plans to tap the recently created emergency-loan fund that Valencia said it would use yesterday, the newspaper said, without citing anyone."

"Spain created the 18 billion-euro ($23 billion) bailout mechanism last week to help cash-strapped regions even as its own access to financial markets narrows." What Spain's perfectly insolvent and highly corrupt regions also know is that the bailout money, like in the case of the ESM, will be sufficient for one, perhaps two, of the applicants. The rest will be out of luck.

Floodgates Open As Four More Spanish Regions Seek Bailout; German Nürburgring Faces Bankruptcy | ZeroHedge

yup...

 

[Trajan]

"Markets overreact and are sometimes irrational," Finance Minister Luis de Guindos told Parliament on Monday. "Market swings that are to some extent speculative must be curtailed, because they could lead to undesirable situations. But in a monetary union, that doesn't correspond to governments, but to other sorts of institutions."

Review & Outlook: Spain Blames Mario - WSJ.com


how *ucked is Europe right now? seriously? for now and the next 5 years?

 

[Indofred]

The really shocking thing about all of this?
Some ruddy idiots in the UK still want the pound to be absorbed into the Euro sink hole.

The stupidity is astounding.

 

[Colin]

Just heard that due to the current economic crisis Greece is cancelling all production of houmous and taramasalata as it's a double dip recession.

 

[tigerbob]

Just heard that due to the current economic crisis Greece is cancelling all production of houmous and taramasalata as it's a double dip recession.

That was the most pitaful joke I've ever heard.

 

[Colin]

Just heard that due to the current economic crisis Greece is cancelling all production of houmous and taramasalata as it's a double dip recession.

That was the most pitaful joke I've ever heard.

A double dip recession is no joke!

 

[tigerbob]

Just heard that due to the current economic crisis Greece is cancelling all production of houmous and taramasalata as it's a double dip recession.

That was the most pitaful joke I've ever heard.

A double dip recession is no joke!

It would be the worst recession we've ever ret-seen-a.

Sorry.

 

[Colin]

That was the most pitaful joke I've ever heard.

A double dip recession is no joke!

It would be the worst recession we've ever ret-seen-a.

Sorry.

I didn't realise you spoke Chinese as well, Tiger!

 

[Colin]

That was the most pitaful joke I've ever heard.

A double dip recession is no joke!

It would be the worst recession we've ever ret-seen-a.

Sorry.

I see that Greeks are leaving in droves looking for jobs abroad. Apparently a lot have gone to the USA where they've taken jobs waiting on tables, so beware of Greeks bearing grits.

 

[tigerbob]

A double dip recession is no joke!

It would be the worst recession we've ever ret-seen-a.

Sorry.

I see that Greeks are leaving in droves looking for jobs abroad. Apparently a lot have gone to the USA where they've taken jobs waiting on tables, so beware of Greeks bearing grits.

Recession in Northern Califormia is hitting the high tech industry hard too, so beware of geeks bearing grits.