the ethics of octuplets....

[editec]

I understand fertility treatments to have a baby.

But eight babies?

Come on!

We've got 7 billion people on this planet, half of them living on less than $2 a day.

We do not need to breed like dogs.

 

[Skull Pilot]

typical

people get rewarded for being STUPID. and we get to pay for them.

even if you never wanted kids, you're a part owner of these rug rats because guess who will be gitting all kinds of assistance at taxpayer expense.

 

[Ravi]

It seems to me that this woman is off her rocker.

Then again, she didn't want to destroy her left over fertilized eggs.

Such a dilemma.

Bush likes snowflake babies and he's got a big ranch in Crawford.

I think it will be more like what Roomy has said....she is considered a celebrity now....the money is flowing in from people's generosity....a nanny or two will solve the problem...nothing is unsolvable with this situation....i see it as no big deal...

last year we had a couple of pregnant women that had 7 babies at once through invitro, who also had other children at home, here in the united states, no one complained about these women? What's going on here? Why the outrage? The nanny at the hospital says the mother is a fabulous mother with all her babies...according to the article?

My main concern is that you all think that you should have a say in what this woman does, reproductively....

I see it as absolutely NONE of our business and will fight Universal health care TOOTH AND NAIL, if THIS is what it will be like when it comes in to play....ALL OF YOU deciding for me, what is appropriate and what is not, where it relates to my own body and my own health....

it surprises me ravi, that those that take the stance of abortion being acceptable because the woman should have the right, to privacy regarding her own reproductive choices, yet every pro choice person is now saying the OPPOSITE?

quite confusing...to say the least?

care

You misunderstand me. I have no wish to limit the amount of children someone has, but that doesn't mean I cannot conclude that there is something mentally wrong with this woman.

I also think that the way the religious right has elevated a fertilized egg into the equivelent of a living human being may have had something to do with her reluctance to destroy her fertilized eggs.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I just love how abortion is considered fine and dandy and a woman's choice but BY GOD, you better not have to many kids. Last I checked the Government has NOT passed any laws limiting family size or the number of children a woman can bring to term. That would be between the family and her doctors.

But hey maybe all you turds whining about her having kids can get some of those laws passed, ehh? Remind me how we are free unless the mob doesn't like what we do?

 

[Care4all]

I understand fertility treatments to have a baby.

But eight babies?

Come on!

We've got 7 billion people on this planet, half of them living on less than $2 a day.

We do not need to breed like dogs.

so you think you SHOULD force your views on to other people who think differently editec? or is this just your opinion....but nothing should be done with it?

Please, most women do not have 8 children at once and this is a very rare exception.....you gonna make a mountain out of a mole hill too....tell ya what, she can have the quota that you all seem to have for women, of my babies that i never had...does that spread it out enough for all of you????

sheesh....

Care

ps....do i think she is missing something upstairs to take on this huge task before her, YES!!!

BUT, this was her choice to make, and her choice alone.....When she was told that 7 babies had been conceived she had the option of aborting some of the fetuses or not....she chose not to....THAT IS WHAT reproductive CHOICE is all about, no?

 

[Care4all]

It seems to me that this woman is off her rocker.

Then again, she didn't want to destroy her left over fertilized eggs.

Such a dilemma.

Bush likes snowflake babies and he's got a big ranch in Crawford.

I think it will be more like what Roomy has said....she is considered a celebrity now....the money is flowing in from people's generosity....a nanny or two will solve the problem...nothing is unsolvable with this situation....i see it as no big deal...

last year we had a couple of pregnant women that had 7 babies at once through invitro, who also had other children at home, here in the united states, no one complained about these women? What's going on here? Why the outrage? The nanny at the hospital says the mother is a fabulous mother with all her babies...according to the article?

My main concern is that you all think that you should have a say in what this woman does, reproductively....

I see it as absolutely NONE of our business and will fight Universal health care TOOTH AND NAIL, if THIS is what it will be like when it comes in to play....ALL OF YOU deciding for me, what is appropriate and what is not, where it relates to my own body and my own health....

it surprises me ravi, that those that take the stance of abortion being acceptable because the woman should have the right, to privacy regarding her own reproductive choices, yet every pro choice person is now saying the OPPOSITE?

quite confusing...to say the least?

care

You misunderstand me. I have no wish to limit the amount of children someone has, but that doesn't mean I cannot conclude that there is something mentally wrong with this woman.

I also think that the way the religious right has elevated a fertilized egg into the equivelent of a living human being may have had something to do with her reluctance to destroy her fertilized eggs.

I think she is off her rocker as well....but it is STILL none of my business...

And we do not know everything that is going on with her and WE SHOULDN'T KNOW, again, it is none of our business....

There are so many what ifs, the Tower of Babel could be rebuilt with them....

Who paid the 100k for the fertility clinics and invitros? Insurance doesn't pay for that....

Who is this ONE FATHER DONOR for all of her children? Is he dead?
is he someone she knew and loved? If he donated his sperm freely for her to have children, is he responsible for their upkeep as well?

Did she order the doctor to implant her with ALL of her remaining frozen embryos at ONCE? Or did she want just one more child and the doctor do this all on his own as it appears was the case?

only the tooth Fairy knows!

care

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's none of our business as long as we don't have to pick up the fucking tab

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's none of our business as long as we don't have to pick up the fucking tab

Ya better we pay for crack babies and methodone addicts next fix. Lets make sure we pay for all the lazy turds in public housing that haven't worked a day in their lives and they are 2nd or 3rd generation welfare queens.

You do not know she is going to get a dime from the Government.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's none of our business as long as we don't have to pick up the fucking tab

Ya better we pay for crack babies and methodone addicts next fix. Lets make sure we pay for all the lazy turds in public housing that haven't worked a day in their lives and they are 2nd or 3rd generation welfare queens.

You do not know she is going to get a dime from the Government.

right, I don't hence the phase "as long as" in my previous post.

And you have never heard me say we should pay for crack babies or any of that other shit you mentioned have you?

 

[Care4all]

It's none of our business as long as we don't have to pick up the fucking tab

its NONE of your business even IF gvt programs help pick up the TAB.....period....as it is none of your business getting involved in any one elses reproductive health choices....is how i see it.....

just like it is none of my business if you get a small business grant from the government....

 

[editec]

I understand fertility treatments to have a baby.

But eight babies?

Come on!

We've got 7 billion people on this planet, half of them living on less than $2 a day.

We do not need to breed like dogs.

so you think you SHOULD force your views on to other people who think differently editec? or is this just your opinion....but nothing should be done with it?

Force our opinions on them? No.

Encourage them to do something so stupid by paying them to do so.
Not that either.

Please, most women do not have 8 children at once and this is a very rare exception.....you gonna make a mountain out of a mole hill too....tell ya what, she can have the quota that you all seem to have for women, of my babies that i never had...does that spread it out enough for all of you????

This woman is having eight babies at once.

The cost of keeping those premmies alive during their first year of life, will exceed your entire lifetime's income.

We are ALL paying for that, an Care, that is NUTS.

sheesh....

Sheesh indeed.

Care

ps....do i think she is missing something upstairs to take on this huge task before her, YES!!!

One of the things she's apparently missing, CARE is a social conscience.

BUT, this was her choice to make, and her choice alone.....When she was told that 7 babies had been conceived she had the option of aborting some of the fetuses or not....she chose not to....THAT IS WHAT reproductive CHOICE is all about, no?

If she'd taking fertility pills, and she decides that she wants to bring 8 babies to term you know god damened well that she is going to demand and get help to keep them alive in their first year of life.

So it IS our busines, Care, in THIS KIND OF CASE.

Our society will spend a fortune to keep these 8 babies alive but they'll allow 8,000 children to live in squalor because they are NOT SCIENCE FICTION FREAKS.

Yeah, the money the'll be spending on these fertility drug produced babies probably would do MUCH to make the lives of the children we already have in this nation much better.

Put it into some kind of reasonable persepctive, Care.

Don't trap yourself in some kind of goody idealistic notion that FREEDOM means ABSOLUTE FREEDOM.

It doesn't and it cannot because we are all SOCIAL CREATURES..including this mother and her now extant 8 premmies.

REproductive freedom is NOT a societal suicide pact.

 

[jillian]

its NONE of your business even IF gvt programs help pick up the TAB.....period....as it is none of your business getting involved in any one elses reproductive health choices....is how i see it.....

just like it is none of my business if you get a small business grant from the government....

Everyone has their things that they don't want to pay for.

The larger issue here is the lack of ethics of a fertility specialist who would a) implant 8 pre-embryos in a woman; and b) who would perform an in vitro on someone with six children.

Then there's the psychology of the person who felt the need to have 14 children while not living with their father and living off of her poor mother.

 

[Care4all]

I understand fertility treatments to have a baby.

But eight babies?

Come on!

We've got 7 billion people on this planet, half of them living on less than $2 a day.

We do not need to breed like dogs.

Force our opinions on them? No.

Encourage them to do something so stupid by paying them to do so.
Not that either.





This woman is having eight babies at once.

The cost of keeping those premmies alive during their first year of life, will exceed your entire lifetime's income.

We are ALL paying for that, an Care, that is NUTS.



Sheesh indeed.

Care



One of the things she's apparently missing, CARE is a social conscience.

BUT, this was her choice to make, and her choice alone.....When she was told that 7 babies had been conceived she had the option of aborting some of the fetuses or not....she chose not to....THAT IS WHAT reproductive CHOICE is all about, no?

If she'd taking fertility pills, and she decides that she wants to bring 8 babies to term you know god damened well that she is going to demand and get help to keep them alive in their first year of life.

So it IS our busines, Care, in THIS KIND OF CASE.

REproductive freedom is NOT a suicide pact.

Editec, why do you think the gvt is paying for this instead of Insurance?

She wanted one more baby from what the articles say....the fertility doctor either implanted all 8 or maybe just 4 or five of them and they divided in to twins on their own....to end up being 8.....her not aborting the extra ones, is what it comes down to, and it appears that she did not want to choose which ones to kill and chose to keep them all, even though her life could be at risk....and by law, us women, have that choice....all of us do...even if it is a high risk pregnancy, where we could die, WE HAVE the final say of our own destiny and we have final say on whether to keep our child to be, or not...PERIOD.

all of her children BUT ONE is breathing on it's own, with absolutely NO SPECIAL preme CARE needed....

Obviously, her body was meant to handle a load or litter such as this....it could have turned out much different, but IT DIDN'T.

Editec, this is such a slippery slope....next, you will determine that someone can't get the medical care for lung cancer, because gvt funds pays for part it....or not at all because the person smoked and gave the lung cancer to themselves!

care

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's none of our business as long as we don't have to pick up the fucking tab

its NONE of your business even IF gvt programs help pick up the TAB.....period....as it is none of your business getting involved in any one elses reproductive health choices....is how i see it.....

just like it is none of my business if you get a small business grant from the government....

FYI i received no grants, no government backed loans etc.

And where my taxes go IS my business.

I don't give a rats ass if some woman wants to breed like a fucking rabbit but I have every right to say that if one breeds like a rabbit and can't support the brood, then that person is irresponsible and I should not have to pay for that "choice"

 

[Care4all]

its NONE of your business even IF gvt programs help pick up the TAB.....period....as it is none of your business getting involved in any one elses reproductive health choices....is how i see it.....

just like it is none of my business if you get a small business grant from the government....

Everyone has their things that they don't want to pay for.

The larger issue here is the lack of ethics of a fertility specialist who would a) implant 8 pre-embryos in a woman; and b) who would perform an in vitro on someone with six children.

Then there's the psychology of the person who felt the need to have 14 children while not living with their father and living off of her poor mother.

I agree something is fishy regarding the doctor who did such, but won't the AMA ethics commission handle this themselves?

she and the Doctor at this point, broke no laws....though the doctor did go beyond what is considered the norm in the AMA on implantation...IF HE REALLY DID implant all 8 of them, which is very possible, he DID NOT do such....and she just had some of the eggs split in to twins.....we just do not know any of this....we have only heard from the doctors that took care of her during prenatal care and delivery....we don't know how or when she got her invitro done....

What about the two women last year that had 7 babies at once, who also had children at home.... was this all A OK with everyone because they had Fathers present and part of the ordeal?

and one last thing jilli, her mother...reared her...so if she has mental problems that were not inherent, it probably came from the instability of her own environment....which includes her mother, either way....

I wouldn't say the grandma is a saint, until i knew the nitty gritty of which I will never know....because it is none of my business....

Where this woman went nutzoid, imho, is not when she chose to have her 7th child, but when she was told that she had all of those babies inside her and she needed to make a decision on what to do....

the article says that no woman in this condition with all the hormones flowing from pregnancy and mental state of such, could make a sound decision under these circumstances and this is why the Doctor should have used undue influence to make her understand the difficulty ahead, physically and mentally if she kept them all in tact.

So, even with her choosing to keep them all can be explained as a temporary insanity....

She was not forced to have these multiple children like Andrea Yates, she chose to and there is nothing in the article that says she suffered from any kind of postpartum distress syndrome on previous pregnancies.....?

I don't know why she has this thing for being a mother and having babies, it seems a bit weird to me, especially since she is single....as far as we know....since we have no idea who the donor is, the father of all 14....that volunteered his sperm....whether it was someone she knew, or didn't know and all that kind of stuff....

Either way, I am certain she is not alone....that there are other women out there in the world that think the same as her....and churn out babies one right after another because of the same kind of feelings as hers....only she could not do such, because of her fallopian tube damage....thus the inviro....

I guess it could be some sort of disease, like the women who go back, time and time again, for just one more thing for the Plastic surgeon to cut, laser, needle stitch to fix, to make her perfect....we hear about these things and questions about whether Plasic surgeons are unethical to continue to perform surgeries on these women....but it is still up to the woman, and her doctor and we haven't legislated such....

To legislate something like this, via the government, vs via the AMA and what guideline they may choose to initiate, is just a government over reach imo, especially since there has been only this case, in the usa....one measly case, where ethics has come in to question, ya know?

care

 

[Seraph]

I don't agree with her having so many children, I think it's selfish and irresponsible.
This planet has a finite amount of resources and 6.7 billion humans is more than enough.

I know overpopulation isn't a popular subject, because in a capitalist society the horror of having less customers doesn't bear thinking about. But I reckon pretty soon it's going to become an issue we can't ignore any more.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't agree with her having so many children, I think it's selfish and irresponsible.
This planet has a finite amount of resources and 6.7 billion humans is more than enough.

I know overpopulation isn't a popular subject, because in a capitalist society the horror of having less customers doesn't bear thinking about. But I reckon pretty soon it's going to become an issue we can't ignore any more.

Agreed---it's a topic that we seem to want to ingore for as long as we can. Maybe a huge war, famine or disease will enbale us to ignore it a while longer.

 

[editec]

Editec, why do you think the gvt is paying for this instead of Insurance?

Am I wrong? And if her insurance compan is paying for that I will be EXTREMELY surprised.

She wanted one more baby from what the articles say....the fertility doctor either implanted all 8 or maybe just 4 or five of them and they divided in to twins on their own....to end up being 8.....her not aborting the extra ones, is what it comes down to, and it appears that she did not want to choose which ones to kill and chose to keep them all, even though her life could be at risk....and by law, us women, have that choice....all of us do...even if it is a high risk pregnancy, where we could die, WE HAVE the final say of our own destiny and we have final say on whether to keep our child to be, or not...PERIOD.

If she wanted ONE child, and the fertility doctor is responsible for this then HE OUGHT TO PAY FOR THESE KIDS.

all of her children BUT ONE is breathing on it's own, with absolutely NO SPECIAL preme CARE needed....

Surprising.

Obviously, her body was meant to handle a load or litter such as this....it could have turned out much different, but IT DIDN'T.

\

Shit happens.

Editec, this is such a slippery slope....next, you will determine that someone can't get the medical care for lung cancer, because gvt funds pays for part it....or not at all because the person smoked and gave the lung cancer to themselves!

care

No, it is NOT slippery at all, Care.


My complain is very specifically addressed to fertility enhancment leading to woman knowingly or unexpectently having litters of children.

Given that you tell me she did not want 8 kids, I am more sympathetic to her personally, and furious with her doctor for allowing that to happen.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Usual fascist bullshit from the left. We are all free as long as we only do what the left thinks is good and right. Do anything else and you should have no rights.

This is EXACTLY how the left thinks. They play word games with freedom. What they mean is your free to do what ever the left thinks is acceptable. Anything else should be restricted or prevented, forceably if needed.

We see it repeatedly on this board. Do as I think you should or I will try and make a law to force you to do it or prevent you. Then the left has the balls to claim the right wants to restrict rights.

This woman had EVERY damn right to have those children. Further she had the right to take drugs to have children and if she had them implanted she had THAT right as well.

It is NONE of the rest of you's business why she had them. You do not yet get to tell women how many kids they can and can not have. You may be hoping for such a law but so far it hasn't been passed.

I love how the left just loves the right to abort on demand. To murder unborn children and then has a FIT when some woman decides to have more than one child. It was the MOTHERS call. SIMPLE and STRAIGHT forward.

You do not like it? To fucking bad.

Editic would have the Government seize and run the entire health care industry at all levels and at all stages and guess what he would do if this happened under those conditions? he would demand the babies be aborted.

Jillian is on record as claiming anyone that has more than about 2 kids is mentally unstable and selfish. Why? Cause she can not fathom anyone raising more than one child. She has claimed it is CHILD ABUSE to have more then several children or some magic number she gets to pick for everyone.

These two are perfect examples of the mind set of the left. We know best, the rest of you are to stupid to make decisions for your self, so we will make them by creating laws to restrict you.

 

[Ravi]

Anyone that repeatedly gets pregnant in these circumstances needs mental help just like anyone that racked up fourteen abortions would need mental help.

There is something wrong with someone's brain when they act in such an extreme manner.

Perhaps the only thing we need to worry here is better mental health care for all citizens.