Zone1 Texas Republicans Release Of Deaths Caused By Abortion Ban Until After The Elections

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You must be a man.

Flagrant misandry.

 

[flacaltenn]

Texas’s ban on abortions after six weeks has been in effect for about a year now, since the U.S. Supreme Court decided, from the shadow docket, to let it happen. Since then, the Court has overturned federal abortion protections, and Texas’s near-total ban has been enacted. Now it appears that Republican Gov. Greg Abbott’s administration is actively covering up any deaths that have occurred because of the forced birth laws.

The House Chronicle reports that the state’s health officials missed a deadline to report the first major update of pregnancy-related deaths in the state in almost a decade. The report was supposed to have been issued on Sept. 1, but now has been delayed indefinitely. By “indefinitely,” Texas officials seem to mean “until after the election of 2022 and maybe the one in 2024.”

Texas Republicans won’t allow lawmakers, public know how many people the abortion ban is killing

Texas’s ban on abortions after six weeks has been in effect for about a year now, since the U.S. Supreme Court decided, from the shadow docket, to let it happen. Since then, the Court has overturned federal abortion protections, and Texas’s near-total...

m.dailykos.com

At what point can you defend the indefensible? For someone who was so proud of their forced birth stance, they sure do hide it a lot.

"pregnancy related deaths" are NOT "lack of abortion" deaths. The DailyKos is spinning like a top.
The delay is because the data is RAW and needs a lot of definition and explanation about ALL the categories of "maternal deaths".

DailyKos is using an EXCUSE to confound "maternal" deaths with abortion availability. If there was a list of "lack of abortion related maternal deaths" -- I'd be upset if the numbers went up in the "bidding wars" on drawing the abortion line. But there's NO INDICATION that this list MAKES a distinction for "cause of death" being "no access to abortion".

From the article in the opost.

he House Chronicle reports that the state’s health officials missed a deadline to report the first major update of pregnancy-related deaths in the state in almost a decade.

DailyKos is just jonesing to make the case that abortion laws are killing mothers. But the report is MUCH BROADER and complicated than that.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Texas’s ban on abortions after six weeks has been in effect for about a year now, since the U.S. Supreme Court decided, from the shadow docket, to let it happen. Since then, the Court has overturned federal abortion protections, and Texas’s near-total ban has been enacted. Now it appears that Republican Gov. Greg Abbott’s administration is actively covering up any deaths that have occurred because of the forced birth laws.

The House Chronicle reports that the state’s health officials missed a deadline to report the first major update of pregnancy-related deaths in the state in almost a decade. The report was supposed to have been issued on Sept. 1, but now has been delayed indefinitely. By “indefinitely,” Texas officials seem to mean “until after the election of 2022 and maybe the one in 2024.”

Texas Republicans won’t allow lawmakers, public know how many people the abortion ban is killing

Texas’s ban on abortions after six weeks has been in effect for about a year now, since the U.S. Supreme Court decided, from the shadow docket, to let it happen. Since then, the Court has overturned federal abortion protections, and Texas’s near-total...

m.dailykos.com

At what point can you defend the indefensible? For someone who was so proud of their forced birth stance, they sure do hide it a lot.

Well in today’s dishonest media climate, I don’t blame them as far as strategy, especially since they’re conservative and have nearly the entire MSM, the FBI/DOJ, big tech, academia, and mainstream celeb culture continuously spreading misinformation about them.

However, this is nothing new. The Democrats havent been held accountable for or have even addressed the massive rise in suicides when they imposed their shutdowns on the public in 2020-2021. Their logic would be “we did it to save lives”.. which is what the GOP in Texas would say. The difference is, the data has long revealed that the shutdowns didn’t save lives, and even with that knowledge the Fauci/MSM/DNC continued to press for them.

 

[iceberg]

You must be a man.

As must you.

 

[Dragonlady]

Well in today’s dishonest media climate, I don’t blame them as far as strategy, especially since they’re conservative and have nearly the entire MSM, the FBI/DOJ, big tech, academia, and mainstream celeb culture continuously spreading misinformation about them.

However, this is nothing new. The Democrats havent been held accountable for or have even addressed the massive rise in suicides when they imposed their shutdowns on the public in 2020-2021. Their logic would be “we did it to save lives”.. which is what the GOP in Texas would say. The difference is, the data has long revealed that the shutdowns didn’t save lives, and even with that knowledge the Fauci/MSM/DNC continued to press for them.

The suicide rate went DOWN in 2020, and held stead through 2021. The shutdowns saved lives in every country where they were used, but the USA was never locked down the way other countries did. The USA reopened in May of 2020. Your rate of disease NEVER WENT DOWN. The moment it dipped, you reopened and were off and running on your next wave.

What data showed that lockdowns didn't save lives??

I think that Donald Trump should be held accountable for failing to properly deal with the virus and letting it run free to achieve "herd immunity". Over one million people died which is a WHOLE lot more than a slight increase in suicides during lockdowns.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Edit: I had a thread where I was already arguing with this person and they were already making this kind of terrible argument and same these insults and apparently we’ve now switched threads and I thought this thread was that thread. Accordingly since this is the zone 1 clean debate etc, here is an edit.

Legal safe abortions don't cause ANY deaths.

Your statement is utterly INSANE.

Abortion victims are killed. You don’t value their lives but they are alive and any reasonable or marginally educated person would know better, so stop lying about textbook scientific fact known to grade schoolers.

I am so sick of the fucking lies you clowns keep parrotting.

You say this while lying about abortion victims. This is quite comical and I wish it was performative and you could be in on the joke like a clown, instead of being the joke.

A zygote is not alive.

Objectively false.

This is something a 5th grader should know.

 

[Dragonlady]

You. Are. INSANE.

Abortion victims are killed. You don’t value their lives because you’re a stupid bigot, but stop being such a cartoonish liar.


You’re not just the goddamn clown, retard, you’re the whole circus.

Objectively false.

Go back to elementary school and remediate from there. Actually no, you’re probably too dumb to ever pass 5th grade, no matter how much time you take. So just don’t bother talking about this topic anymore, because you’re not equipped for it and with your abject and obvious retardation, you never will be.

There are no "abortion victims". I don't value lives that never were, you brainwashed clown. These aren't lies, they are science and human biology. Life begins with your first breathe you fool

Even the Bible says that life began when Adam breathed the "Breath of Life.

Come back when you have something other than misogyny and right wing dogma and insults. None of what you're selling has any viability or truth to it.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

There are no "abortion victims". I don't value lives that never were, you brainwashed clown. These aren't lies, they are science and human biology. Life begins with your first breathe you fool

You have proven beyond all doubt that you have never opened a scientific textbook in your life. You have no mastery of basic life science at even the elementary level. Living things exist that do not even possess lungs. So tell me again how life only begins with breath?

You are a hatemonger, this much you have made clear, but your delusional bigotry against the unborn does not change the factual reality here on planet Earth that their lives are taken in coldblooded aggression by a hired killer.

Even the Bible says that life began when Adam breathed the "Breath of Life.

I don’t care about your weird religious thinking and how you think it justifies your hatemongering and bigotry and deceit.

I don’t believe in the Bible, and frankly I know the Bible and you don’t believe in it either.

Come back when you have something other than misogyny and right wing dogma and insults.

In sexually reproducing species like ours, life begins at fertilization. Period.

Equality isn’t misogyny.

You’re just a misandrist female supremacist and a dogmatic denier of science and reality.

None of what you're selling has any viability or truth to it.

Open a book.

 

[Dragonlady]

"pregnancy related deaths" are NOT "lack of abortion" deaths. The DailyKos is spinning like a top.
The delay is because the data is RAW and needs a lot of definition and explanation about ALL the categories of "maternal deaths".

DailyKos is using an EXCUSE to confound "maternal" deaths with abortion availability. If there was a list of "lack of abortion related maternal deaths" -- I'd be upset if the numbers went up in the "bidding wars" on drawing the abortion line. But there's NO INDICATION that this list MAKES a distinction for "cause of death" being "no access to abortion".

From the article in the opost.



DailyKos is just jonesing to make the case that abortion laws are killing mothers. But the report is MUCH BROADER and complicated than that.

The report is for "pregnancy related deaths".

Texas doctor are sending women with "partial miscarriages" home to bleed out until their lives are endangered. There is a high risk of sepsis and that the woman may not be able to have another baby because she wasn't treated properly for the miscarriage. Up to 1/3 of all pregnancies end in a "miscarriage" otherwise known as a "spontaneous abortion".

The treatment is a D&C - a surgical abortion, to clean the uterus after the miscarriage. Texas doctors admit to being afraid to perform this minor surgery, and being unable to find nurses to assist if they do.

Then there is an ectopic pregnancy - a pregnancy where the egg attaches to the fallopian tube and grows there until the zygote gets too big for the tube, rupturing it. When the tube ruptures, the woman has 10 minutes to get to the hospital or she dies. Doctors in Texas have to wait until the tube ruptures before they can treat this woman. There is no way of saving the pregnancy. 1 in 50 pregnancies is an ectopic pregnancy.

In "heartbeat states", they can't treat the woman in an ectopic pregnancy until the fetal heart stops beating, cutting the time to save the mother awfully close.

Talk about "spinning". The Texas law prevents doctors from performing an abortion until the life of the mother is at risk.

 

[Dragonlady]

You have proven beyond all doubt that you have never opened a scientific textbook in your life. You have no mastery of basic life science at even the elementary level. Living things exist that do not even possess lungs. So tell me again how life only begins with breath?

You are a hatemonger, this much you have made clear, but your delusional bigotry against the unborn does not change the factual reality here on planet Earth that their lives are taken in coldblooded aggression by a hired killer.


I don’t care about your weird religious thinking and how you think it justifies your hatemongering and bigotry and deceit.

I don’t believe in the Bible, and frankly I know the Bible and you don’t believe in it either.


In sexually reproducing species like ours, life begins at fertilization. Period.

Equality isn’t misogyny.

You’re just a misandrist female supremacist and a dogmatic denier of science and reality.



Open a book.

Kindly remember this is the clean debate zone and keep your misogyny and your insults to yourself. I love being lectured about birthing babies by a man who has never been pregnant and has no idea of the risks and dangers of pregnancy.

Life, in law, science, and religion, begins at birth. The clump of cells created at conception is not a "life", it is a potential life, and there is a lot of risk that this potential will not be achieved.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Kindly remember this is the clean debate zone and keep your misogyny and your insults to yourself.

You entered this “clean debate” with “fucking liars” and “clowns.”

You have lied about basic reality on Earth, you have lied about the definition of basic words in English, you have spewed scientific misinformation, and you are lying about this supposed “misogyny.”

You are a misandrist female supremacist. This is not an insult - this is a statement of fact. This is something you make abundantly clear:

I love being lectured about birthing babies by a man who has never been pregnant and has no idea of the risks and dangers of pregnancy.

“Men cannot have an opinion on a human rights abuse” - flagrant misandry from you, right on cue.

Men are physically capable of attacking and killing innocent human beings, and also of being innocent and being killed in cold blood. Accordingly, men can and should have an opinion on whether or not aggressive violence against their fellow human beings is acceptable. And any moral, decent man would take a grim view of such violence.

Life, in law, science, and religion, begins at birth.

Objectively false in law, objectively false in science, and whatever religion believes such evil madness has a “god” unworthy of anything but blasphemous disrespect. I spit on any such “god” - they are loathesome and evil, they are beneath me and unworthy of prayer.

It seems somehow fitting that you find such beings ideal for your worship.

The clump of cells created at conception is not a "life", it is a potential life, and there is a lot of risk that this potential will not be achieved.

You are a clump of cells.

Life begins at fertilization. Not “potential life” but life.

Your statements are patently absurd and insane.

Open a book.

 

[flacaltenn]

The report is for "pregnancy related deaths".

Texas doctor are sending women with "partial miscarriages" home to bleed out until their lives are endangered. There is a high risk of sepsis and that the woman may not be able to have another baby because she wasn't treated properly for the miscarriage. Up to 1/3 of all pregnancies end in a "miscarriage" otherwise known as a "spontaneous abortion".

The treatment is a D&C - a surgical abortion, to clean the uterus after the miscarriage. Texas doctors admit to being afraid to perform this minor surgery, and being unable to find nurses to assist if they do.

Then there is an ectopic pregnancy - a pregnancy where the egg attaches to the fallopian tube and grows there until the zygote gets too big for the tube, rupturing it. When the tube ruptures, the woman has 10 minutes to get to the hospital or she dies. Doctors in Texas have to wait until the tube ruptures before they can treat this woman. There is no way of saving the pregnancy. 1 in 50 pregnancies is an ectopic pregnancy.

In "heartbeat states", they can't treat the woman in an ectopic pregnancy until the fetal heart stops beating, cutting the time to save the mother awfully close.

Talk about "spinning". The Texas law prevents doctors from performing an abortion until the life of the mother is at risk.

'
No. IT's NOT. It's a comprehensive report on EVERY TYPE of maternal deaths. Including pregnant junkies that OD on the streets. EVERY DEATH. You just used that excuse to badger the issue.

WHY would a Texas doctor send a SINGLE woman home who is having a miscarraige? Even assuming you could PRODUCE ONE CASE -- which I doubt -- they ARE professionally RESPONSIBLE for treating ANY SIDE EFFECTS of the miscarraige -- like "bleeding out".

I'll wait for all your research into that allegation.

 

[beautress]

Texas’s ban on abortions after six weeks has been in effect for about a year now, since the U.S. Supreme Court decided, from the shadow docket, to let it happen. Since then, the Court has overturned federal abortion protections, and Texas’s near-total ban has been enacted. Now it appears that Republican Gov. Greg Abbott’s administration is actively covering up any deaths that have occurred because of the forced birth laws.

The House Chronicle reports that the state’s health officials missed a deadline to report the first major update of pregnancy-related deaths in the state in almost a decade. The report was supposed to have been issued on Sept. 1, but now has been delayed indefinitely. By “indefinitely,” Texas officials seem to mean “until after the election of 2022 and maybe the one in 2024.”

Texas Republicans won’t allow lawmakers, public know how many people the abortion ban is killing

Texas’s ban on abortions after six weeks has been in effect for about a year now, since the U.S. Supreme Court decided, from the shadow docket, to let it happen. Since then, the Court has overturned federal abortion protections, and Texas’s near-total...

m.dailykos.com

At what point can you defend the indefensible? For someone who was so proud of their forced birth stance, they sure do hide it a lot.

Honey, I hate to tell ya this, but ALL births are forced.

 

[Dragonlady]

'
No. IT's NOT. It's a comprehensive report on EVERY TYPE of maternal deaths. Including pregnant junkies that OD on the streets. EVERY DEATH. You just used that excuse to badger the issue.

WHY would a Texas doctor send a SINGLE woman home who is having a miscarraige? Even assuming you could PRODUCE ONE CASE -- which I doubt -- they ARE professionally RESPONSIBLE for treating ANY SIDE EFFECTS of the miscarraige -- like "bleeding out".

I'll wait for all your research into that allegation.

I don't need "research". The stories have been published for over a year:

Because of Texas' abortion law, her wanted pregnancy became a medical nightmare

New, untested abortion bans have made doctors unsure about treating some pregnancy complications. That's led to life-threatening delays, and trapped families in a limbo of grief and helplessness.

www.npr.org

Women Face Risks as Doctors Struggle With Medical Exceptions on Abortion (Published 2022)

Of the 13 states with trigger bans, all make exceptions for abortions to save the life of the mother. But what defines a medical emergency?

www.nytimes.com

Texas laws say treatments for miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies remain legal but leave lots of space for confusion

Treatments for certain pregnancy complications are distinct from abortions under Texas laws, experts say, but confusion has already limited some patients’ access to life-saving procedures and medicines.

www.texastribune.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/20/abortion-miscarriage-texas-fetus-stell/

They Had Miscarriages, and New Abortion Laws Obstructed Treatment (Published 2022)

Surgical procedures and medication for miscarriages are identical to those for abortion, and some patients report delayed or denied miscarriage care because doctors and pharmacists fear running afoul of abortion bans.

www.nytimes.com

Texas hospitals are putting pregnant patients at risk by denying care out of fear of abortion laws

Medical professionals across the state have expressed confusion over what care they can provide amid Texas’ abortion ban, leading to some patients allegedly receiving delayed care or being turned away.

www.keranews.org

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't need "research". The stories have been published for over a year:

Because of Texas' abortion law, her wanted pregnancy became a medical nightmare

New, untested abortion bans have made doctors unsure about treating some pregnancy complications. That's led to life-threatening delays, and trapped families in a limbo of grief and helplessness.

www.npr.org

Women Face Risks as Doctors Struggle With Medical Exceptions on Abortion (Published 2022)

Of the 13 states with trigger bans, all make exceptions for abortions to save the life of the mother. But what defines a medical emergency?

www.nytimes.com

Texas laws say treatments for miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies remain legal but leave lots of space for confusion

Treatments for certain pregnancy complications are distinct from abortions under Texas laws, experts say, but confusion has already limited some patients’ access to life-saving procedures and medicines.

www.texastribune.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/20/abortion-miscarriage-texas-fetus-stell/

They Had Miscarriages, and New Abortion Laws Obstructed Treatment (Published 2022)

Surgical procedures and medication for miscarriages are identical to those for abortion, and some patients report delayed or denied miscarriage care because doctors and pharmacists fear running afoul of abortion bans.

www.nytimes.com

Texas hospitals are putting pregnant patients at risk by denying care out of fear of abortion laws

Medical professionals across the state have expressed confusion over what care they can provide amid Texas’ abortion ban, leading to some patients allegedly receiving delayed care or being turned away.

www.keranews.org

Although I support more lenient abortion rules than the Texas "heartbeat" because of PERSONAL experience -- NONE of those articles produced a women who was "bleeding out" and refused medical treatment.

The NPR story is over dramatized. It describes a pregnancy complication called Pre-term Pre-Natal Rupture of Membranes or PPROM. As the article says -- this complication occurs in about 3% of pregnancies. Taking the state of Texas OUT of this -- the normal medical approach is to closely monitor and WAIT until 36 weeks to INDUCE delivery unless the mother's life is threatened.

Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) | Cedars-Sinai

Preterm premature rupture of the membranes (PPROM) is a pregnancy complication. In this condition, the sac (amniotic membrane) surrounding your baby breaks (ruptures) before week 37 of pregnancy. Once the sac breaks, you have an increased risk for infection. You also have a...

www.cedars-sinai.org

How is PPROM treated?
Treatment will depend on your symptoms, pregnancy, and general health. It will also depend on how severe your condition is.

Hospital stay and bed rest
Your healthcare provider will watch you closely. They may monitor:

Signs of labor or contractions
Your baby’s movement, heart rate, and other tests
Symptoms of infection. These can include a fever and pain. Your baby’s heart rate may also increase.
Medicine
You may need these medicines:

Corticosteroids. These medicines can help your baby’s lungs grow and mature. If your baby is born early, their lungs may not be able to work on their own.
Antibiotics. You may need these to prevent or treat an infection.
Tocolytic medicines. These are used to stop preterm labor.
Induction of labor
Your healthcare provider may give you medicine to start labor. Or they may tell you to stop taking tocolytic medicine. Your labor likely won’t be induced until at least week 34 of pregnancy. But this may need to be done earlier if there are problems.

In short, medicine expects the probability of a normal birth if infections dont threaten the life of mother IF the mother is kept inactive and bed rested. THAT is an inconvenience and RISK to the mother, but doesn't MANDATE an abortion. In fact, if you are PRESCRIBED the tocolytic meds mentioned above -- just STOPPING them might induce labor pre-term.

Which IS what happened. And the State of Texas HAS an exception for the "serious risks to life or health of the mother"... And when the serious risk occurred -- they carried thru with inducement of labor leading to a stillborn WAY premature child. She didn't even HAVE to carry it for the 36 weeks mark.

The rest of that story is patented NPR trademarked drama.

NOW -- do I believe she SHOULD have had the option to accept her OBGYN intention to abort when it was 1st observed in hospital? Dont know. The mother was not a huge abortion fan either. And the guidance of ONE OBGYN --- to ME --- is NOT sufficient. I wouldn't be involved in a decision like that without 2nd -- maybe even 3rd opinions.

But when the symptoms of severe infection DID occur a few months later -- the state of Texas was not standing in the way of inducing an abortion that WOULD occur to an unviable fetus.

BTW -- ectopic pregnancies ALWAYS endanger the life of the mother and WOULD NEVER end with a baby. So whatever your other articles suggest -- THOSE would certainly be allowed under Texas law. Any "delays in the process" are imagined or technicalities that happen in scheduling procedures of ANY kind at hospitals.

 

[Dragonlady]

Although I support more lenient abortion rules than the Texas "heartbeat" because of PERSONAL experience -- NONE of those articles produced a women who was "bleeding out" and refused medical treatment.

The NPR story is over dramatized. It describes a pregnancy complication called Pre-term Pre-Natal Rupture of Membranes or PPROM. As the article says -- this complication occurs in about 3% of pregnancies. Taking the state of Texas OUT of this -- the normal medical approach is to closely monitor and WAIT until 36 weeks to INDUCE delivery unless the mother's life is threatened.

Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) | Cedars-Sinai

Preterm premature rupture of the membranes (PPROM) is a pregnancy complication. In this condition, the sac (amniotic membrane) surrounding your baby breaks (ruptures) before week 37 of pregnancy. Once the sac breaks, you have an increased risk for infection. You also have a...

www.cedars-sinai.org

How is PPROM treated?
Treatment will depend on your symptoms, pregnancy, and general health. It will also depend on how severe your condition is.

Hospital stay and bed rest
Your healthcare provider will watch you closely. They may monitor:

Signs of labor or contractions
Your baby’s movement, heart rate, and other tests
Symptoms of infection. These can include a fever and pain. Your baby’s heart rate may also increase.
Medicine
You may need these medicines:

Corticosteroids. These medicines can help your baby’s lungs grow and mature. If your baby is born early, their lungs may not be able to work on their own.
Antibiotics. You may need these to prevent or treat an infection.
Tocolytic medicines. These are used to stop preterm labor.
Induction of labor
Your healthcare provider may give you medicine to start labor. Or they may tell you to stop taking tocolytic medicine. Your labor likely won’t be induced until at least week 34 of pregnancy. But this may need to be done earlier if there are problems.

In short, medicine expects the probability of a normal birth if infections dont threaten the life of mother IF the mother is kept inactive and bed rested. THAT is an inconvenience and RISK to the mother, but doesn't MANDATE an abortion. In fact, if you are PRESCRIBED the tocolytic meds mentioned above -- just STOPPING them might induce labor pre-term.

Which IS what happened. And the State of Texas HAS an exception for the "serious risks to life or health of the mother"... And when the serious risk occurred -- they carried thru with inducement of labor leading to a stillborn WAY premature child. She didn't even HAVE to carry it for the 36 weeks mark.

The rest of that story is patented NPR trademarked drama.

NOW -- do I believe she SHOULD have had the option to accept her OBGYN intention to abort when it was 1st observed in hospital? Dont know. The mother was not a huge abortion fan either. And the guidance of ONE OBGYN --- to ME --- is NOT sufficient. I wouldn't be involved in a decision like that without 2nd -- maybe even 3rd opinions.

But when the symptoms of severe infection DID occur a few months later -- the state of Texas was not standing in the way of inducing an abortion that WOULD occur to an unviable fetus.

BTW -- ectopic pregnancies ALWAYS endanger the life of the mother and WOULD NEVER end with a baby. So whatever your other articles suggest -- THOSE would certainly be allowed under Texas law. Any "delays in the process" are imagined or technicalities that happen in scheduling procedures of ANY kind at hospitals.

Under the Texas law, there are exceptions for the life of the mother, but the reality is that doctors treating women for partial miscarriages, were refusing to perform D&C's. and one doctor tried to organize an operating room team for one of his patients, and couldn't get nurses to participate. The woman was sent home until her life was endangered.

Without access to reproductive care until their lives are endangered, there are other risks involved. Death isn't the only risk involved in delaying treatment. Many women are left infertile by failure to get prompt treatment. Leaving a dead fetus in utero until the body either expels it or infection results, is a poor choice for women.

 

[Blaster]

Life, in law, science, and religion, begins at birth. The clump of cells created at conception is not a "life", it is a potential life, and there is a lot of risk that this potential will not be achieved.

Life Begins at Fertilization with the Embryo's Conception

 

[Dragonlady]

Life Begins at Fertilization with the Embryo's Conception

You've posted a link to a university thesis, having no value whatsoever, in terms of this discussion.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

You've posted a link to a university thesis, having no value whatsoever, in terms of this discussion.

Open a fucking Biology textbook for the first time in your life.

This isn’t a disputed controversy, your assertions about life beginning with breath are just magical thinking and error - life begins at fertilization for every member of a sexually reproducing species, and last I checked, that includes Homo sapiens.

 

[Blaster]

You've posted a link to a university thesis, having no value whatsoever, in terms of this discussion.

Does the truth hurt?