The Bush Tax Cuts got us in this mess:

[Toro]

Hate to be the first to tell you but there are no family farms left, sure a few tax write offs and property tax schemes, but actual family farms are a thing of the past and if the biz is worth more thab 5 million it ain't small no more.

The vast majority of farms and ranches in the United States are family owned and operated. USDA classifies family farms as “any farm organized as a sole proprietorship, partnership, or family corporation. Family farms exclude farms organized as nonfamily corporations or cooperatives, as well as farms with hired managers” (USDA, Economic Research Service 2007 Family Farm Report). Under this definition, the National Agricultural Statistics Service’s 2007 Census of Agriculture reported that family farms account for almost 96 percent of the 2,204,792 farms in the United States.

The census makes the following useful distinctions among these family farms, based initially on their gross annual sales:

Very large family farms (101,265) gross over $500,000
Large family farms (86,551) gross between $250,000 and $500,000
Small family farms (1,925,799) gross under $250,000

Family Farms

 

[Toro]

I think a 99% death tax after say 5 mill so those that reap what the government sowed can pay the debt we ran up in the name of the economy it’s not only the right and fair thing but it is what in the end will happen the only thing we don’t know is how long we wait and how long the tax will have run and how close to the projected 99% will it have to be. It is where the money is, the trust funds of the great families we either take the money from there and pay the bill or we close shop, I don’t think we will close shop.

This is a terrible idea.

Capital taxes are by far and away the worst taxes in the economy. It destroys the productive base of the economy.

Good thing its never going to happen.

 

[GreatDay]

The Bush Tax Cuts got us in this mess:

More partisan crap, only this time its leftist partisan crap.

Claiming that the BUSH CUTS were the SOLE reason for the economy is obviously untrue.

Obvious to anyone who looks at the reality of the what ails this economy.

I don't remember saying "sole" in general I believe there has been a long term plan to create so much public debt that policy makers would be restricted in their actions. I think that plan was under threat in 2001 and that is why so many Republicans were concerned about Washington taking in too much money, or does the short buss everyone here arrived on not carry news stories? Do I have to go get the links for you guys? Do you say they didn’t say that every time somebody pointed a camera at a GOPer in 2001?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The current total national debt is nearly 16 trillion dollars, or will be in the next few weeks. The cost of the Bush tax cuts over the first 10 years was about 3 trillion, which leaves some 13 trillion that is due to over reasons. And one could argue that those tax cuts did spur a nice economic spurt from 2003-2008, when the recession hit. So, the 3 trillion dollar cost was probably offset somewhat by the improvement in economic growth and employment that resulted.

I do not deny that those tax cuts did increase the debt, but to say that it's the only reason is wrong. It was more likely the increase in spending during both administrations that is more responsible.

I think you underestimate how much the economy would have benefitted from the 3 trillion dollars of job creating stimulus that would have occurred if the federal government had not been providing a safe place to put the money by issuing bonds. When people are forced to take risks they create jobs, today no one has to risk any money they can buy a bond instead, since there are so many available.

Government taxing $3 trillion out of the economy causes more growth than the government borrowing $3 trillion out of the economy?
Walk thru the steps for me.

 

[GreatDay]

I think a 99% death tax after say 5 mill so those that reap what the government sowed can pay the debt we ran up in the name of the economy it’s not only the right and fair thing but it is what in the end will happen the only thing we don’t know is how long we wait and how long the tax will have run and how close to the projected 99% will it have to be. It is where the money is, the trust funds of the great families we either take the money from there and pay the bill or we close shop, I don’t think we will close shop.

This is a terrible idea.

Capital taxes are by far and away the worst taxes in the economy. It destroys the productive base of the economy.

Good thing its never going to happen.

A death tax is not a capital tax, what is terrible for the economy is to fall into the hands of people who don't know how to make a buck, or create a job.

 

[GreatDay]

The current total national debt is nearly 16 trillion dollars, or will be in the next few weeks. The cost of the Bush tax cuts over the first 10 years was about 3 trillion, which leaves some 13 trillion that is due to over reasons. And one could argue that those tax cuts did spur a nice economic spurt from 2003-2008, when the recession hit. So, the 3 trillion dollar cost was probably offset somewhat by the improvement in economic growth and employment that resulted.

I do not deny that those tax cuts did increase the debt, but to say that it's the only reason is wrong. It was more likely the increase in spending during both administrations that is more responsible.

I think you underestimate how much the economy would have benefitted from the 3 trillion dollars of job creating stimulus that would have occurred if the federal government had not been providing a safe place to put the money by issuing bonds. When people are forced to take risks they create jobs, today no one has to risk any money they can buy a bond instead, since there are so many available.

Government taxing $3 trillion out of the economy causes more growth than the government borrowing $3 trillion out of the economy?
Walk thru the steps for me.

A tax gets at the lazy money, borrowing siphons off the hungry money. Of course you do point out the foolishness of saying tax cuts stimulate the economy when you turn around and borrow the money which has been true of tax cuts as far as I can remember. The only thing they ever did was move the money from tax to debt and we pay more interest to those who can afford to buy bonds, but then that’s the point isn’t it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think a 99% death tax after say 5 mill so those that reap what the government sowed can pay the debt we ran up in the name of the economy it’s not only the right and fair thing but it is what in the end will happen the only thing we don’t know is how long we wait and how long the tax will have run and how close to the projected 99% will it have to be. It is where the money is, the trust funds of the great families we either take the money from there and pay the bill or we close shop, I don’t think we will close shop.

This is a terrible idea.

Capital taxes are by far and away the worst taxes in the economy. It destroys the productive base of the economy.

Good thing its never going to happen.

A death tax is not a capital tax, what is terrible for the economy is to fall into the hands of people who don't know how to make a buck, or create a job.

A death tax is not a capital tax,

When you tax an estate, what are you taxing? Income?

what is terrible for the economy is to fall into the hands of people who don't know how to make a buck, or create a job.

Exactly! Which is why we need to give much less to government.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Testimony of Chairman Alan Greenspan
Current fiscal issues
Before the Committee on the Budget, U.S. House of Representatives
March 2, 2001

Alan Greenspan is part of the Banker Mafia that runs this country so his advice should be ignored.

In fact, America today is just like The Sopranos. The Mafia runs everything with a thin veneer of legitimacy covering it to fool the masses.

When you see the US Gov't doing something you can't figger the reasons forout just say to yourself: "If this was a Sopranos episode, what would Tony do?"

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think you underestimate how much the economy would have benefitted from the 3 trillion dollars of job creating stimulus that would have occurred if the federal government had not been providing a safe place to put the money by issuing bonds. When people are forced to take risks they create jobs, today no one has to risk any money they can buy a bond instead, since there are so many available.

Government taxing $3 trillion out of the economy causes more growth than the government borrowing $3 trillion out of the economy?
Walk thru the steps for me.

A tax gets at the lazy money, borrowing siphons off the hungry money.

You made a claim about taxing versus borrowing.

Rich guy pays $1,000,000 in taxes.
Rich guy buys $1,000,000 in bonds.
How is one better for the economy?
Walk thru the steps.

 

[Toro]

I think a 99% death tax after say 5 mill so those that reap what the government sowed can pay the debt we ran up in the name of the economy it’s not only the right and fair thing but it is what in the end will happen the only thing we don’t know is how long we wait and how long the tax will have run and how close to the projected 99% will it have to be. It is where the money is, the trust funds of the great families we either take the money from there and pay the bill or we close shop, I don’t think we will close shop.

This is a terrible idea.

Capital taxes are by far and away the worst taxes in the economy. It destroys the productive base of the economy.

Good thing its never going to happen.

A death tax is not a capital tax, what is terrible for the economy is to fall into the hands of people who don't know how to make a buck, or create a job.

Yes, I agree. Which is why the money shouldn't go to the government.

You do know what capital is, right? Capital is savings. Savings for someone after they die is called an "estate." A tax on an estate is a tax on savings which is a tax on capital.

This is basic Econ 101.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think you underestimate how much the economy would have benefitted from the 3 trillion dollars of job creating stimulus that would have occurred if the federal government had not been providing a safe place to put the money by issuing bonds. When people are forced to take risks they create jobs, today no one has to risk any money they can buy a bond instead, since there are so many available.

Government taxing $3 trillion out of the economy causes more growth than the government borrowing $3 trillion out of the economy?
Walk thru the steps for me.

A tax gets at the lazy money, borrowing siphons off the hungry money. Of course you do point out the foolishness of saying tax cuts stimulate the economy when you turn around and borrow the money which has been true of tax cuts as far as I can remember.

Of course you do point out the foolishness of saying tax cuts stimulate the economy

But of course they do.

when you turn around and borrow the money which has been true of tax cuts as far as I can remember

Excellent point. We need huge spending cuts. Now.

 

[notatallanti]

I looked through the posts but didn't see it; did anyone include the vast sums for the illegal invasion and 'war'? How much has that added?

 

[GreatDay]

Hate to be the first to tell you but there are no family farms left, sure a few tax write offs and property tax schemes, but actual family farms are a thing of the past and if the biz is worth more thab 5 million it ain't small no more.

The vast majority of farms and ranches in the United States are family owned and operated. USDA classifies family farms as “any farm organized as a sole proprietorship, partnership, or family corporation. Family farms exclude farms organized as nonfamily corporations or cooperatives, as well as farms with hired managers” (USDA, Economic Research Service 2007 Family Farm Report). Under this definition, the National Agricultural Statistics Service’s 2007 Census of Agriculture reported that family farms account for almost 96 percent of the 2,204,792 farms in the United States.

The census makes the following useful distinctions among these family farms, based initially on their gross annual sales:

Very large family farms (101,265) gross over $500,000
Large family farms (86,551) gross between $250,000 and $500,000
Small family farms (1,925,799) gross under $250,000

Family Farms

Thanks for the data, and as we all can see none of these farms would have net value over 5 million as the revs clearly show, thank you now that we've taken care of the family farms how about we talk about the billions falling into inefficient hands?

 

[GreatDay]

go get the testimony

Here's the link too

FRB: Testimony, Greenspan -- Current fiscal issues -- March 2, 2001

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

why did Greenspan get it so wrong?

Sort of a stupid question. Maybe he got it wrong in '01 because like everyone else he did not know about 9/11, two wars, housing crisis, and relentless competition from China.

 

[Politico]

Well you're right on the two wars and 9/11 part.

 

[GreatDay]

Government taxing $3 trillion out of the economy causes more growth than the government borrowing $3 trillion out of the economy?
Walk thru the steps for me.

A tax gets at the lazy money, borrowing siphons off the hungry money. Of course you do point out the foolishness of saying tax cuts stimulate the economy when you turn around and borrow the money which has been true of tax cuts as far as I can remember.

Of course you do point out the foolishness of saying tax cuts stimulate the economy

But of course they do.

when you turn around and borrow the money which has been true of tax cuts as far as I can remember

Excellent point. We need huge spending cuts. Now.

Of course you do point out the foolishness of saying tax cuts stimulate the economy

But of course they do.

But it was you who made the point that they don't? how odd it is almost like you would take any excuss for a tax cut whiether it's a good ideal or not.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A tax gets at the lazy money,

yes absolutely!! If, for example, you tax capital gains venture capital firms will have less capital to invest in companies like Apple Google and Intel. Then, you have done a good deed by soaking up "lazy" money that liberal bureaucrats can then spend more wisely.

See why we are positive a liberal will have a low IQ??

 

[Desperado]

The Bush tax cuts did not get us into trouble.
Illegal wars in the Mid East and Unbridled Spending got us into this mess.
Not to mention the bail outs of the Banks.
It really is simple.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Bush tax cuts did not get us into trouble.
Illegal wars in the Mid East and Unbridled Spending got us into this mess.
Not to mention the bail outs of the Banks.
It really is simple.

a liberal will lack the IQ to know that the bailout money was paid back and prevented a depression