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A lot happened during that time and it was caused by the COUNTERFEIT ROMAN Church.Big Enoch fan . He was only kicked out of Bible inclusion because it upset political considerations at the time . Was it Nicea around 325 AD , or , one of the other Butchery Convenience Councils around the same period ?
Nah, we are too busy to bother about "one true church" when there is so much more of your digs....come to think of it, those aren't worth responding to, either. Time to laugh and move on.A lot happened during that time and it was caused by the COUNTERFEIT ROMAN Church.
They were feeling their political power and they used it to REPLACE Passover with Easter. The SABBATH with Sunday. And they instituted many other pagan doctrines such as worshipping statues and so much more. And even today they try to tell you they are the "one true church"
It was the act of GOING AGAINST GOD'S CLEAR COMMANDS.
A lot happened during that time and it was caused by the COUNTERFEIT ROMAN Church.
They were feeling their political power and they used it to REPLACE Passover with Easter. The SABBATH with Sunday. And they instituted many other pagan doctrines such as worshipping statues and so much more. And even today they try to tell you they are the "one true church"
The Book of Enoch is somewhat controversial. Obviously there are different ideas among Christians about the book of Enoch.
I'm going to share a video that's an excellent presentation on the Book of Enoch. But for those who don't want to watch an hour-long video, I'll post a few points that are brought up in this video.
What Christians think about the Book of Enoch can be summed up into 3 basic views...
- There is the view that the entire Book of Enoch is pseudepigrapha, in other words not actually written by Enoch, and therefore not trustworthy.
- There is a second view, on the other extreme, that all of it is actually from Enoch, and therefore authoritative and trustworthy.
- And the third view is that some of it (at least the first 19 chapters) is authoritative, because the Bible itself attests to it, and many early church fathers also attest to it.
I personally think the best and safest view is the third view, that some of it, namely the first 19 chapters, IS authentic and therefore authoritative.
Why should any Christian hold that view, if this book was not included in the Canon?
Well, for one thing, many Christians hold an outdated view that the entire book of Enoch is pseudepigrapha, because before 1976, that was the near-consensus position.
However, ever since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, that changed. Why? Because before 1976, the Book of Enoch was thought to be newer than the New Testament. But then in the Dead Sea Scrolls, a manuscript was found that predated the entire New Testament, so that showed that the previous position was exactly backwards.
The Epistle of Jude, which previously was thought to be the basis for 1 Enoch is now best understood as a clear testimony for the authenticity of the Book of Enoch.
Also, many of the early church fathers attested to the authenticity of the stories in the Book of Enoch, such as the position that Genesis 6 refers to the angels who sinned and mated with human women, which created the Nephilim (giants.) In their writings, these church fathers treated the Book of Enoch as authoritative.
In fact, although in today's world many Christians hold the view that the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 refers to the line of Seth, the view that the Sons of God were angels (who fell from grace) is the view of antiquity, it was the near-unanimous consensus prior to the 5th century, when the Sethite view started. You can read more about that in this article.
There's much more that can be said here, but for anyone who is interested in this topic, I highly recommend watching the video I'm going to post below.
Why does this even matter? Well, the book of Enoch talks about a number of very interesting things, including the Nephilim, and the origin of many practices that people (including Christians) partake in every day, without even knowing the origin of those practices. So, if we hold the position that the book of Enoch is at least partially authentic, which is the most logical position for Christians to hold, since Jude and Jesus Himself attest to it, then I believe Christians should not reject it, or avoid looking into it because they don't know what to think about it.
I don't want to do it now but later I want to bring up something that is referenced in the Book of Enoch that is very important because it has to do with something people do everyday. I'm actually putting together a video on that, so when it's done I'll share it here for anyone who is interested.
I don't expect the non-believers here to believe the Book of Enoch, but for the Christians here... what are your thoughts on the Book of Enoch? Again, I really hope you take the time to watch this video, as Craig goes into it in much more depth, and in a very clear, methodical way.
(The first few minutes is just announcements and stuff, and also waiting for the livestream to start, so I'm going to skip that part and embed this video starting a few minutes into the video)
Oh I wish there were such a heart in them, that they would love me and keep my commandments (not alter them)Nah, we are too busy to bother about "one true church" when there is so much more of your digs....come to think of it, those aren't worth responding to, either. Time to laugh and move on.
Millions of Christians don't. The Catholic Church was NOT given power to alter the COMMANDMENTS. They did it to bring in pagans on their own terms. God requires TOTAL surrender -- not mixing your beliefs with the WayChristians worship on Sunday to celebrate the resurrection of Christ.
The volume for the video in the OP? Although it could be a little louder, it's still OK for me.... so maybe double-check the volume on your computer?
Millions of Christians don't. The Catholic Church was NOT given power to alter the COMMANDMENTS. They did it to bring in pagans on their own terms. God requires TOTAL surrender -- not mixing your beliefs with the Way
This isn't the specific topic of the thread though, so I won't go further into it here.
its not in the kjv and most others for a reason.
The people who love the Book of Enoch in this thread do so because they have made veganism an idol. There is no other way to put it. They choose it; that's fine. But they want to make choosing it a virtue of Christianity. Which it just is not.
They choose it; that's fine. But they want to make choosing it a virtue of Christianity. Which it just is not.
I really didn't want to get into an argument on veganism, but your statement above is so incredibly wrong, I feel like I have to respond to it. You might want to read the very first page of the Bible, where God gave mankind our diet, and that was God's intent for all creation - not violence and bloodshed, but peace and harmony between humans and animals, and a healthy, natural plantbased diet. That's how it was in the Garden of Eden (see Genesis 1:29-30) and that same world of peace and nonviolence is again clearly stated in the prophetic scriptures, like Isaiah 11:6-9 and Isaiah 65:25.
So both the beginning and the end are perfectly clear. Peace and harmony among humans and animals. And in between, in the here and now? Does God want selfish exploitation, cruelty and needless brutal killing? No, absolutely not, and anyone who thinks otherwise is woefully mistaken. There are tons and tons of verses that tell us how God wants us to live...to do ALL things in love (1 Cor 16:14) to be MERCIFUL, (Luke 6:36) peace and gentleness (Gal 5:22-23) as opposed to needless violence, selflessness (1 Cor 10:24) and living by the Golden Rule. That is how God wants us to live in the meantime, in this fallen world. Not to embrace the callous violent temporary practices of this fallen world that were never part of His true intent for all creation.
I think where you go wrong is that you seem to think of veganism as only a diet. But it's not a diet, it's a choice to not harm animals unnecessarily. From a Christian standpoint it simply boils down to choosing MERCY. So to say that mercy is not a virtue of Christianity is as upside-down and backwards as it gets. Mercy absolutely IS a virtue of Christianity, that should go without saying.
Why do you FIGHT the Word of God and still tell me you're Christian.Adam and Eve in the Garden were also without clothes and felt no shame. Is that how we should live now?
Adam and Eve in the Garden were also without clothes and felt no shame. Is that how we should live now?
Why do you FIGHT the Word of God and still tell me you're Christian.
God TOLD you what is will is for Man. Both in the Garden, and in the coming Kingdom.
Why CHOOSE to go against what you KNOW is God's Will?
"There are no slaughterhouses in heaven"
"Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
Completely false equivalence. Come on Sue, you're smarter than that. First of all, that was in the very, very, very beginning, before the world was populated, when it was pretty much just them. Obviously because the way the world is now, clothes are necessary. Also, the Bible tells us to be modest. So clearly God wants us to be modest and not walk around naked in public.
You can't use that "we can't do that now" excuse when it comes to eating animals. There is absolutely no need to eat animals or use animals in the exploitative ways we have been in the world today. People do it out of habit, tradition, or simply because they want to. The overwhelming majority of the world (especially in Western first world countries like the US) has zero need to continue to consume or use animals.
Furthermore, as I already posted, there are tons and tons and tons of verses that tell us to live with love, mercy, kindness, compassion, selflessness, etc. So the "but they were naked" line is a non-argument, sorry.
Why do you FIGHT the Word of God and still tell me you're Christian.
God TOLD you what is will is for Man. Both in the Garden, and in the coming Kingdom.
Why CHOOSE to go against what you KNOW is God's Will?
"There are no slaughterhouses in heaven"
"Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
