The Arrogance of Netanyahu

[SAYIT]

McKinney is a patriot. She just gets slimed in the media because she does not kiss up to Israel.

Your idea of being a patriot is much different than mine.No anti- American, bigoted bitch is a patriot.

She did more for you and our country than anyone else. You just don't know it.

Yeah ... she sounds like your kinda girl:
McKinney gained national attention for remarks she made following the 2001 US attacks, charging that the United States had advance knowledge of the attacks and that US President George W. Bush may have been aware of the incipient attack and allowed them to happen.
In Congress, she advocated unsealing records pertaining to the CIA's role in assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., and the murder of Tupac Shakur and continued to criticize the Bush Administration over the 9/11 attacks. She supported anti-war legislation and introduced articles of impeachment against President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
Cynthia McKinney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SAYIT]

Netanyahu has been terrible for Israel, just terrible.

It's strange the people praising him here as a patriot seem to skip over his corruption trials.

You seem to feel the glass is half empty but Israelis obviously see something else.

 

[Saigon]

Netanyahu has been terrible for Israel, just terrible.

It's strange the people praising him here as a patriot seem to skip over his corruption trials.

You seem to feel the glass is half empty but Israelis obviously see something else.

Why do you say that?

 

[sealadaigh]

McKinney increased the benefits for our veterans who suffer from agent orange and championed the support for our veterans. She opposes NAFTA, etc. She opposes the PATRIOT Act, etc. She supports the 2nd amendment, habius corpus, and posse comitatus. She introduced legislation to ban the use of depleted uranium and to end the transfer of arms to countries with a history of human rights abuses.

Just a few things off the top of me head.

Those of us who are afflicted with Agent Orange appreciate any Congressional support but it was primarily the Viet Nam vets who dogged the Reps and Senators. And the things she did was for publicity to get re-elected. Politicians do a whole passel of things they don't like so they can stay in power.

McKinney was never one to sell out to be elected. I can only think of a few people in politics who did not sell out: Mckinney, Ron Paul, and Dennis Kucinich. Anyone else?

i always have voted for the most honest politician, even if i hated everything they stood for, because at least i would know where i stand. a lot of americans vote for fairytales and their are more than enough people running for office to give them the fairy tale of their choice...on a daily basis, or "somedays you eat the bear. somedays the bear eats you."

 

[sealadaigh]

The wall is not about security.

Right---the wall is about keeping Israeli arabs from ESCAPING TO GAZA ---and for that matter ---keeping Israeli jews from escaping too. tinnie----what would this board be without your keen insight?

He is just disappointed that his friends who are potential suicide bombers can't get in to blow up innocent people. Does anyone really think that Tinny cares that one of his friends even blew up young Abigal, a pastor's daughter, on a bus in Israel? Hopefully with the fence, we wouldn't be reading any more stories about young girls like Abigal regardless of what religion they are. I wonder why Tinny doesn't ever give us any derogatory news about Hamas unless he is thinking of eventually joining them.

Hamas weapons uncovered near Garden Tomb
On Tuesday, Jerusalem police reported that on 8 August they uncovered a sizeable weapons cache concealed inside a room hidden behind a vegetable market in eastern Jerusalem, between the Damascus Gate and the Garden Tomb. In addition to weapons, the room's walls were covered with photos of "martyrs" and Hamas flags and related equipment, as well as NIS 250,000 in cash. Police have arrested five Israeli Arabs from Jerusalem and three Palestinians from the Hebron area in connection with the discovery.

you really are an ass, aren't you. how dare you accuse someone of what you have just accused tinsmore of.

what the hell is wrong with you. i used to say "you're better than that." now i am left with "you should be better than that."

what is this religion you subscribe to again? is this the kind of thing they teach...to make the most slanderous of false allegations?

and he is right. the wall isn't about security. it is a de facto border. if israel had the slightest interest in security, they would sit down in honest negotiations with the palestinians without the precondition that the palestinians roll over and die so israel can save on ordinance.

 

[Lipush]

I disagree, Lipush.

If we look back at a list of senior Israeli politicians, I don't see many who have ever been known to be corrupt. Ariel Sharon and Netanyahu where there seem to be stronger allegations, but I think many of Israel's politicians have been terrific leaders.

And I don't see taking bribes or making sure your son gets rich make a poltician any stronger with security or economic policy.

It also seems clear that countries in Europe won't deal with Bibi. He's just seen as being an impediment to peace. While he is in power no one is talking about a peace process.

And just how talking about "peace process" doing any good, anyway? Does it help?

Didn't think so.

What people call "peace process" if putting all cards on the table, simply mean lands exchange. That's the request, which Netanyahu denied. And 90% of Israelis cheered when Netanyahu refused to agree to that condition, because that is not a good opening point for us. For that were are glad for what he did.

Which leaders you refer to, were good, in the last years? Please point out names.

 

[Lipush]

Netanyahu has been terrible for Israel, just terrible.

It's strange the people praising him here as a patriot seem to skip over his corruption trials.

You seem to feel the glass is half empty but Israelis obviously see something else.

Why do you say that?

Because it's true.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Your idea of being a patriot is much different than mine.No anti- American, bigoted bitch is a patriot.

She did more for you and our country than anyone else. You just don't know it.

Yeah ... she sounds like your kinda girl:
McKinney gained national attention for remarks she made following the 2001 US attacks, charging that the United States had advance knowledge of the attacks and that US President George W. Bush may have been aware of the incipient attack and allowed them to happen.
In Congress, she advocated unsealing records pertaining to the CIA's role in assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., and the murder of Tupac Shakur and continued to criticize the Bush Administration over the 9/11 attacks. She supported anti-war legislation and introduced articles of impeachment against President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
Cynthia McKinney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2QoQml27NI&feature=related]911 Truth: Cynthia McKinney Smeared for Questioning 911 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[irosie91]

TRUE BY FARTWAH I am reminded of an interview I was---with a representative of the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT---a lady----regarding the FARTWAH upon the head of Salman Rushdie.
The --westerner interview lady presented compelling arguements as to why the DEATH PENALTY for writing ---"the satanic verses" was a bit over the top. The touched on the issue of blasphemy laws in Iran and the charming Iranian lady in full chador uniform commented (paraphrase) "isn't the TRUTH important'? Isn't it right that the most severe penalty should be reserved for the MOST SEVERE CRIME'???
Since THE TRUTH is most important----Isn't it right to execute a person who ATTACKS THAT WHICH IS MOST IMPORTANT?"


who can argue with a person who DECLARES HIS
OWN POSITION TO BE -----THE TRUTH?????

 

[Saigon]

And just how talking about "peace process" doing any good, anyway? Does it help?

It will work when - and only when - BOTH sides wish it to work.

I don't honetly believe either side does right now.

Which leaders you refer to, were good, in the last years? Please point out names.

Ben Gurion, Rabin, Golda Meir, Ehud Barak...perhap Shamir, perhaps Peres.

 

[Lipush]

And just how talking about "peace process" doing any good, anyway? Does it help?

It will work when - and only when - BOTH sides wish it to work.

I don't honetly believe either side does right now.

I know Israel wishes it to work. We do not, however, BELIEVE it will.

 

[Lipush]

And just how talking about "peace process" doing any good, anyway? Does it help?

It will work when - and only when - BOTH sides wish it to work.

I don't honetly believe either side does right now.

Which leaders you refer to, were good, in the last years? Please point out names.

Ben Gurion, Rabin, Golda Meir, Ehud Barak...perhap Shamir, perhaps Peres.

I was speaking of the last years, you talk Ben Gurion?

Ben Gurion was a symbol, no doubt. But he belonged to a time that was long forgotton.

Golda Meir had her reputation, but we all remember the scandal and her overlooking all the red signs and colors alering the 73 war which caused death to hundreds of dear Jews in Israel.

Ehud Barak? LOL! he's a dimwit. He did a good thing taking our troops out of Lebanon back home, but that was about it.

Rabin was also a symbol, but he read the area map entirely wrong. He believed that land exchange is a good solution, he was so horribly wrong.

And Peres? He doesn't live in that universe at all. As a president, he's good, not as a political leader. Nu-ah.

 

[Saigon]

Lipush -

I don't think Israel has made any realistic effort to build peace since the pull-out from Gaza. And I don't think they will under a Likud government, who are too quick to pander to the Russian vote and lowest common denominator politics.


Peres was very good in his younger days. I greatly admired him when I was in Israel. In later days not so much. I also admired Ehud Barak a lot - I think he was a fine and honorable man.

 

[Lipush]

Lipush -

I don't think Israel has made any realistic effort to build peace since the pull-out from Gaza. And I don't think they will under a Likud government, who are too quick to pander to the Russian vote and lowest common denominator politics.

That sentence there just nailed it, read it again.

You've said that we failed to do anything since the disangagement; I don't sure we didn't do ANYTHING, but well, I can agree that since 2005, we didn't see any major process to help.

And if you don't mind me saying, with a very good REASON.

In 2005 thousands of Jews were expelled from their homes by their OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS. It may have seen as something which was needed, and people like to brush it under the rug, but the disangagement was a HUGE, and VERY traumatic issue which almost caused crisis inside the Israeli society, the left and right, inside war between the hilltops and the rest of the people. It was something that left its scars. But we did it.

We did it because we thought it will make things BETTER.

2 weeks. 2 weeks after the disangagement we had a terror attack by Palestinian terrorists, after we have been PROMISED that this will bring peace. After not so long missiles started launching from Gaza. We felt decieved, we felt something was seriously wrong here. We have been mocked, because they TOLD us that what we knew what about to change. In Every discussion, talkback,article, tv show, it became a known saying "The disangagement was our disaster" and "it blowed up in our faces".

We did a serious thing that was incredibly hard, that no other nation ever did to ITSELF. and nothing changed. It became WORSE.

So why would we want to sit next to the table with people who call for MORE land giving. Are we masochistic? I don't think so. You wonder why since 2005 no serious step was made.? I don't. I know the reason. And I believe it is hell of a good one. I won't want to give anymore Jewish land, or to expel any other Jewish family from their home, for NOTHING. and we did it for NOTHING. That's for sure.

 

[Saigon]

No solution will work immediately, and if people expect immediate results from anything like a pul-out they are going to be disappointed.

Some people in Gaza don't want peace, other aren't bright enough to understand that if the fire rockets Israel will fire back.

It's a case of changing habits, of shifting the middle ground, of winning hearts and minds. It absolutely can work, and we see the results of succesful peace processes in Aceh, in Ireland, in Rwanda, in East Timor, in Burundi and DRC. Some of these conflicts were bloodier, and older, than the Palestinian conflict.

So I will always believe it could work in Israel, too, but it can't be viewed in what happened this week or last week. It is about years and decades and generations of changing attitudes.

 

[irosie91]

Some people in Gaza don't want peace, other aren't bright enough to understand that if the fire rockets Israel will fire back.


even I would not write so idiotically a simplistic statement like that above------you want to make the gazans seem simply stupid, Saigon? They are not stupid----they are victims----being used as pawns by arabists and islamicists which is the ONLY reason any of them are still living in Gaza

 

[Hossfly]

McKinney increased the benefits for our veterans who suffer from agent orange and championed the support for our veterans. She opposes NAFTA, etc. She opposes the PATRIOT Act, etc. She supports the 2nd amendment, habius corpus, and posse comitatus. She introduced legislation to ban the use of depleted uranium and to end the transfer of arms to countries with a history of human rights abuses.

Just a few things off the top of me head.

Those of us who are afflicted with Agent Orange appreciate any Congressional support but it was primarily the Viet Nam vets who dogged the Reps and Senators. And the things she did was for publicity to get re-elected. Politicians do a whole passel of things they don't like so they can stay in power.

McKinney was never one to sell out to be elected. I can only think of a few people in politics who did not sell out: Mckinney, Ron Paul, and Dennis Kucinich. Anyone else?

I'll reserve comments about "anyone else" but the three you named are Looney Toons characters.

 

[Lipush]

No solution will work immediately, and if people expect immediate results from anything like a pul-out they are going to be disappointed.

Some people in Gaza don't want peace, other aren't bright enough to understand that if the fire rockets Israel will fire back.

It's a case of changing habits, of shifting the middle ground, of winning hearts and minds. It absolutely can work, and we see the results of succesful peace processes in Aceh, in Ireland, in Rwanda, in East Timor, in Burundi and DRC. Some of these conflicts were bloodier, and older, than the Palestinian conflict.

So I will always believe it could work in Israel, too, but it can't be viewed in what happened this week or last week. It is about years and decades and generations of changing attitudes.

Of course we could not expect it to work immediately. But it's 2012. The disangagement was in 2005. And we have yet to see how this helped the Israeli people in ANY way possible.

I believe in changing attitudes, that's healthy and welcome, but that doesn't really helps at other cases, either. If someone will come up with a great solution that havn't been thought up untill now, I believe the Israeli leadership will be very much glad to hear it.

What happenes now, that I am personally aware of, is the reutine, especially of us southerners, that's really frustrating.

Take a look at this short Video. 3 days ago, on live. Reporter Sivan Rahav Meir, Israel's channel 2, the 5 O'clock news, she's interviewing, or about to interview, an activist for human rights concerning the Sudani immigrants, the interview is taken from the media offices in Be'er Sheva, this is about 15 kilometers from my house, she starts asking questions, but look what happenes few seconds afterwards. No need to understand Hebrew, you can figure it out by yourself.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqM_LwquC8c]‫[/ame]

This is happening daily. That's what I'm talking about when talking about frustration. Nobody works to change this reality.

 

[irosie91]

Mc Kinny jumped on a few bandwagons ----causing more harm then good-----very few vets IF ANY were actually harmed by agent orange. She managed to convince them that they were

 

[Saigon]

Lipush -

I did watch the video, and it brought back a few memories of living with those sirens and everything that goes along with that.

No people should have to live with that.

But I do think Israel gained by pulling out of Gaza. For one thing, IDF troops do not need to be in Gaza on a daily basis. The cost and the danger of patrolling those streets has been removed. Hopefully drones and satellites can become more effective in limiting the threat from Gaza, meaning it effectively becomes a unilateral peace action.

The bigger question is always going to be the WB...