Texas Teen Killed by Police in School Had a Pellet Gun!

[gallantwarrior]

As one who has intervened in situations actually as dangerous as this appeared and more so, all I can say is that your take is patently ridiculous. I hope those cops get fired. Or sent to jail. Or both.

I disagree. The cop was protecting a buttload of potential child victims.

Having said that I do respect your position. A friend of mine is an ER nurse and another is a correctional nurse. The stories they have told are...... telling.

I am not an ER nurse. I am a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Before I became an NP I worked the units AND for a few years, I worked the front door of two different psychiatric hospitals. I was in far worse situations than one with some 15 year old mouthing off and pointing a supposedly real gun. They walked in those front doors with everything you can imagine. And all we had was a couple of little old dried up security guards who couldn't be bothered to come if they were called. The education and skill of the professional staff is what saves the day. These cops were green horns! They didn't even try.

You should be celebrating. The officers in question should be considered for a community service award. After seeing photos and updates on this story, at least this little shit won't show up on your doorstep some night, loaded with drugs, armed to the teeth, and spoiling for a fight with a feisty health-care professional protected only by a couple of dried up retired cops.

 

[Two Thumbs]

OK, whose life was he going to take....with a pellet gun?

Would you like me to google the number of deaths caused by BB guns for you?

and this is irrelevant, and ignorant. The cops had no idea that it was a pellet gun.

The question I asked was, whose life was he going to take. An answer to that would suffice nicely.

He declared everyone.

Then he took aim at a cop.

Read your own link, and don't ask such foolish questions when the answer is clear.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Yeah, an artery runs down your leg. Duh. But it is a wound that could be medically managed and not instant death. As for "going home to their families", yes police need to be safe. But, they are supposed to be trained to go into dangerous situations and accept some risk. If not, then they shouldnt be police. Police should do everything in their power to defuse a situation and make sure all parties are safe and not just run in with guns blazing. Not saying they did this in this case, but that is my point.

then your point has nothing to do with cops or what actually occurred.

They ordered him

multiple times

to drop his gun.

Second guessing them, and berating them is just foolish.

Would you like one of your sons to become cops, knowing that you taught them not to kill in self-defense?

I think not. The cops were right, whether you like it or not.

I am entitled to my opinion whether you like it or not. And, yes, i will second guess the cops because any time a cop has to shoot to kill, it should be thoroughly reviewed and examined to see what can be learned and if it would be possible to approach it differently next time. As for a fatal shot in the leg, yeah, it can happen but much less likely than a shot into the chest or head so of course there is some risk but much, much less so stop with this nonsense.
And, so they ordered the gun down. Was anyone in imminent danger of this boy at the time he was surrounded by police other than the police? The police don't immediately rush in and shoot someone just because they have a gun. Police are taught how to talk people down and out of dangerous situations.

Yes you have the right to be wrong.

Seriously, you're an idiot. And don't know the first thing about what you are talking about.

 

[Two Thumbs]

As for a fatal shot in the leg, yeah, it can happen but much less likely than a shot into the chest or head so of course there is some risk but much, much less so stop with this nonsense.

Okay, so shoot for the leg. Miss. The round ricochets off the wall and hits someone else, killing them. Not only is the suspect not neutralized, he's scared shitless because he's being shot at, so he returns fire, killing some police officer.

More likely scenario: shoot the suspect in the thigh and hit it. He probably doesn't go down from that due to the adrenaline. Not only is the suspect not neutralized, he's scared shitless because he's being shot at, so he returns fire, killing some police officer.

Conclusion: Shoot for the chest or don't shoot at all. This Hollywood "shoot him in the leg" bullshit is risky and stupid, which is why they don't do it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Crackerjack again.


I'll get you later.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I am entitled to my opinion whether you like it or not. And, yes, i will second guess the cops because any time a cop has to shoot to kill, it should be thoroughly reviewed and examined to see what can be learned and if it would be possible to approach it differently next time. As for a fatal shot in the leg, yeah, it can happen but much less likely than a shot into the chest or head so of course there is some risk but much, much less so stop with this nonsense.
And, so they ordered the gun down. Was anyone in imminent danger of this boy at the time he was surrounded by police other than the police? The police don't immediately rush in and shoot someone just because they have a gun. Police are taught how to talk people down and out of dangerous situations.

Yes you have the right to be wrong.

Seriously, you're an idiot. And don't know the first thing about what you are talking about.

Well, then i guess i won't bother to accept your Friend Request. i really don't care for my so called friends to call me an idiot.

pfft

I'm not your friend. I'm the person, whose ass, you have been blowing smoke up.

At a certain point, you have to ask yourself; Do I have a clue as to what I'm talking about?

Clearly you don't, since your ideas would end up with cop widows, widowers and children w/o one parent.

 

[Gagafritz]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

It doesn't matter if this was a pellet gun, what was he doing brandishing any kind of a gun around at school?

Did you see the gun? It looks like a real gun.

The cops were justified in shooting him. I can't imagine what the hell this kid was thinking, but in this day and age how could you NOT know that kind of behavior would likely get you killed?

If it had been a real gun and the cops pussy-footed around and he ended up shooting someone...THEN the cops would be at fault. But they took care of business.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked them to shot him in the leg and to keep talking while he is taking aim.

That is both absurd and unreasonable.

Why do you want cops to die?


That's an absurd question, but considering your ideas would lead to that, it's not unreasonable.

 

[Againsheila]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

They will, they always do after an officer discharges his gun. It's mandatory.

 

[Againsheila]

It doesn't matter if this was a pellet gun, what was he doing brandishing any kind of a gun around at school?

Did you see the gun? It looks like a real gun.

The cops were justified in shooting him. I can't imagine what the hell this kid was thinking, but in this day and age how could you NOT know that kind of behavior would likely get you killed?

If it had been a real gun and the cops pussy-footed around and he ended up shooting someone...THEN the cops would be at fault. But they took care of business.

Perhaps they'll find the kid was on drugs? Or that he had ADHD or some other neurological desease that causes him to act without thinking? Even so, the shoot was justified. It's not the cops job to psychoanalyze the suspect.

 

[lizzie]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that.

Okay- this is getting silly imo. When you are a cop, and you have a gun pointed at you, and a kid making threats, who has already been in a fight earlier, is carrying a knife, and is defying you to do anything, yes you can hesitate and you can handle the situation differently- if you are willing to take the chance that the kid is bluffing

If you are willing to take that chance, with a gun pointed at you, then you are little more than a fool. If you want to play games and take a chance with your own life, then feel free to go ahead. If you are willing to take a chance with the lives of others, then you are a pretty thoughtless and gutless wimp.

Ask yourself this question: If you were at home with your family, and a punk kid pulled a gun, which looked like a serious firearm, would you hesitate to stop him in his tracks, or would you try to reason with him? Either way, it's your choice. Problem is, if you are wrong, and your wife or children get shot, you were the good guy who allowed it to happen. Too late to have second thoughts.

It's the same in this situation. The kid pulled a gun, pointed it as if to shoot, and refused to comply with orders to drop it. The kid was asking for it. If he was too stupid to understand what this meant, then it's still his fault, or the fault of his parents for not teaching him how to respond to legal authorities. There is no question in my mind that this child was out of control and pushing the envelope. I would have done exactly the same thing the cops did, and I can assure you that I am a reasonable intelligent person. My responsibilities to my loved ones and/or those whom I am paid to protect (in the case of the cops) is priority 1.

 

[Gagafritz]

Did I say anywhere that the cops were wrong? Show me where i did? You seem to be missing my point. And, the point is that no matter how you look at it is still a tragedy. And, sorry, i cannot take glee in the death of young teen who probably had some emotional or mental problems and jump up and down yelling "hooray, he got what he deserved, ha, ha, ha". Sheesh.

 

[Care4all]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked them to shot him in the leg and to keep talking while he is taking aim.

That is both absurd and unreasonable.

Why do you want cops to die?


That's an absurd question, but considering your ideas would lead to that, it's not unreasonable.

i don't want a cop to die, just as much as i don't want a kid to die....the death of either, is a tragedy.....killing another human being is a horrific thing.....no one deserves to die or to be killed, unless they have maliciously killed another human....imo.

you appear to think only the lives of the cops count? I think you are wrong on that....every life counts....TT.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked them to shot him in the leg and to keep talking while he is taking aim.

That is both absurd and unreasonable.

Why do you want cops to die?


That's an absurd question, but considering your ideas would lead to that, it's not unreasonable.

i don't want a cop to die, just as much as i don't want a kid to die....the death of either, is a tragedy.....killing another human being is a horrific thing.....no one deserves to die or to be killed, unless they have maliciously killed another human....imo.

you appear to think only the lives of the cops count? I think you are wrong on that....every life counts....TT.

Good lord that's a shitty accusation.

The kid chose to go toe to toe with people prepared to return in kind.

He went looking for a fight and got one. I chose the cops life over a fools any day.



Would you be cool with this kid going to school with yours?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked them to shot him in the leg and to keep talking while he is taking aim.

That is both absurd and unreasonable.

Why do you want cops to die?


That's an absurd question, but considering your ideas would lead to that, it's not unreasonable.

i don't want a cop to die, just as much as i don't want a kid to die....the death of either, is a tragedy.....killing another human being is a horrific thing.....no one deserves to die or to be killed, unless they have maliciously killed another human....imo.

you appear to think only the lives of the cops count? I think you are wrong on that....every life counts....TT.

So according to this logic the cops should have waited till one of them were dead or one of the kids in the school?

 

[gallantwarrior]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

Of course, every police department faced with a tragedy of this magnitude does the type of forensic "dissection" Sunshine has described. They have to. No cop ever wants to have to deal with a situation like this and when it happens, the rest do their best to use it to help ensure a better outcome should such a thing reoccur.

 

[Care4all]

You asked them to shot him in the leg and to keep talking while he is taking aim.

That is both absurd and unreasonable.

Why do you want cops to die?


That's an absurd question, but considering your ideas would lead to that, it's not unreasonable.

i don't want a cop to die, just as much as i don't want a kid to die....the death of either, is a tragedy.....killing another human being is a horrific thing.....no one deserves to die or to be killed, unless they have maliciously killed another human....imo.

you appear to think only the lives of the cops count? I think you are wrong on that....every life counts....TT.

So according to this logic the cops should have waited till one of them were dead or one of the kids in the school?

I'm certain the cops did the best that they could, not a malicious move on their part, and are sickened about what happened.....I am also certain that they are NOT running around saying "good, the kid deserved to die", as people on this site are saying.... I am certain they are reviewing their own actions over and over again...and the precinct is reviewing the incident and seeing if there was a better way to handle it for the "next time around", for if there is another "next time around"....as they should do. Ttaking the life of another human being by our government (police) should NOT ever be taken lightly...the Police represent ME, THE TAX PAYER and I and my neighbors and my family do NOT want to see them killing people that were not going to kill them...and in this case, the 15 year old child WAS NOT going to kill anyone with his pellet gun.....

It was my understanding that part of the training for policemen is the psychoanalysis of their subject, if at all possible....so not to kill the "crazies" out there and only kill the ones that have killed or are about to kill (with some sort of certainty)....

Maybe I am wrong on that, and they just throw policemen out there with no training in this kind of stuff and maybe this is why things go wrong...but when my uncle Jimmy and Uncle Joe became cops, they did have training for these kind of circumstances....but back then, cops did not kill innocent people as much as they do now....so maybe the rules have changed....?

 

[Crackerjack]

I am also certain that they are NOT running around saying "good, the kid deserved to die", as people on this site are saying....

Who is saying that? Link to the post(s), please.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

i don't want a cop to die, just as much as i don't want a kid to die....the death of either, is a tragedy.....killing another human being is a horrific thing.....no one deserves to die or to be killed, unless they have maliciously killed another human....imo.

you appear to think only the lives of the cops count? I think you are wrong on that....every life counts....TT.

So according to this logic the cops should have waited till one of them were dead or one of the kids in the school?

I'm certain the cops did the best that they could, not a malicious move on their part, and are sickened about what happened.....I am also certain that they are NOT running around saying "good, the kid deserved to die", as people on this site are saying.... I am certain they are reviewing their own actions over and over again...and the precinct is reviewing the incident and seeing if there was a better way to handle it for the "next time around", for if there is another "next time around"....as they should do. Ttaking the life of another human being by our government (police) should NOT ever be taken lightly...the Police represent ME, THE TAX PAYER and I and my neighbors and my family do NOT want to see them killing people that were not going to kill them...and in this case, the 15 year old child WAS NOT going to kill anyone with his pellet gun.....

It was my understanding that part of the training for policemen is the psychoanalysis of their subject, if at all possible....so not to kill the "crazies" out there and only kill the ones that have killed or are about to kill (with some sort of certainty)....

Maybe I am wrong on that, and they just throw policemen out there with no training in this kind of stuff and maybe this is why things go wrong...but when my uncle Jimmy and Uncle Joe became cops, they did have training for these kind of circumstances....but back then, cops did not kill innocent people as much as they do now....so maybe the rules have changed....?

The weapon LOOKED REAL. The cops did not know it was a pellet gun. You guys keep IGNORING that. What they saw as a person with a 9 mm pistol ( for all intents and purposes) which has a 15 round magazine. He was ordered to drop it he was talked at for 20 minutes. HE made the choice to point it at the cops. All the cops knew was he was pointing a loaded 9 mm at them. As far as they knew they WERE in imminent threat of being shot.

They fired in self defense. You and several others keep glossing over that.

 

[lizzie]

I haven't said anything absurd or unreasonable. I simply asked if the police and those involved could evaluate and examine the situation and see it it was possible or would be possible to handle this type of thing differently in the future to a better possible outcome. Every reasonable person i know would do just that. I haven't said anything at all negative about the police in any way. If you disagree with me, that is fine, but if you can't disagree without going ape and calling me an "idiot" for my opinion, then maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

You asked them to shot him in the leg and to keep talking while he is taking aim.

That is both absurd and unreasonable.

Why do you want cops to die?


That's an absurd question, but considering your ideas would lead to that, it's not unreasonable.

i don't want a cop to die, just as much as i don't want a kid to die....the death of either, is a tragedy.....killing another human being is a horrific thing.....no one deserves to die or to be killed, unless they have maliciously killed another human....imo.

you appear to think only the lives of the cops count? I think you are wrong on that....every life counts....TT.

No one will get the chance to maliciously kill me, because if they threaten me, they are fair game. If one threatens another with death, they deserve to die just as much as the one they are threatening. I am not willing to give a violent criminal the benefit of the doubt when it comes to me against him.