the ethics of octuplets....

[Anguille]

Move to Communist China. The government decides how many children a family can have there. Forcibly limiting family size is wrong.

The story of this one woman's family is interesting. How quickly we all judge her.

I guess you don't care about the rights of the children, just about the mother. Children aren't possessions, if you can't give them proper care, they will and should be removed and placed in foster care and hopefully adopted by people who can care for them.

You don't know shit about me if you think I don't care about children.

So why would you think one woman would be capable of providing adequate maternal love and attention to 14 children, 8 of then infants? How is she even going to manage to produce enough milk? In most large families it is the older kids who end up having to provide some of the care for the younger ones. The older kids are deprived of their childhood and the younger one's are being left in the care of other children. Rich women might have the means to hire au pairs to help out, but nannies still can't replace the love of a parent.

 

[Anguille]

Anguille--

The thread is primarily about bashing the mother not addressing the ethics of the doctor who implanted the eight embryos. This woman wanted ONE more child.

How many of the posters who are bashing the mother are anti-abortion proponents? How many of you complaining about this woman having 14 children would have been appalled if she aborted any of her pregnancies?

What should she have done? Aborted seven out of eight because she only wanted one more child?

Actually, the woman has an "obsession" about having children. Nothing about raising them, just about having them, and it's called "obsession compulsive disorder". I hardly think the right treatment for her was to implant her with more children. She needs a psychiatrist. The doctor who did the implantation should be sued.

Sounds believable to me. A child hoarder. She's probably like those people that collect so many cats that the SPCA has to come and removed dead and starving cats from their homes.

 

[Annie]

I guess you don't care about the rights of the children, just about the mother. Children aren't possessions, if you can't give them proper care, they will and should be removed and placed in foster care and hopefully adopted by people who can care for them.

You don't know shit about me if you think I don't care about children.

So why would you think one woman would be capable of providing adequate maternal love and attention to 14 children, 8 of then infants? How is she even going to manage to produce enough milk? In most large families it is the older kids who end up having to provide some of the care for the younger ones. The older kids are deprived of their childhood and the younger one's are being left in the care of other children. Rich women might have the means to hire au pairs to help out, but nannies still can't replace the love of a parent.

Truth is the older kids caring for younger is as old as time itself, then again, women didn't use IV back then and have litters of kids. No, then it was the older ones in big families divving up the younger ones. While may sometimes be a burden, most of the time esteem building. Not in this case.

In this case, the mother is a selfish person, without will or means to care for any of the 14. She didn't even have a father and some idiot doc went along with her. They should both be brought up on child neglect charges.

 

[Againsheila]

Just try walking in the shoes of this woman. None of us know her, do we?

I know, "Don't judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes, that way, when you do judge them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes."

I wouldn't want to know this woman. Nor would I want to walk in her shoes. Even her own mother wants to abandon her now that she has 14 kids and no husband.

 

[Annie]

Just try walking in the shoes of this woman. None of us know her, do we?

No offense, but what a lame cop out.

 

[Againsheila]

Does that make you happy? Are lesbians inherently bad parents?

Me personally, I'd rather see a couple of lesbians raising kids than this single mother. Children raised with two parents do better on every measurable level than children raised in single parent households. There is a reason it takes two to have a child...it takes two to raise that child. What's mom gonna do when she gets home with her 8 more kids and her own mother has abandoned her?

 

[Anguille]

The major complication of IVF is the risk of multiple births. Should in vitro fertilization be outlawed because of potential multiple births?

It should be regulated so that this doesn't happen again. If women receiving the treatment inform the doctor's that they would refuse to abort any of the excess fetuses that might result, then the doctors should not implant them with probably more than one or two embryos, just in case those embryos split. No woman should be put at risk for having so many children at once. Not fair to her or to the children that might survive.

 

[Againsheila]

Move to Communist China. The government decides how many children a family can have there. Forcibly limiting family size is wrong.

The story of this one woman's family is interesting. How quickly we all judge her.

I guess you don't care about the rights of the children, just about the mother. Children aren't possessions, if you can't give them proper care, they will and should be removed and placed in foster care and hopefully adopted by people who can care for them.

You don't know shit about me if you think I don't care about children.

Well, in all honesty here, you do seem more concerned about the mother than the children.

 

[Againsheila]

Because this 'mental case' is a human being. Do you think the mentally ill should have their tubes tied? Think Mengele.

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

all of her children, all 14 were invitro i thought, no?

yep

Permanente Bellflower Medical Center, shows the nursing staff posing for …

* Octuplets born in Calif. hospital Slideshow: Octuplets born in Calif. hospital
* Mom of octuplets has six children at home Play Video Video: Mom of octuplets has six children at home AP
* Ethics of Octuplets Play Video Video: Ethics of Octuplets ABC News

LOS ANGELES – The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said.

Grandma: Octuplets mom obsessed with having kids - Yahoo! News

 

[Anguille]

LOS ANGELES – The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said.

Grandma: Octuplets mom obsessed with having kids - Yahoo! News

"Nadya Suleman holds a 2006 degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, and as late as last spring she was studying for a master's degree in counseling, college spokeswoman Paula Selleck told the Press-Telegram. "



"
Nadya Suleman wanted to have children since she was a teenager, "but luckily she couldn't," her mother said.
"Instead of becoming a kindergarten teacher or something, she started having them, but not the normal way," he mother said.
Her daughter's obsession with children caused Angela Suleman considerable stress, so she sought help from a psychologist, who told her to order her daughter out of the house."

 

[random3434]

Nadya Suleman holds a 2006 degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, and as late as last spring she was studying for a master's degree in counseling, college spokeswoman Paula Selleck told the Press-Telegram.

A few of my thoughts:


~How in the heck does she have the time and money to go to Grad School with 6 kids? (before she got pregnant)

~How does she afford all the things needed for 6 kids, now 14 kids? I struggle with ONE kid to support!

~I hope she truly does love children, and she's not just doing it in hopes of landing some reality show, like that one on cable, Jon and Kate make 8. This is a reality show society though.


~Do you really think her mom is going to kick her out of her house now, after all the media attention?

 

[Againsheila]

Nadya Suleman holds a 2006 degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, and as late as last spring she was studying for a master's degree in counseling, college spokeswoman Paula Selleck told the Press-Telegram.

A few of my thoughts:


~How in the heck does she have the time and money to go to Grad School with 6 kids? (before she got pregnant)

~How does she afford all the things needed for 6 kids, now 14 kids? I struggle with ONE kid to support!

~I hope she truly does love children, and she's not just doing it in hopes of landing some reality show, like that one on cable, Jon and Kate make 8. This is a reality show society though.


~Do you really think her mom is going to kick her out of her house now, after all the media attention?

The mom gave her an ultimatum. A good parent always follows through and never makes threats they won't or can't carry out.

 

[Anguille]

Nadya Suleman holds a 2006 degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, and as late as last spring she was studying for a master's degree in counseling, college spokeswoman Paula Selleck told the Press-Telegram.

A few of my thoughts:


~How in the heck does she have the time and money to go to Grad School with 6 kids? (before she got pregnant)

~How does she afford all the things needed for 6 kids, now 14 kids? I struggle with ONE kid to support!

~I hope she truly does love children, and she's not just doing it in hopes of landing some reality show, like that one on cable, Jon and Kate make 8. This is a reality show society though.


~Do you really think her mom is going to kick her out of her house now, after all the media attention?

It will be interesting to find out where she got the money to do that!

I don't think she loves kids. I think she collects them like trophies.

I feel sorry for her mother. Her mother sounds like she's gone through a lot because of her daughter's obsession. Now she will be torn between knowing she that to preserve her own sanity she has to separate herself from her crazy daughter and worrying about what will happen to her 14 grandchildren if she does.

 

[Care4all]

The Doctor is the problem here, not the woman....

How could she afford to have her own embryos fertilized and frozen is beyond me....there is more to this story than what we are getting and I must say, most all of you have come to conclusions that are pretty darn right presumptuous....i even did the same in one of my posts, and quite frankly, we have no idea on what happened here and once againl it is none of our business.....no one broke any laws....And the AMA can make their own rules on how many or how few embryos to implant....

I disagree about large families not being healthy families....

my Italian grandmother had 12 siblings, if you had sex with your husband alot, that's just the way it was in my great grandmom's time.... all 12 of my great uncles and aunts were well established, healthy, normal human beings....with large loving families themselves.



This woman will have no trouble raising these kids....the generosity of others and their help being nannies for them and helping her will be forth coming, you watch and see....

For all of them to turn out fairly healthy is a miracle as far as I am concerned, and i wish them the very best!

Did it say that all children have the same father as well?

Care

 

[KittenKoder]

Octuplets: Eight times the ethical questions - CNN.com


many questions have been raised? why would a woman with 6 kids have fertility treatments? what doctors implanted 8 fertilized eggs? what do you think?

Humans are livestock ... only the slaughter house was closed too soon.

 

[Luissa]

Even though you're analogy is off, you're asserting that the mentally ill should have 14 children, half invetro, if they want?

all of her children, all 14 were invitro i thought, no?

I only read she had 6 other children, no mention of methods, it's possible.

If you read the article Strolling posted I believe it said she was never able to have children and all have been through invitro!

 

[Luissa]

The Doctor is the problem here, not the woman....

How could she afford to have her own embryos fertilized and frozen is beyond me....there is more to this story than what we are getting and I must say, most all of you have come to conclusions that are pretty darn right presumptuous....i even did the same in one of my posts, and quite frankly, we have no idea on what happened here and once againl it is none of our business.....no one broke any laws....And the AMA can make their own rules on how many or how few embryos to implant....

I disagree about large families not being healthy families....

my Italian grandmother had 12 siblings, if you had sex with your husband alot, that's just the way it was in my great grandmom's time.... all 12 of my great uncles and aunts were well established, healthy, normal human beings....with large loving families themselves.



This woman will have no trouble raising these kids....the generosity of others and their help being nannies for them and helping her will be forth coming, you watch and see....

For all of them to turn out fairly healthy is a miracle as far as I am concerned, and i wish them the very best!

Did it say that all children have the same father as well?

Care

I think they mentioned something about all them having the same sperm donor but only four of them have a name listed on their birth certificate!

 

[strollingbones]

they all are from the same sperm donor...so they are all full on brothers and sisters..this is just crazy....14 kids...care you are a sweetie but a bit of a polly anna...the novelty will wear off....and then who is gonna be there to help?

 

[Ravi]

It seems to me that this woman is off her rocker.

Then again, she didn't want to destroy her left over fertilized eggs.

Such a dilemma.

Bush likes snowflake babies and he's got a big ranch in Crawford.

 

[Care4all]

It seems to me that this woman is off her rocker.

Then again, she didn't want to destroy her left over fertilized eggs.

Such a dilemma.

Bush likes snowflake babies and he's got a big ranch in Crawford.

I think it will be more like what Roomy has said....she is considered a celebrity now....the money is flowing in from people's generosity....a nanny or two will solve the problem...nothing is unsolvable with this situation....i see it as no big deal...

last year we had a couple of pregnant women that had 7 babies at once through invitro, who also had other children at home, here in the united states, no one complained about these women? What's going on here? Why the outrage? The nanny at the hospital says the mother is a fabulous mother with all her babies...according to the article?

My main concern is that you all think that you should have a say in what this woman does, reproductively....

I see it as absolutely NONE of our business and will fight Universal health care TOOTH AND NAIL, if THIS is what it will be like when it comes in to play....ALL OF YOU deciding for me, what is appropriate and what is not, where it relates to my own body and my own health....

it surprises me ravi, that those that take the stance of abortion being acceptable because the woman should have the right, to privacy regarding her own reproductive choices, yet every pro choice person is now saying the OPPOSITE?

quite confusing...to say the least?

care