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8:39
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193
http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
The reference I can find is in the Surah The Spoils and it looks to me to be a specific exhortation following the Battle of Badr. Could it possibly be related simply to the specific struggle Mohammed and his followers were having in Arabia at that time? I can't see a generalised exhortation to Muslims to kill non-believers in that Surah. Not saying it's not there, just saying I can't discern it.
The tense is present tense not past .
Perhaps this will help to illuminate the thought process
The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]
[al-Anfaal 8:39]
Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
[al-Tawbah 9:5]
This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).
These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
And Allaah is the Source of strength.
Islam Question and Answer - There is no compulsion to accept Islam
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
(and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush), do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam,
This is only one interpretation of the Quran, there are hundreds of muslims who will tell you they don't interpret it that way.
The reference I can find is in the Surah The Spoils and it looks to me to be a specific exhortation following the Battle of Badr. Could it possibly be related simply to the specific struggle Mohammed and his followers were having in Arabia at that time? I can't see a generalised exhortation to Muslims to kill non-believers in that Surah. Not saying it's not there, just saying I can't discern it.
The tense is present tense not past .
Perhaps this will help to illuminate the thought process
The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]
[al-Anfaal 8:39]
Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
[al-Tawbah 9:5]
This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).
These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
And Allaah is the Source of strength.
Islam Question and Answer - There is no compulsion to accept Islam
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir
(and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush), do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam,
al-Anfaal 8:39
Okay I read it again. The translation I have is by N.J.Dawood. The Surah al-Anfaal (The Spoils) seems to change tenses but it appears to my untutored eye to be a direct revelation to the Prophet. The Surah ranges over past events in which Mohammed was involved and also seems to enter the future tense but still within the bounds of Mohammeds current experiences In the copy I have the relevant passage is rendered thus:
Make war on them [the unbelievers] until idolatry is no more and Allahs religion reigns supreme.
Im reading this as basically a set of instructions to the Prophet as to his immediate future dealings with the pagans against whom he was fighting.
al-Tawbah 9:5
My copy suggests that the commentators view this Surah as a continuation of The Spoils. It commences, uncharacteristically without the invocation to Allah so that might be a clue as to its being a continuation. Anyway it reads, A declaration of immunity by Allah and His apostle the idolaters with whom you have made agreements..
The exhortation is indeed for Mohammed to go after the unbelievers but again Im reading it as being in a specific rather than a generalised context.
In Mr Fitnah's thread concerning Koranic exhortations to violence (contested) it occurred to me that a good look at the three Abrahamic religions might be useful. As I said in that thread my knowledge is scant, but I'll say what I think I know and wait for more information.
As I understand it Abraham, a Hebrew, was visited by God and possibly began the first (apparently there's some thought that there were earlier ideas of monotheism but not sure) monotheistic religion based on revelations from God. That became Judaism.
Then Yeshua, who was called Jesus Christ, the Anointed One, came along as an Aramaic-speaking Jew and preached and drew followers. In His name Christianity developed from its Judaic roots.
Much later, 7th Century (?) CE, Mohammed was visited by the Archangel Gabriel who revealed the Koran to the Prophet. Allah/God was a bit annoyed that the earlier two Abrahamic religions which worshipped Him had gone off the rails a bit and the Prophet had revealed to him the Koran so that he could begin to set people right.
The point I made in Mr F's thread was that adherents of the three religions are essentially worshipping the same God. There are major doctrinal differences though. But the object of veneration is the same God.
If it were the same god, the same god would have said the same thing to all three. The fact of the matter is, he did. It's called the BIBLE. Some listened some didn't.
Muslims are busy worshiping a fallen star (Satan) while some Jews are still trying to approach G-d through their own works and righteousness just as Cain did ~6000 years ago.
I hate to repeat myself, and i know i've said this before, but I think each religion is like a different language with which people speak to G-d... and he's multi-iingual.
As for the same thing being said to everyone, people impose their own idiosyncrasies on everything... including religion. to us, jesus didn't fulfill the prophesies and the messiah for us isn't a spiritual savior in the sense that christians see it.
george carlin once did a truly great bit on the 10 commandments.... said it could all be boiled down to one... do unto others as you would have them do unto you. if people actually followed that, i think the world would be a pretty good place.
This is only one interpretation of the Quran, there are hundreds of muslims who will tell you they don't interpret it that way.
Reminds me of that graffito "Jesus is coming - look busy!"
They'd better hurry up then. We've had Muslims in Australia for hundreds and hundreds of years (north coast of Australia saw Muslim fishers and traders dealing with our indigenous people well before Europeans came here). In my city we have the oldest mosque in Australia, built in 1888 and the Muslims still haven't tried to do us in! Slackers!
This is only one interpretation of the Quran, there are hundreds of muslims who will tell you they don't interpret it that way.
Reminds me of that graffito "Jesus is coming - look busy!"
They'd better hurry up then. We've had Muslims in Australia for hundreds and hundreds of years (north coast of Australia saw Muslim fishers and traders dealing with our indigenous people well before Europeans came here). In my city we have the oldest mosque in Australia, built in 1888 and the Muslims still haven't tried to do us in! Slackers!
Is the kangaroo a clean or unclean animal in Muslim tradition?
That he didn't like matzo ball soup was just the tip of the iceberg.Luther's humanity is questionable when you consider how increasingly anti-Semitic he became.Yes, the differences in Christianity are interesting, but I have this feeling that that's been a good thing. I don't mean in a theological sense, I mean in a secular manner and I'm connecting that to the advancement of humanity in Christian Europe. Sometimes, theologically speaking, those changes are good, I think Luther was appalled at the corruption in the Church when he nailed his challenge to the door. The Reformation followed and I wonder if that wasn't a filip to human intellectual development.
He couldn't stand kosher food either.
"A few years later, in 1528, Luther reported a nearly fatal bout of diarrhea brought on by his consumption of Kosher food. In a letter to Melancthon, Luther suggested that the Jewish community had attempted to poison him. Luther further suggested that Kosher foods, which he believed to be disagreeable with the constitution of Gentiles, were eaten by the Jews (who, presumably, would not experience adverse effects from their consumption) as a show of superiority over the Gentiles and as a means of separating themselves from the mainstream German culture. He suggested that Kosher foods be banned from Christian nations."
Martin Luther and antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is only one interpretation of the Quran, there are hundreds of muslims who will tell you they don't interpret it that way.
Reminds me of that graffito "Jesus is coming - look busy!"
They'd better hurry up then. We've had Muslims in Australia for hundreds and hundreds of years (north coast of Australia saw Muslim fishers and traders dealing with our indigenous people well before Europeans came here). In my city we have the oldest mosque in Australia, built in 1888 and the Muslims still haven't tried to do us in! Slackers!
Is the kangaroo a clean or unclean animal in Muslim tradition?