The difference

[IM2]

Precisely because white denial has long trumped claims of racism, people of color tend to underreport their experiences with racial bias, rather than exaggerate them. Again, when it comes to playing a race card, it is more accurate to say that whites are the dealers with the loaded decks, shooting down any evidence of racism as little more than the fantasies of unhinged blacks, unwilling to take personal responsibility for their own problems in life.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, has to do with race nowadays, in the eyes of white America writ large. But the obvious question is this: if we have never seen racism as a real problem, contemporary to the time in which the charges are being made, and if in all generations past we were obviously wrong to the point of mass delusion in thinking this way, what should lead us to conclude that now, at long last, we’ve become any more astute at discerning social reality than we were before? Why should we trust our own perceptions or instincts on the matter, when we have run up such an amazingly bad track record as observers of the world in which we live? In every era, black folks said they were the victims of racism and they were right. In every era, whites have said the problem was exaggerated, and we have been wrong.

Unless we wish to conclude that black insight on the matter–which has never to this point failed them–has suddenly converted to irrationality, and that white irrationality has become insight (and are prepared to prove this transformation by way of some analytical framework to explain the process), then the best advice seems to be that which could have been offered in past decades and centuries: namely, if you want to know about whether or not racism is a problem, it would probably do you best to ask the folks who are its targets. They, after all, are the ones who must, as a matter of survival, learn what it is, and how and when it’s operating. We whites on the other hand, are the persons who have never had to know a thing about it, and who–for reasons psychological, philosophical and material–have always had a keen interest in covering it up.

In short, and let us be clear on it: race is not a card. It determines whom the dealer is, and who gets dealt.

Race card Race card, whose got the race card?

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

White America, It’s YOUR Harvest Time

"White America has been living by the sword"? What are black and Hispanic gang members using, Nerf guns?

Attempting to divert from what the man was referring to only shows how much you desire to deny reality. For who did these guys get the guns from? I don't think either one of these groups has anyone owning a gun manufacturing plant.

If a gun manufacturer puts a gun in your hand, are you obligated to murder someone with it? Besides, Civilian Force Arms, is a black-owned gun manufacturer. Among other products, they produce AR-15 and AK-47 type "assault" rifles.

This man was talking about how whites came to control this country. Neither black or Hispanic gangs control this nation.

You're not getting out of it that easy. You're the one who brought up gun manufacturers as if that somehow absolves minorities of the crime of murder.

"You're under arrest for the shooting death of a rival gang member. Oh, you're black and you didn't manufacture the gun? Okay, you're free to go."

Say what you will about violent white history but black men are killing each other off much faster than we ever could. And as I've already shown you, not all gun manufacturers are white anyway.

 

[IM2]

White America, It’s YOUR Harvest Time

"White America has been living by the sword"? What are black and Hispanic gang members using, Nerf guns?

Attempting to divert from what the man was referring to only shows how much you desire to deny reality. For who did these guys get the guns from? I don't think either one of these groups has anyone owning a gun manufacturing plant.

If a gun manufacturer puts a gun in your hand, are you obligated to murder someone with it? Besides, Civilian Force Arms, is a black-owned gun manufacturer. Among other products, they produce AR-15 and AK-47 type "assault" rifles.

This man was talking about how whites came to control this country. Neither black or Hispanic gangs control this nation.

You're not getting out of it that easy. You're the one who brought up gun manufacturers as if that somehow absolves minorities of the crime of murder.

"You're under arrest for the shooting death of a rival gang member. Oh, you're black and you didn't manufacture the gun? Okay, you're free to go."

Say what you will about violent white history but black men are killing each other off much faster than we ever could. And as I've already shown you, not all gun manufacturers are white anyway.

No, you don't get to change the subject because we are talking about WHITES. This thread is about WHITES not anyone else.

.

 

[IM2]

The Disconnect

 

[IM2]

WHY WON'T WHITE PEOPLE HELP TO END THE INSANITY THEY STARTED?

 

[IM2]

DENYING RACISM IN AMERICA ... IS THE NEW RACISM

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

"White America has been living by the sword"? What are black and Hispanic gang members using, Nerf guns?

Attempting to divert from what the man was referring to only shows how much you desire to deny reality. For who did these guys get the guns from? I don't think either one of these groups has anyone owning a gun manufacturing plant.

If a gun manufacturer puts a gun in your hand, are you obligated to murder someone with it? Besides, Civilian Force Arms, is a black-owned gun manufacturer. Among other products, they produce AR-15 and AK-47 type "assault" rifles.

This man was talking about how whites came to control this country. Neither black or Hispanic gangs control this nation.

You're not getting out of it that easy. You're the one who brought up gun manufacturers as if that somehow absolves minorities of the crime of murder.

"You're under arrest for the shooting death of a rival gang member. Oh, you're black and you didn't manufacture the gun? Okay, you're free to go."

Say what you will about violent white history but black men are killing each other off much faster than we ever could. And as I've already shown you, not all gun manufacturers are white anyway.

No, you don't get to change the subject because we are talking about WHITES. This thread is about WHITES not anyone else.

.

Right, we're talking about white violence. But, in order to gain a proper perspective on white violence, it behooves us to honestly look at human violence objectively and cite violence of other races and cultures.

You assumed wrongly that all gun manufacturers are white but now that you are better informed than you were a day ago, you have a wider perspective on the issue and can approach the matter with a more objective eye. If you so choose.

 

[MizMolly]

WHITE ON WHITE CRIME



Why can't whites talk about white on white crime?

we can. The real difference? It is that I don't condone or make excuses for whites who commit a crime. Anyone who breaks the law should pay and be punished for the crime.

 

[MizMolly]

"...understand each other"? This presumes that both sides listen to the other and take their words and experiences into consideration. That may be true of some blacks but it is definitely not the case with you. You don't want blacks and whites to understand each other, you want whites to understand that they are racist, always have been and owe you for it. In fact, when I related my experience of black racism, you didn't try to understand it one iota. You called me a liar and accused me of concocting the story, then assumed and implied that I HAD to have done something to him to set him off such as belittling him before other crew members or something and finally, you tried to justify it with the history of white racism.

Don't try to come off as the virtuous and noble one now, that ship has sailed and foundered on the rocks of your hypocrisy before even getting out of the harbor.

If you call what you have been doing listening, you are crazy. I posted this:

There are whites who can accept their history without whining. And to show just how you have been race baited by white conservatives, these are not whites who feel guilty. They are angry. Angry at the stain you denying whites put on them with your continued racism. So they fight you. They study and research whites to develop things based on that research. They teach classes based on what they learned so we can come to understand each other and move towards a better place.

This is about whites teaching each other about things so we can come to understand each other.

If you don't even think that a white person (me) can discern black racism when he sees it, what do you think other whites are going to teach me?

You have not faced black racism. You tell us a black man spit on you. I didn't excuse that. I denounced it from jump.

Below is the first thing you said that directly addressed my story. This is from your post, #2196, page 220 of the "Are Blacks More Racist Than Whites" thread dated May 8:

"LOL! You have not faced black racism. What you are dong is pretending that whites did nothing to create the anger you faced and concocted a story you can use to reduce our experiences into something that happens to everyone so we have no right to complain."

You gonna stick with that defense? Right out of the starting gate you called me a liar by accusing me of concocting the story. As time went by it went from a story created out of whole cloth to saying it was not really black racism; to assuming I did something to the guy to deserve it; to saying it was justified due to black anger at the history of white racism. It wasn't until the other day that you acknowledged that it was a chickenshit thing to do but you still can't admit it was racism.

But what I have done is challenge your claim because based on EEOC standards that would not pass for racism. There is no evidence he spit on you because he was white. He said this is what I think about you. Did he say this is what I think about white people? Did he say this is what I think about you white boy? .Not according to your story. And if this was racism, why didn't you file a racial complaint? You wouldn't have won, because you didn't document what was said. You see this is how the law works, but whites like you seem to think you can just accuse and it's so.

I've already told you all there is to know about that incident. He assumed I was singling him and the other black crew member out because they were black. If I had been a black captain it would have been a non-issue.

There happens to have been another Honduran black guy that worked with our company for a time and he was on my vessel when he accused the white chief engineer of racism. I was driving the boat at the time so I asked the two of them to come to the bridge so we could discuss it. He took issue with the way the chief spoke to him and thought he was racist. Thing is, that chief always had a very direct way of speaking to people and it wasn't personal but the guy was insulted I guess.
I don't remember exactly how the conversation went but I do remember he kept trying to end the discussion by leaving the bridge. I had to call him back twice so we could talk it out but by the third attempt to leave the bridge it was clear he had his mind made up that the chief was racist and didn't want to discuss it anymore.

When I related that story to other coworkers over time I was told by those who had also worked with him that that was his thing: crying racism. Apparently he had a reputation for it.

The point is, some blacks are paranoid about such things and see racists behind every tree.

I've already told you all there is to know about that incident. He assumed I was singling him and the other black crew member out because they were black. If I had been a black captain it would have been a non-issue.

That's not racism. And you are making an assumption. The reality is the captain was not black and that whites do carry a long record of racism. You expect us to just assume you aren't racist but when we do that generally whites start acting the most racist. You call us paranoid but until you turn black and live you have no right to say that. And maybe the chief was racist. And those co workers you talk about, were they white?

You gonna stick with that defense? Right out of the starting gate you called me a liar by accusing me of concocting the story. As time went by it went from a story created out of whole cloth to saying it was not really black racism; to assuming I did something to the guy to deserve it; to saying it was justified due to black anger at the history of white racism. It wasn't until the other day that you acknowledged that it was a chickenshit thing to do but you still can't admit it was racism.

I'm sticking to the truth here. There was no racism here. You assumed things. In your statement above you said he assumed you were singling him out because he was black. That's not racism. You assumed that if a black captain had singled him out things would be fine which is an assumption that you don't know is true and you claim that's black racism against you. None of those things were racist. There is not one place you could take hat story and file a suit proving racism. But you keep repeating how up faced is black racism. I said that what you call black racism is not racism because it is caused by history of white racism. I also said that what you call black racism is our reaction to the racism of whites. All of hat is true. And from the start I condemned him spitting on you.

And that's a hell of a lot more than you have ever done to recognize the reality of what white racism has done to us. Instead it's the usual white racist what about me or I'm white and blacks have been racist to me, and every other excuse but the recognizing of the fact that white racism created the hostility blacks may have for white people. And I'm not just talking about things from the long ago selected parts of the past whites like you want not to discuss, but dealing with whites like you can make a brother gain great disdain for white people because of your refusal to accept what whites have done and to understand what it has caused.

Ghostrider, paranoia is unjustified fear. Whites have committed racist acts against us CONTINUOUSLY for from a least 1640 until right now. So we can't be paranoid if our fear is justified on the grounds of the behavior of white people.

We have people running around telling us black folks that we are always looking for racism. They are stupid enough to make comments about people finding racism if you look hard enough. Now think about this for a minute. Blacks who want to get rid of racism are spending all their days going around looking for racism so we can stay upset, mad and stressed out. How stupid is that? There are some whites who have told me that I wake up only to go looking for racism. This kind of thinking strains the definition of sanity. So I wake up every morning, drink my coffee, then leave home to begin my daily search for a reason to be miserable, unhappy and angry. It is enough to make a person commit an act of violence when some whites, or stupid nonwhites dare speak this foolishness.

Psychosis is characterized by an impaired relationship with reality. Apparently there are whites here that suffer from this condition. Specifically Delusional disorder. A person experiencing delusional disorder strongly believes in things that aren’t real. Their posts are evidence of this. You racists may want to check your health insurance to see if your condition is covered then go seek the appropriate medical help.

You are the one who ASSumes that every woe of a black American is due to racism.

 

[MizMolly]

Michael Eric Dyson accuses ALL white people of what he does himself. He is a self-righteous hypocrite

Wrong. But as usual none of you whites have the guts to look at yourselves and what YOU do. However you are sure willing to tell everyone else how they should do things.

Oh, kind of like you? You don't see what YOU do. You certainly like to tell whites what they did in the past, what you think they still do. You tell whites they don't know what it is like being black, you sure as hell don't know what it is like being white, of course.

 

[ptbw forever]

Tim Wise: ‘White America’ does not understand the racial realities of America



Is this a racist rant?

Of course.

 

[IM2]

Attempting to divert from what the man was referring to only shows how much you desire to deny reality. For who did these guys get the guns from? I don't think either one of these groups has anyone owning a gun manufacturing plant.

If a gun manufacturer puts a gun in your hand, are you obligated to murder someone with it? Besides, Civilian Force Arms, is a black-owned gun manufacturer. Among other products, they produce AR-15 and AK-47 type "assault" rifles.

This man was talking about how whites came to control this country. Neither black or Hispanic gangs control this nation.

You're not getting out of it that easy. You're the one who brought up gun manufacturers as if that somehow absolves minorities of the crime of murder.

"You're under arrest for the shooting death of a rival gang member. Oh, you're black and you didn't manufacture the gun? Okay, you're free to go."

Say what you will about violent white history but black men are killing each other off much faster than we ever could. And as I've already shown you, not all gun manufacturers are white anyway.

No, you don't get to change the subject because we are talking about WHITES. This thread is about WHITES not anyone else.

.

Right, we're talking about white violence. But, in order to gain a proper perspective on white violence, it behooves us to honestly look at human violence objectively and cite violence of other races and cultures.

You assumed wrongly that all gun manufacturers are white but now that you are better informed than you were a day ago, you have a wider perspective on the issue and can approach the matter with a more objective eye. If you so choose.

We've got that view many, many, many, many times in these threads. So now it's time to focus only on white violence and white crime as well as different perspectives on white racism that exist among whites other that those expressed by many whites here. That's how this is going to be approached.

I am not better informed by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US. My perspective has not widened when the fact remains that whites control the gun manufacturing industry. You need the objective eye, not me.

 

[IM2]

WHITE ON WHITE CRIME VS. BLACK ON BLACK CRIME

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

If a gun manufacturer puts a gun in your hand, are you obligated to murder someone with it? Besides, Civilian Force Arms, is a black-owned gun manufacturer. Among other products, they produce AR-15 and AK-47 type "assault" rifles.

This man was talking about how whites came to control this country. Neither black or Hispanic gangs control this nation.

You're not getting out of it that easy. You're the one who brought up gun manufacturers as if that somehow absolves minorities of the crime of murder.

"You're under arrest for the shooting death of a rival gang member. Oh, you're black and you didn't manufacture the gun? Okay, you're free to go."

Say what you will about violent white history but black men are killing each other off much faster than we ever could. And as I've already shown you, not all gun manufacturers are white anyway.

No, you don't get to change the subject because we are talking about WHITES. This thread is about WHITES not anyone else.

.

Right, we're talking about white violence. But, in order to gain a proper perspective on white violence, it behooves us to honestly look at human violence objectively and cite violence of other races and cultures.

You assumed wrongly that all gun manufacturers are white but now that you are better informed than you were a day ago, you have a wider perspective on the issue and can approach the matter with a more objective eye. If you so choose.

We've got that view many, many, many, many times in these threads. So now it's time to focus only on white violence and white crime as well as different perspectives on white racism that exist among whites other that those expressed by many whites here.

What you mean is that it's time for white people to focus on white violence, white crime and white racism like you do. You've never focused on anything else.

That's how this is going to be approached.

Not by me it isn't.

I am not better informed by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US.

If you didn't know before I told you, you are better informed. It would be more accurate to say "I am not more open minded by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US."

My perspective has not widened when the fact remains that whites control the gun manufacturing industry. You need the objective eye, not me.

Has your perspective widened enough for you to see that the predominately white gun industry is not the reason or cause of black and Hispanic gang members slaughtering each other?

 

[IM2]

This man was talking about how whites came to control this country. Neither black or Hispanic gangs control this nation.

You're not getting out of it that easy. You're the one who brought up gun manufacturers as if that somehow absolves minorities of the crime of murder.

"You're under arrest for the shooting death of a rival gang member. Oh, you're black and you didn't manufacture the gun? Okay, you're free to go."

Say what you will about violent white history but black men are killing each other off much faster than we ever could. And as I've already shown you, not all gun manufacturers are white anyway.

No, you don't get to change the subject because we are talking about WHITES. This thread is about WHITES not anyone else.

.

Right, we're talking about white violence. But, in order to gain a proper perspective on white violence, it behooves us to honestly look at human violence objectively and cite violence of other races and cultures.

You assumed wrongly that all gun manufacturers are white but now that you are better informed than you were a day ago, you have a wider perspective on the issue and can approach the matter with a more objective eye. If you so choose.

We've got that view many, many, many, many times in these threads. So now it's time to focus only on white violence and white crime as well as different perspectives on white racism that exist among whites other that those expressed by many whites here.

What you mean is that it's time for white people to focus on white violence, white crime and white racism like you do. You've never focused on anything else.

That's how this is going to be approached.

Not by me it isn't.

I am not better informed by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US.

If you didn't know before I told you, you are better informed. It would be more accurate to say "I am not more open minded by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US."

My perspective has not widened when the fact remains that whites control the gun manufacturing industry. You need the objective eye, not me.

Has your perspective widened enough for you to see that the predominately white gun industry is not the reason or cause of black and Hispanic gang members slaughtering each other?

My perspective is wide enough to see that yours is not wide enough to accept how this thread isn't abut Hispanic or black gangs. It is about what whites have done.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

You're not getting out of it that easy. You're the one who brought up gun manufacturers as if that somehow absolves minorities of the crime of murder.

"You're under arrest for the shooting death of a rival gang member. Oh, you're black and you didn't manufacture the gun? Okay, you're free to go."

Say what you will about violent white history but black men are killing each other off much faster than we ever could. And as I've already shown you, not all gun manufacturers are white anyway.

No, you don't get to change the subject because we are talking about WHITES. This thread is about WHITES not anyone else.

.

Right, we're talking about white violence. But, in order to gain a proper perspective on white violence, it behooves us to honestly look at human violence objectively and cite violence of other races and cultures.

You assumed wrongly that all gun manufacturers are white but now that you are better informed than you were a day ago, you have a wider perspective on the issue and can approach the matter with a more objective eye. If you so choose.

We've got that view many, many, many, many times in these threads. So now it's time to focus only on white violence and white crime as well as different perspectives on white racism that exist among whites other that those expressed by many whites here.

What you mean is that it's time for white people to focus on white violence, white crime and white racism like you do. You've never focused on anything else.

That's how this is going to be approached.

Not by me it isn't.

I am not better informed by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US.

If you didn't know before I told you, you are better informed. It would be more accurate to say "I am not more open minded by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US."

My perspective has not widened when the fact remains that whites control the gun manufacturing industry. You need the objective eye, not me.

Has your perspective widened enough for you to see that the predominately white gun industry is not the reason or cause of black and Hispanic gang members slaughtering each other?

My perspective is wide enough to see that yours is not wide enough to accept how this thread isn't abut Hispanic or black gangs. It is about what whites have done.

I thought we were talking about violence.

Let me just give you a little info in case you haven't realized it by now: I'm a Big Picture type person and look at things from a wider perspective. Meaning that, if you're going to talk about white racism, I'm going to let you know there's black racism. If you talk about white violence, I'm going to point out minority violence. This is the way I am and will always be. I will never get roped into a one-sided conversation about how awful I am because I'm white because it's a jaundiced and unrealistic view. Just so you know.

However, I am curious to know one thing. If I agree with you one hundred percent on your views of white racism and whatnot, what do you expect me to do about it? What comes after that?

 

[IM2]

No, you don't get to change the subject because we are talking about WHITES. This thread is about WHITES not anyone else.

.

Right, we're talking about white violence. But, in order to gain a proper perspective on white violence, it behooves us to honestly look at human violence objectively and cite violence of other races and cultures.

You assumed wrongly that all gun manufacturers are white but now that you are better informed than you were a day ago, you have a wider perspective on the issue and can approach the matter with a more objective eye. If you so choose.

We've got that view many, many, many, many times in these threads. So now it's time to focus only on white violence and white crime as well as different perspectives on white racism that exist among whites other that those expressed by many whites here.

What you mean is that it's time for white people to focus on white violence, white crime and white racism like you do. You've never focused on anything else.

That's how this is going to be approached.

Not by me it isn't.

I am not better informed by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US.

If you didn't know before I told you, you are better informed. It would be more accurate to say "I am not more open minded by you telling me there is 1 black gun manufacturer in the US."

My perspective has not widened when the fact remains that whites control the gun manufacturing industry. You need the objective eye, not me.

Has your perspective widened enough for you to see that the predominately white gun industry is not the reason or cause of black and Hispanic gang members slaughtering each other?

My perspective is wide enough to see that yours is not wide enough to accept how this thread isn't abut Hispanic or black gangs. It is about what whites have done.

I thought we were talking about violence.

Let me just give you a little info in case you haven't realized it by now: I'm a Big Picture type person and look at things from a wider perspective. Meaning that, if you're going to talk about white racism, I'm going to let you know there's black racism. If you talk about white violence, I'm going to point out minority violence. This is the way I am and will always be. I will never get roped into a one-sided conversation about how awful I am because I'm white because it's a jaundiced and unrealistic view. Just so you know.

However, I am curious to know one thing. If I agree with you one hundred percent on your views of white racism and whatnot, what do you expect me to do about it? What comes after that?

This thread is about the different ways whites look at the issue of white racism. Certainly you don't want to talk about violence because you want to dismiss 241 years of white murder, violence and genocide to claim how everyone else is violent.

You don't look any big picture. Because if you did the you understand why I say that what you call black racism is not racism an how I can say that whites have created the dislike and mistrust because if thier continuing racism. You would understand that I'm not just talking about a white person calling me a name on a job and equating that to a SYSTEM.

Whites like you ask a lot of questions but rarely answer any asked of you. Most of the time its a question that you ask in order to use against the person to deny the issue you ask the question about. So to your question, it cannot be answered until you can admit how white racism might cause the lack of trust, dislike and even hatred some people of color have towards whites. You participate in the one sided conversations telling us as blacks how awful we are all the time. So you will look at problems whites have, or leave the thread.

 

[IM2]

Dealing With White Fragility on The Internet

 

[IM2]

“White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo​

"I will never get roped into a one-sided conversation about how awful I am because I'm white because it's a jaundiced and unrealistic view."

A prime example of white fragility.

So it's fine to have the unproven and debunked white racist view of how blacks are more violent, lazy, want free shit, that's not an unrealistic or jaundiced view. But to draw on 241 years of American nationhood to talk about whites, well that's unrealistic.

 

[IM2]