The $15 Minimum Wage Is Turning Hard Workers Into Black Market Lawbreakers

[Supposn]

McRocket, I'm a proponent of annually increasing the federal minimum wage rate 12% until its purchasing power's at least 20% higher than its 1968 peak. Thereafter the rate should continue to be monitored and annually modified to retain its purchasing power.

Although all federal branches of government would continue to be empowered to monitor and if necessary oversee the minimum wage rate, if our U.S. Congress would just once set a realistic rate pegged to the consumer price index, the rate would remain hence forte a matter subject to civil service statisticians rather than to congressional politicians.

I'm an old man but I hope and I believe this is likely to occur within my lifetime.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The U.S. Census Bureau reported in September 2017 that real median household income was $59,039 in 2016, exceeding any previous year.
Household income in the United States - Wikipedia

-----------------------------------------------------

The problem is 1/2 make under that, so we need to subsidize their income

We don’t “need” to do anything.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I have mixed feelings on $15 minimum wage.

On the one hand, obviously it greatly helps the standard of living for those who get the huge wage increase.

On the other, a 100+% increase in pay with a zero increase in production is not good for business. Plus, the extra costs will be passed on to the customers.
Finally, the non-partisan CBO has stated that a higher minimum wage will cost many 100's of thousands of jobs nationwide. And that was only to $10.10 per hour.

The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office

If the Dems take both houses in November (and especially if they also take the WH in 2020 - which the polls say looks likely right now)...this issue will probably re-surface in force.

Thoughts?

The correct minimum wage is zero

 

[Skull Pilot]

McRocket, I'm a proponent of annually increasing the federal minimum wage rate 12% until its purchasing power's at least 20% higher than its 1968 peak. Thereafter the rate should continue to be monitored and annually modified to retain its purchasing power.

Although all federal branches of government would continue to be empowered to monitor and if necessary oversee the minimum wage rate, if our U.S. Congress would just once set a realistic rate pegged to the consumer price index, the rate would remain hence forte a matter subject to civil service statisticians rather than to congressional politicians.

I'm an old man but I hope and I believe this is likely to occur within my lifetime.

Respectfully, Supposn

So you want everyone to make minimum wage because that's what will as happen people will never move off the bottom rung because you turned the ladder onto a bed

 

[Supposn]

`
The company I work for has a part-time temp agency which pays higher wages than most other similar agencies, competing in the semi-skilled market. We've crunched our numbers and found a mandatory $15/hr wage would cut so far into our profit margin that we could no longer afford to keep it going, ergo, we would completely close that operation.

Generally, I oppose a $15/hr wage. Considering what I see at most places which employ people at lower wages, its a joke.
`

Windparadox, competitive advantage within a competitive free enterprise environment is the most meaningful, and almost the entire advantages among commercial industries or enterprises.

Regardless of whatever is the market price for labor, competing enterprises recruiting labor from the same labor pool within the same population share similar labor costs.

If a temporary employment agency could not remain in business due to a $15 federal minimum rate, Then it's not now a viable enterprise at the current $7.25 rate.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

So you want everyone to make minimum wage because that's what will as happen people will never move off the bottom rung because you turned the ladder onto a bed

Skull Pilot, apparently you don't believe or you lack confidence in the profit motive or comparative wage concepts.

You couldn't explicitly describe how and why EVERYONE would earn the federal minimum wage rate and people will never leave the bottom wage bracket?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Wyatt earp]

I have mixed feelings on $15 minimum wage.

On the one hand, obviously it greatly helps the standard of living for those who get the huge wage increase.

On the other, a 100+% increase in pay with a zero increase in production is not good for business. Plus, the extra costs will be passed on to the customers.
Finally, the non-partisan CBO has stated that a higher minimum wage will cost many 100's of thousands of jobs nationwide. And that was only to $10.10 per hour.

The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office

If the Dems take both houses in November (and especially if they also take the WH in 2020 - which the polls say looks likely right now)...this issue will probably re-surface in force.

Thoughts?

On the one hand, obviously it greatly helps the standard of living for those who get the huge wage increase


How so? Please explain how it helps their standard of living if they all got a raise?


How does it help the people making $14 an hour?



.

 

[Windparadox]

Windparadox, competitive advantage within a competitive free enterprise environment is the most meaningful, and almost the entire advantages among commercial industries or enterprises. Regardless of whatever is the market price for labor, competing enterprises recruiting labor from the same labor pool within the same population share similar labor costs.If a temporary employment agency could not remain in business due to a $15 federal minimum rate, Then it's not now a viable enterprise at the current $7.25 rate.Respectfully, Supposn

`
In the Milwaukee market, the average temp.non-skilled wages are from $9 to $11 an hour. We start at $12.50 and have some making $16+/hr. This gives us some wiggle room for raises and some benefits. We have found through our own research that this is what the market will bear here. If there is a mandatory $15, it's just not cost effective for us to keep a temp service and it will fold.

To give unskilled labor, whom are barely worth $9/hr, a jump to $15/hr, will cause chaos. Prices will go up. Automation will increase. I talk to franchisee owners who tell me unless corporate covers their revenue loss with price increases, they are bailing out. I'm not talking the 1% here. People will lose jobs. All of this may not happen right away but it will happen.
`

 

[Wyatt earp]

I have mixed feelings on $15 minimum wage.

On the one hand, obviously it greatly helps the standard of living for those who get the huge wage increase.

On the other, a 100+% increase in pay with a zero increase in production is not good for business. Plus, the extra costs will be passed on to the customers.
Finally, the non-partisan CBO has stated that a higher minimum wage will cost many 100's of thousands of jobs nationwide. And that was only to $10.10 per hour.

The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office

If the Dems take both houses in November (and especially if they also take the WH in 2020 - which the polls say looks likely right now)...this issue will probably re-surface in force.

Thoughts?

So there is absolutely no concept that perhaps the workers were originally underpaid?

Is $15/hr really that much money to you? That's only $2,400 a month.

Nope. But a 100+% increase in wages for a zero increase in production is. Plus, the probably 1,000,000+ jobs lost (according to the CBO).

What happens at Amazon will be informative with their raises.

No it won't, it's one huge company.


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Windparadox, competitive advantage within a competitive free enterprise environment is the most meaningful, and almost the entire advantages among commercial industries or enterprises. Regardless of whatever is the market price for labor, competing enterprises recruiting labor from the same labor pool within the same population share similar labor costs.If a temporary employment agency could not remain in business due to a $15 federal minimum rate, Then it's not now a viable enterprise at the current $7.25 rate.Respectfully, Supposn

`
In the Milwaukee market, the average temp.non-skilled wages are from $9 to $11 an hour. We start at $12.50 and have some making $16+/hr. This gives us some wiggle room for raises and some benefits. We have found through our own research that this is what the market will bear here. If there is a mandatory $15, it's just not cost effective for us to keep a temp service and it will fold.

To give unskilled labor, whom are barely worth $9/hr, a jump to $15/hr, will cause chaos. Prices will go up. Automation will increase. I talk to franchisee owners who tell me unless corporate covers their revenue loss with price increases, they are bailing out. I'm not talking the 1% here. People will lose jobs. All of this may not happen right away but it will happen.
`

Speaking of the lower Wisconsin area what's with local government? Doing a pathetic fight on truckers building Foxconn with all those tickets?


‘Doesn’t make any sense:’ Truck drivers say they’re being wrongfully issued tickets


.

 

[Windparadox]

Speaking of the lower Wisconsin area what's with local government? Doing a pathetic fight on truckers building Foxconn with all those tickets?‘Doesn’t make any sense:’ Truck drivers say they’re being wrongfully issued tickets.

`
State and local (Mount Pleasant) revenue.....but I digress.

 

[justoffal]

`
The company I work for has a part-time temp agency which pays higher wages than most other similar agencies, competing in the semi-skilled market. We've crunched our numbers and found a mandatory $15/hr wage would cut so far into our profit margin that we could no longer afford to keep it going, ergo, we would completely close that operation.

Generally, I oppose a $15/hr wage. Considering what I see at most places which employ people at lower wages, its a joke.
`

Yeah that's the problem with a blanket mandatory wage rule...the google eyed ( think Ocasio-Cortez here ) Marxian dreamers never look at the rest
of the system when they seek to make changes to that one part They just blindly demand that life be fair without having to do any of the real work that it would take to even approach such a condition. You want to give people a break....increase the buying power of the dollar instead of forcing an employer out of business. That won't happen because then it deals directly with the
socialist state's money funding and money favors tactics...

OJ

 

[Wyatt earp]

`
The company I work for has a part-time temp agency which pays higher wages than most other similar agencies, competing in the semi-skilled market. We've crunched our numbers and found a mandatory $15/hr wage would cut so far into our profit margin that we could no longer afford to keep it going, ergo, we would completely close that operation.

Generally, I oppose a $15/hr wage. Considering what I see at most places which employ people at lower wages, its a joke.
`

Yeah that's the problem with a blanket mandatory wage rule...the google eyed ( think Ocasio-Cortez here ) Marxian dreamers never look at the rest
of the system when they seek to make changes to that one part They just blindly demand that life be fair without having to do any of the real work that it would take to even approach such a condition. You want to give people a break....increase the buying power of the dollar instead of forcing an employer out of business. That won't happen because then it deals directly with the
socialist state's money funding and money favors tactics...

OJ

Exactly


Australia $15 dollar minimum wage and they are still poor..explain it liberals

 

[Supposn]

In the Milwaukee market, the average temp.non-skilled wages are from $9 to $11 an hour. We start at $12.50 and have some making $16+/hr. This gives us some wiggle room for raises and some benefits. We have found through our own research that this is what the market will bear here. If there is a mandatory $15, it's just not cost effective for us to keep a temp service and it will fold.

To give unskilled labor, whom are barely worth $9/hr, a jump to $15/hr, will cause chaos. Prices will go up. Automation will increase. I talk to franchisee owners who tell me unless corporate covers their revenue loss with price increases, they are bailing out. I'm not talking the 1% here. People will lose jobs. All of this may not happen right away but it will happen.

Windparadox, what “the market will bear” changes. When the federal minimum wage rate is updated, the labor market has changed.

I suppose you understand the concept of comparative advantage or disadvantage. When the federal minimum wage is increased, industries and enterprises that employ comparatively greater proportions of lower wage rate laborers will be at a comparative disadvantage to those employing lesser proportions of such laborers.

When the minimum wage rate's increased, employment agencies handling greater proportions of higher wage laborers will be at advantage to agencies that handling only low-wage labor.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

Australia $15 dollar minimum wage and they are still poor..explain it liberals

Bear513, Australia is not a poor nation. Refer to List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Wyatt earp]

Australia $15 dollar minimum wage and they are still poor..explain it liberals

Bear513, Australia is not a poor nation. Refer to List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia

Respectfully, Supposn

Who said anything about Australia being poor read the link .. they could have minimum wage be $50 bucks an hour and it still would be the same

 

[Windparadox]

Windparadox, what “the market will bear” changes. When the federal minimum wage rate is updated, the labor market has changed. I suppose you understand the concept of comparative advantage or disadvantage. When the federal minimum wage is increased, industries and enterprises that employ comparatively greater proportions of lower wage rate laborers will be at a comparative disadvantage to those employing lesser proportions of such laborers.When the minimum wage rate's increased, employment agencies handling greater proportions of higher wage laborers will be at advantage to agencies that handling only low-wage labor.Respectfully, Supposn

`
Well, the market still hasn't changed in Milwaukee and people like me deal in the NOW. Ideally, change needs to start with the 1% but with all the tax giveaways they've been getting, it makes matters only worse. None of that is "trickling down". None. It surely isn't fueling new jobs. I side with the status quo vs pipe dreams.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I have mixed feelings on $15 minimum wage.

On the one hand, obviously it greatly helps the standard of living for those who get the huge wage increase.

On the other, a 100+% increase in pay with a zero increase in production is not good for business. Plus, the extra costs will be passed on to the customers.
Finally, the non-partisan CBO has stated that a higher minimum wage will cost many 100's of thousands of jobs nationwide. And that was only to $10.10 per hour.

The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office

If the Dems take both houses in November (and especially if they also take the WH in 2020 - which the polls say looks likely right now)...this issue will probably re-surface in force.

Thoughts?

Look, Rocket, I realize you're an argumentative sort of bot, but I agree with you in so far as indeed the minimum living wage issue is a difficult social conundrum. However, low wage workers in America, and I mean no low wage worker in America anywhere in the U.S. of A. is or has to be stuck in said low wage job. See, the very concept of class mobility is lost to the ideological ears and minds of the Marxist based postmodernist radical American Left. So here's a little story for you, based on personal experience, so regrettably, you all can't Google it up. Just hear me out before switching your operating modes to cantankerous 2000 annoying, okay?

A female relative of mine born in the early 1960's started working at age fifteen for a local, ma and pa Chinese restaurant for next to nothing wages. She also worked in a ceramic statue shop as a cashier and as a clerk in a book store—all while she was in high school. She graduated high school, enlisted in the US Army and became a Russian Translator for military intelligence, ultimately being stationed on the Berlin Wall nearly forty years ago.

So she did eight years with the Army, got out and went to work as a shift manager for a KFC. Crazy change in professions, am I right? While working fast food she met her future husband on the job. Together, their combined income amounted to jack not much. So did she and her fiancé and then husband shortly after spin their wheels whining about living wage raises and how they were stuck in there dead end jobs for life? NO.

After a couple of years of fast food work, both of them, now husband and wife, got jobs with a major cosmetics manufacturer on the mid-Atlantic seaboard. While working there, he rose up the ranks in the warehouse to end up managing it and learned to write BASIC programs to run the shipping process. She also rose up to become a production lead. After five years of service, the cosmetics company awarded them both huge, nearly six figure profit sharing checks each.

So the mostly happy couple moved on to a warm, sunny subtropical location to the south, purchased their own home and put each other through college. Him for computer programming, her for business management. Oh yeah, somewhere along the way they had a son and later a daughter.

Where did they end up? He is now the head programmer for the entire chain of a nationwide grocery store. She is a district manager for said same grocery store chain. They purchased another house—and one for their daughter—with cash! They put both their kids through college. Their son now works as a programmer for a company in Hong Kong—yes the little guy lives between there, New Zealand and Indonesia. The daughter started of all things a successful pool business. The parents regularly travel to South and Central America and the far west Pacific.

My point is, is that no American from any walk of life is stuck in a low paying job. Upward movement through the classes does and should always depend on the individual American's desire for a financially better life, and their own personal responsibility to make that happen. Any American out there can move up the financial income ladder, pretty much as far as their will and efforts to do so will take them.

For Leftist ideology, class upward mobility is a great threat. See, on the Left, ideological reign depends on a victim class of workers stuck for life in oppressive, low pay work which keeps them in poverty, all so that both the middle class and upper class can be demonized and ultimately attacked and destroyed.

Personal responsibility and effort. Keys to the American social class mobility kingdom. Live it, and love it.

Thats a non starter for liberals,it requires effort.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So you want everyone to make minimum wage because that's what will as happen people will never move off the bottom rung because you turned the ladder onto a bed

Skull Pilot, apparently you don't believe or you lack confidence in the profit motive or comparative wage concepts.

You couldn't explicitly describe how and why EVERYONE would earn the federal minimum wage rate and people will never leave the bottom wage bracket?

Respectfully, Supposn

Because the people whining for a 15 an hour MW have been bagging burgers for years without trying to get another job

people who get paid the federal minimum wage total a whopping 3% of the population

and that 3% includes tipped workers who might actually make significantly more than MW

Many states already have MW that exceeds the federal MW

What you want is increase in labor costs with no corresponding increase in production so you will have a cost increase multiplier happening across all sectors of the economy.

all because a few people don't want to improve their value to the marketplace.

 

[Supposn]

Who said anything about Australia being poor read the link .. they could have minimum wage be $50 bucks an hour and it still would be the same

Bear513, Sorry, I didn't recognize “ Australia $15 dollar minimum wage and they are still poor..explain it liberals” as a link.

I'm not very familiar with Australia's economy. Your link states, “For the past 20 years the minimum wage has steadily and consistently pulled away from average weekly earnings”. If that's true, and Australian wage rates are not increasing faster than the purchasing power of the Australian dollar, then the Australian minimum wage rate's not indexed to stay abreast with Australia's currency inflation?

If that's the case, Australia's minimum wage problem and the remedy is similar to that of USA's federal minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn

McRocket, I'm a proponent of annually increasing the federal minimum wage rate 12% until its purchasing power's at least 20% higher than its 1968 peak. Thereafter the rate should continue to be monitored and annually modified to retain its purchasing power.

Although all federal branches of government would continue to be empowered to monitor and if necessary oversee the minimum wage rate, if our U.S. Congress would just once set a realistic rate pegged to the consumer price index, the rate would remain hence forte a matter subject to civil service statisticians rather than to congressional politicians.

I'm an old man but I hope and I believe this is likely to occur within my lifetime.

Respectfully, Supposn