The Cost of Toppling: Khaddafi vs. Saddam

[DaGoose]

As if the two are Relative. See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq. In Libya we have just killed the leader and have no idea what so ever who will now take over, and almost no control at all over it. We could have just killed Saddam, But we didn't because we knew there was a big chance the powers that took over in his absence would be worse than he was.

He still ended up dead. Any of those Chicken Little fears and assumptions prove to be true?

What assumptions? That worse people than Kaddaffi might take over? Time will tell.

Same with Iraq. Hell, even the same with the US. Somebody worse can always follow.

 

[Ropey]

Ahh now we know why the right wingers did not like our involvement in Libya. Did not cost enough.

You used to have good posts that actually said something relevant and made good sense.

What the hell happened to you?

Must have been before my time.

An election is coming up next year and he's still smarting from the last one.

 

[DaGoose]

Under the Obama Administration the cost of toppling Khaddafi was...

• $1.1 Billion USD for Military Operation to Date
  [*]0 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Administration Officials and NBC News

Under the Bush Administration the cost of toppling Saddam was...

• $805.5 Billion in Military Operation to Date
  [*]4,481 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Brookings/Congressional Research Service

Uhm, yeah, not only was Herr Bush n Doktor Cheney reckless, spending like DRUNKEN sailers, but they were DANGEROUS to national security.

Utter, total and complete lack of leadership under those 2 morons.

The facts continues to bear this out time and time again.

As if the two are Relative. See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq. In Libya we have just killed the leader and have no idea what so ever who will now take over, and almost no control at all over it. We could have just killed Saddam, But we didn't because we knew there was a big chance the powers that took over in his absence would be worse than he was.

Uhhhh.....WHO killed him????

 

[Dot Com]

A few points:

Iraq was a war. Libya was....um...what did they call it? "Hostilities"? "Intervention"?

After all, it was NOT us, NOT Obama that bombed and toppled Libya. We kinda started it........then IMMEDIATELY BACKED AWAY AND DID NOT LEAD THE EFFORT!!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!! Remember, they made sure we understood that.

And now you want Obama to get credit for something they fought long and hard (politically) to try to separate themselves from?

I'm proud of you. Most all conservatives were calling it a war, that is, until it appears to be won

You used to have good posts that actually said something relevant and made good sense.

What the hell happened to you?

An election is coming up next year and he's still smarting from the last one.

Yeah I am likely going to vote for the republican Morman dude.

I'm going to vote for the christian

 

[del]

oy... a bargain... take a dozen

A dozen Power Vacuums in the Middle east with Almost no control over who takes over?

Yeah sounds great!

No, we have control over who takes over. We can strongly intervene and try to ease in people that would suit us better. Thats choice/control #1.

#2 is stir up the nest, back away, and just see what happens. We know who takes over eventually then. And thats a choice we have made.

We have, and had, control over who is in power in Libya, Egypt, etc. Stirring it up, then stepping aside, is the choice Obama made. Knowing the eventual reality.

you're delusional. we have no more control there than we do in afghanistan or iraq, for that matter, unless we want to occupy and garrison those countries forever.

nation building is a sucker's game.

 

[whitehall]

If we could discuss the issue in logical terms instead of liberal emotion we might consider a couple of factors. The US gave Saddam a year to comply with about a hundred UN sanctions and democrats gave permission for boots on the ground and then sat back and pretend to be bystanders or members of the jihad. Obama put pressure on Scotland to release the Lockerbie bomber to a hero's welcome in Libya and then turned around and killed the sons of a leader of a sovereign nation that was not a threat to the US. Who's next? Putin?

 

[KissMy]

Ummmm, I hope I'm not stating the obvious...but....Libya was a NATO operation. Sooooo
The overall cost is probably the same (for the same time period) and seeing's how we support NATO with boatloads of cash we are probably about the same amount. But that would be like, you know, honest and all that shit.

Exaclty, Obama had a better POLICY. One that ensured we WOULDN'T be on the hook for 800 and something BILLION dollars.

Thanks for highlighting that point for me.

Since the USA pays for half of NATO, how much did this really cost US???

It is not over by a long shot. NATO now owns a broken country. Now NATO will have to employ "Nation Building" & we will be paying for half of that. This is always the costly part of war. This is what has cost most of the money in Iraq & Afghanistan. "Shock & Awe", overwhelming Iraq & capturing Saddam did not cost much. It was the occupation that racked up the big bucks.

BTW - Vice President Joe Biden says the Libya war cost double what you say it cost.

Joe Biden said - "The United States spent $2 billion" on Libya War so far.

 

[rdean]

Under the Obama Administration the cost of toppling Khaddafi was...

• $1.1 Billion USD for Military Operation to Date
  [*]0 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Administration Officials and NBC News

Under the Bush Administration the cost of toppling Saddam was...

• $805.5 Billion in Military Operation to Date
  [*]4,481 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Brookings/Congressional Research Service

Uhm, yeah, not only was Herr Bush n Doktor Cheney reckless, spending like DRUNKEN sailers, but they were DANGEROUS to national security.

Utter, total and complete lack of leadership under those 2 morons.

The facts continues to bear this out time and time again.

It will be years before we know the true cost of Bush/Republican Folly.

Tens of thousands of Americans were wounded in Iraq. This could cost the country trillions. The cost of a single paraplegic is in the millions over 40 or 50 years. Unless Republicans decide to "let them die".

 

[bucs90]

A dozen Power Vacuums in the Middle east with Almost no control over who takes over?

Yeah sounds great!

No, we have control over who takes over. We can strongly intervene and try to ease in people that would suit us better. Thats choice/control #1.

#2 is stir up the nest, back away, and just see what happens. We know who takes over eventually then. And thats a choice we have made.

We have, and had, control over who is in power in Libya, Egypt, etc. Stirring it up, then stepping aside, is the choice Obama made. Knowing the eventual reality.

you're delusional. we have no more control there than we do in afghanistan or iraq, for that matter, unless we want to occupy and garrison those countries forever.

nation building is a sucker's game.

ACTUALLY.......................we did a pretty good job in Germany, Japan and South Korea of it.

Problem is........Arabs are fucking mental whackjobs. Lesson learned. But Obama keeps bombing new Arab nations, then flying away and letting them sort it out. GREAT strategy. ALMOST as good as occupation!

 

[bucs90]

Under the Obama Administration the cost of toppling Khaddafi was...

• $1.1 Billion USD for Military Operation to Date
  [*]0 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Administration Officials and NBC News

Under the Bush Administration the cost of toppling Saddam was...

• $805.5 Billion in Military Operation to Date
  [*]4,481 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Brookings/Congressional Research Service

Uhm, yeah, not only was Herr Bush n Doktor Cheney reckless, spending like DRUNKEN sailers, but they were DANGEROUS to national security.

Utter, total and complete lack of leadership under those 2 morons.

The facts continues to bear this out time and time again.

It will be years before we know the true cost of Bush/Republican Folly.

Tens of thousands of Americans were wounded in Iraq. This could cost the country trillions. The cost of a single paraplegic is in the millions over 40 or 50 years. Unless Republicans decide to "let them die".

So you're ok with pumping millions into welfare queens and irresponsible 40 year olds who made dumb choices...............but not with paying for wounded vets. Got it.

 

[Avorysuds]

So you count 10 years of Iraq VS like less than 1 year of Libya? You also counted all of Iraq as Bush when wait, 3 years after Obama became President and what's that, we're still spending tens of billions there killing people?

lol...

Oh and for the record months ago did you not argue Libya was a NATO action, not an Obama/Us war... Now you credit Obama for killing another countries President/king/whatever...

 

[idb]

Under the Obama Administration the cost of toppling Khaddafi was...

• $1.1 Billion USD for Military Operation to Date
  [*]0 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Administration Officials and NBC News

Under the Bush Administration the cost of toppling Saddam was...

• $805.5 Billion in Military Operation to Date
  [*]4,481 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Brookings/Congressional Research Service

Uhm, yeah, not only was Herr Bush n Doktor Cheney reckless, spending like DRUNKEN sailers, but they were DANGEROUS to national security.

Utter, total and complete lack of leadership under those 2 morons.

The facts continues to bear this out time and time again.

As if the two are Relative. See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq. In Libya we have just killed the leader and have no idea what so ever who will now take over, and almost no control at all over it. We could have just killed Saddam, But we didn't because we knew there was a big chance the powers that took over in his absence would be worse than he was.

See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq

Pardon?

 

[Charles_Main]

Apples and Oranges.


Reality Check

In Iraq we took out a Murdering Dictator that had an Iron Grip on his country and Power. There was Little Opposition to him that Dared even Speak out let alone rise up. We then at least made an effort to bring the man to Trail before killing him. We then spent Billions being RESPONSIBLE and Rebuilding the country, and attempting to make sure what Replaced the Dictator we removed was better than what they had.

In Libya, We helped a Very Large and organized opposition that was already engaged in Open Rebellion Drive out a Murdering Dictator and Dole out some Mob Justice and shoot him in the head. We do not really know who will take over now, and we have very little means to control that.

 

[Lakhota]

Lindsey Graham: 'Let's Get In On The Ground. There's A Lot Of Money To Be Made In The Future Of Libya' | ThinkProgress

 

[Charles_Main]

Under the Obama Administration the cost of toppling Khaddafi was...

• $1.1 Billion USD for Military Operation to Date
  [*]0 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Administration Officials and NBC News

Under the Bush Administration the cost of toppling Saddam was...

• $805.5 Billion in Military Operation to Date
  [*]4,481 U.S. Troop Fatalities

Source: Brookings/Congressional Research Service

Uhm, yeah, not only was Herr Bush n Doktor Cheney reckless, spending like DRUNKEN sailers, but they were DANGEROUS to national security.

Utter, total and complete lack of leadership under those 2 morons.

The facts continues to bear this out time and time again.

As if the two are Relative. See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq. In Libya we have just killed the leader and have no idea what so ever who will now take over, and almost no control at all over it. We could have just killed Saddam, But we didn't because we knew there was a big chance the powers that took over in his absence would be worse than he was.

See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq

Pardon?

What don't you get dude? In Iraq we committed Troops and Attempted to Give the People enough security and Help to Have Democratic Elections. Some argue we failed, but that is besides the point.

It is Irresponsible to Cause the Over through of a Dictator and Facilitate the Rise to power of other people that we do not know much About. It's Irresponsible to try and do these things on the cheap, and not be all in. Either you are in it to see Libya free, and peaceful or not. You can't just Kill the Tyrant and hand the keys over to a group of people you don't know much about.

If some new Form of Oppressive, Murdering Government forms out of what we have just done,it will be on our Hands. We now have a Responsibility to do what we can to help Push Libya Toward more Freedom and Democracy and not allow it to descend into Chaos, and you can bet your bottom dollar it's going to cost a lot more than removing the man did.

 

[DaGoose]

Apples and Oranges.


Reality Check

In Iraq we took out a Murdering Dictator that had an Iron Grip on his country and Power. There was Little Opposition to him that Dared even Speak out let alone rise up. We then at least made an effort to bring the man to Trail before killing him. We then spent Billions being RESPONSIBLE and Rebuilding the country, and attempting to make sure what Replaced the Dictator we removed was better than what they had.

In Libya, We helped a Very Large and organized opposition that was already engaged in Open Rebellion Drive out a Murdering Dictator and Dole out some Mob Justice and shoot him in the head. We do not really know who will take over now, and we have very little means to control that.

You're right. Apples and oranges.

In Iraq we invaded and occupied a contained nation that posed no threat to us or anyone else. And it costs us billions of dollars and, even more importantly, thousands of lives.

 

[DaGoose]

As if the two are Relative. See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq. In Libya we have just killed the leader and have no idea what so ever who will now take over, and almost no control at all over it. We could have just killed Saddam, But we didn't because we knew there was a big chance the powers that took over in his absence would be worse than he was.

See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq

Pardon?

What don't you get dude? In Iraq we committed Troops and Attempted to Give the People enough security and Help to Have Democratic Elections. Some argue we failed, but that is besides the point.

It is Irresponsible to Cause the Over through of a Dictator and Facilitate the Rise to power of other people that we do not know much About. It's Irresponsible to try and do these things on the cheap, and not be all in. Either you are in it to see Libya free, and peaceful or not. You can't just Kill the Tyrant and hand the keys over to a group of people you don't know much about.

If some new Form of Oppressive, Murdering Government forms out of what we have just done,it will be on our Hands. We now have a Responsibility to do what we can to help Push Libya Toward more Freedom and Democracy and not allow it to descend into Chaos, and you can bet your bottom dollar it's going to cost a lot more than removing the man did.

Was it worth the cost in money and lives?

 

[Avorysuds]

As if the two are Relative. See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq. In Libya we have just killed the leader and have no idea what so ever who will now take over, and almost no control at all over it. We could have just killed Saddam, But we didn't because we knew there was a big chance the powers that took over in his absence would be worse than he was.

See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq

Pardon?

What don't you get dude? In Iraq we committed Troops and Attempted to Give the People enough security and Help to Have Democratic Elections. Some argue we failed, but that is besides the point.

It is Irresponsible to Cause the Over through of a Dictator and Facilitate the Rise to power of other people that we do not know much About. It's Irresponsible to try and do these things on the cheap, and not be all in. Either you are in it to see Libya free, and peaceful or not. You can't just Kill the Tyrant and hand the keys over to a group of people you don't know much about.

If some new Form of Oppressive, Murdering Government forms out of what we have just done,it will be on our Hands. We now have a Responsibility to do what we can to help Push Libya Toward more Freedom and Democracy and not allow it to descend into Chaos, and you can bet your bottom dollar it's going to cost a lot more than removing the man did.

Where again in the constitution did we have the authority to go into Iraq again? Because if we're making up the rules as we go along you can't really argue against Obama's war in Libya.

 

[idb]

As if the two are Relative. See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq. In Libya we have just killed the leader and have no idea what so ever who will now take over, and almost no control at all over it. We could have just killed Saddam, But we didn't because we knew there was a big chance the powers that took over in his absence would be worse than he was.

See we actually were responsible enough to attempt to control the out come of our Actions in Iraq

Pardon?

What don't you get dude? In Iraq we committed Troops and Attempted to Give the People enough security and Help to Have Democratic Elections. Some argue we failed, but that is besides the point.

It is Irresponsible to Cause the Over through of a Dictator and Facilitate the Rise to power of other people that we do not know much About. It's Irresponsible to try and do these things on the cheap, and not be all in. Either you are in it to see Libya free, and peaceful or not. You can't just Kill the Tyrant and hand the keys over to a group of people you don't know much about.

If some new Form of Oppressive, Murdering Government forms out of what we have just done,it will be on our Hands. We now have a Responsibility to do what we can to help Push Libya Toward more Freedom and Democracy and not allow it to descend into Chaos, and you can bet your bottom dollar it's going to cost a lot more than removing the man did.

Rubbish.
You went into Iraq with no plan beyond next Wednesday.

 

[hortysir]

so it IS all about the money