the ethics of octuplets....

[Sky Dancer]

i would think most of the "busy bodies" on this forum limited their children to the number they could afford...i know i did...now why should i pay for this mental case to have children like this....think andrea yates

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

 

[Anguille]

This is the United States, not Communist China. We do not legislate family size. If you object to large families--consider that many religious groups do not believe in contraception, of any kind, except abstinence.

We have separation of church and state. Anguille, you may not approve of large families but you don't get to decide to should or shouldn't get an abortion.

Hello??? Did you read my posts?? Where do I say I get to decide who should and who shouldn't get to have an abortion?

 

[Sky Dancer]

This is the United States, not Communist China. We do not legislate family size. If you object to large families--consider that many religious groups do not believe in contraception, of any kind, except abstinence.

We have separation of church and state. Anguille, you may not approve of large families but you don't get to decide to should or shouldn't get an abortion.

Hello??? Did you read my posts?? Where do I say I get to decide who should and who shouldn't get to have an abortion?

You didn't say that, and I do not imply that you do. What you are saying is you judge this woman for having six children. You can judge her, but YOU don't get to tell her how many children she can bear.

She decides that. We don't have laws on family size.

 

[Anguille]

Just try walking in the shoes of this woman. None of us know her, do we?

Walking in the shoes of a woman with 14 children. No thank you.

I think most likely she's mentally ill. If not, she's a selfish idiot.

 

[Said1]

i would think most of the "busy bodies" on this forum limited their children to the number they could afford...i know i did...now why should i pay for this mental case to have children like this....think andrea yates

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Just try walking in the shoes of this woman. None of us know her, do we?

Walking in the shoes of a woman with 12 children. No thank you.

I think most likely she's mentally ill. If not, she's a selfish idiot.

Exactly. You judge her harshly, yet you're not willing to even imagine what it's like to BE her.

 

[Care4all]

i would think most of the "busy bodies" on this forum limited their children to the number they could afford...i know i did...now why should i pay for this mental case to have children like this....think andrea yates

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

all of her children, all 14 were invitro i thought, no?

 

[Sky Dancer]

i would think most of the "busy bodies" on this forum limited their children to the number they could afford...i know i did...now why should i pay for this mental case to have children like this....think andrea yates

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

Why not? It's not against the law, is it? Do you favor the state limiting family size? Do you favor forced sterilization of the mentally ill or developmentally delayed?

Think Nazi Germany.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Should 40 year old women be able to bear children by in vitro fertilization? Should single women be prohibited by law from child bearing? The major complication of IVF is the risk of multiple births. Should in vitro fertilization be outlawed because of potential multiple births?

 

[Anguille]

This is the United States, not Communist China. We do not legislate family size. If you object to large families--consider that many religious groups do not believe in contraception, of any kind, except abstinence.

We have separation of church and state. Anguille, you may not approve of large families but you don't get to decide to should or shouldn't get an abortion.

Hello??? Did you read my posts?? Where do I say I get to decide who should and who shouldn't get to have an abortion?

You didn't say that, and I do not imply that you do. What you are saying is you judge this woman for having six children. You can judge her, but YOU don't get to tell her how many children she can bear.

She decides that. We don't have laws on family size.

We should. We already have laws which unfortunately encourage people to have too many kids. Too many kids means the kids are not going to get the attention they need. Neglect equals abuse. Abused children should be removed from abusive parents.

 

[Said1]

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

all of her children, all 14 were invitro i thought, no?

I only read she had 6 other children, no mention of methods, it's possible.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hello??? Did you read my posts?? Where do I say I get to decide who should and who shouldn't get to have an abortion?

You didn't say that, and I do not imply that you do. What you are saying is you judge this woman for having six children. You can judge her, but YOU don't get to tell her how many children she can bear.

She decides that. We don't have laws on family size.

We should. We already have laws which unfortunately encourage people to have too many kids. Too many kids means the kids are not going to get the attention they need. Neglect equals abuse. Abused children should be removed from abusive parents.

Move to Communist China. The government decides how many children a family can have there. Forcibly limiting family size is wrong.

The story of this one woman's family is interesting. How quickly we all judge her. Do any of us know her? No.

They are trying to legislate family size in Rwanda. It's not going to happen because of the recent genocide. What is this one woman's story? All we have is a sketch of her life.

Does this woman feel her life has any meaning unless she is giving birth and parenting?

 

[Anguille]

Just try walking in the shoes of this woman. None of us know her, do we?

Walking in the shoes of a woman with 12 children. No thank you.

I think most likely she's mentally ill. If not, she's a selfish idiot.

Exactly. You judge her harshly, yet you're not willing to even imagine what it's like to BE her.

I certainly can imagine what it means to be mentally ill or a selfish idiot.

But I don't need to imagine what her feelings are. She and her doctors did something very unethical and her feelings about it don't change that.

 

[Anguille]

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

all of her children, all 14 were invitro i thought, no?

I think I read that the ages of her other six kids run from 2 to 7 so I would guess no.

 

[Anguille]

You didn't say that, and I do not imply that you do. What you are saying is you judge this woman for having six children. You can judge her, but YOU don't get to tell her how many children she can bear.

She decides that. We don't have laws on family size.

We should. We already have laws which unfortunately encourage people to have too many kids. Too many kids means the kids are not going to get the attention they need. Neglect equals abuse. Abused children should be removed from abusive parents.

Move to Communist China. The government decides how many children a family can have there. Forcibly limiting family size is wrong.

The story of this one woman's family is interesting. How quickly we all judge her.

I guess you don't care about the rights of the children, just about the mother. Children aren't possessions, if you can't give them proper care, they will and should be removed and placed in foster care and hopefully adopted by people who can care for them.

 

[Said1]

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

Why not? It's not against the law, is it? Do you favor the state limiting family size? Do you favor forced sterilization of the mentally ill or developmentally delayed?

Think Nazi Germany.

I won't address your strawmen, abortion isn't the issue, IVF as it was implemented is.

Just because somethign isn't against the law does not mean it's right.

I support limiting family size through the use of IVF for those who are mentally ill and unable to take care of themselves without help. I'm not talking about eugenics, I'm thinking about the safety of the children.

Why would you support someone who probably has difficulty taking care of themselves due to mental and physical limitations should having 14 children?

 

[Sky Dancer]

We should. We already have laws which unfortunately encourage people to have too many kids. Too many kids means the kids are not going to get the attention they need. Neglect equals abuse. Abused children should be removed from abusive parents.

Move to Communist China. The government decides how many children a family can have there. Forcibly limiting family size is wrong.

The story of this one woman's family is interesting. How quickly we all judge her.

I guess you don't care about the rights of the children, just about the mother. Children aren't possessions, if you can't give them proper care, they will and should be removed and placed in foster care and hopefully adopted by people who can care for them.

You don't know shit about me if you think I don't care about children.

 

[Againsheila]

If this woman wants to live at home with her parents and have 14 children what's it to you?

Did you not read the part where the grandmother said that when she came home with the other 8 kids, she would be gone??? This woman is gonna end up raising 14 kids on her own, who do you think is gonna help her? I know I could barely handle one infant at a time, with my husband. 8 infants, no father and no help, she's putting ALL her kids in danger.

 

[Againsheila]

Anguille--

The thread is primarily about bashing the mother not addressing the ethics of the doctor who implanted the eight embryos. This woman wanted ONE more child.

How many of the posters who are bashing the mother are anti-abortion proponents? How many of you complaining about this woman having 14 children would have been appalled if she aborted any of her pregnancies?

What should she have done? Aborted seven out of eight because she only wanted one more child?

Actually, the woman has an "obsession" about having children. Nothing about raising them, just about having them, and it's called "obsession compulsive disorder". I hardly think the right treatment for her was to implant her with more children. She needs a psychiatrist. The doctor who did the implantation should be sued.

 

[Againsheila]

no question she seems to have mental problems... i'm surprised her original doctor did not note such, before he implanted all 8 eggs in to her....?

Regardless, it still isn't the gvts business nor ours....it is hers and her doctors....regardless of any welfare she may or may not get.

is this what it will be like when and if universal health care gets instituted? Where all of you guys get a say in my medical decisions and my health?

I'll pass.....if that's the case.

care

Forget about the welfare, think about what she's doing to her children. This woman is obsessed with having children, not raising them. 8 kids at once, you know some, if not all of them are going to have learning disabilities and she did this on purpose.

What about the 6 children she already has, don't you think they deserve a mother that can take care of them rather than a mother that is going to rely on them to care for their younger siblings?