Tesla Powerwall in Australia: Electricity bill dives from $660 to $50

[Old Rocks]

Professional racing is structured so that there is competition.

True, and Electric cars are not structured so that they can compete thus, like all things Electric, you want the rules changed to give the appearance, that Electric can compete.

In about ten years, the battery technology will have advanced to the point where the batteries will have as much or more energy density as liquid fuels. And they will beat the socks off of the ICE's. The ICE will be relegated to the same role as the horse is today.

Keep dreamin dude. Battery technology is stagnant for the most part. So long as that is the primary method of storing energy you ain't going nowhere. It is a old technology that is bound by the laws of physics.

Such an old fool you are, Mr. Westwall.

New lithium-ion battery design that's 2,000 times more powerful, recharges 1,000 times faster - ExtremeTech

Researchers at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign have developed a new lithium-ion battery technology that is 2,000 times more powerful than comparable batteries. According to the researchers, this is not simply an evolutionary step in battery tech, “It’s a new enabling technology… it breaks the normal paradigms of energy sources. It’s allowing us to do different, new things.”

Currently, energy storage is all about trade-offs. You can have lots of power (watts), or lots of energy (watt-hours), but you can’t generally have both. Supercapacitors can release a massive amount of power, but only for a few seconds; fuel cells can store a vast amount of energy, but are limited in their peak power output. This a problem because most modern applications of bleeding-edge tech — smartphones, wearable computers, electric vehicles — require large amounts of power and energy. Lithium-ion batteries are currently the best solution for high-power-and-energy applications, but even the best li-ion battery designs demand that industrial designers and electronic engineers make serious trade-offs when creating a new device.


Which brings us neatly onto the University of Illinois’ battery, which has a higher power density than a supercapacitor, and yet comparable energy density to current nickel-zinc and lithium-ion batteries. According to the university’s press release, this new battery could allow for wireless devices to transmit their signals 30 times farther — or, perhaps more usefully, be equipped with a battery that’s 30 times smaller. If that wasn’t enough, this new battery is rechargeable — and can be charged 1,000 times faster than conventional li-ion batteries. In short, this is a dream battery. (See: DoE calls for a chemical battery with 5x capacity, within 5 years – can it be done?)

 

[Old Rocks]

Tesla Motors Inc. will supply 20 megawatts (80 megawatt-hours) of energy storage to Southern California Edison as part of a wider effort to prevent blackouts by replacing fossil-fuel electricity generation with lithium-ion batteries. Tesla's contribution is enough to power about 2,500 homes for a full day, the company said in a blog post on Thursday. But the real significance of the deal is the speed with which lithium-ion battery packs are being deployed.

20 mwh is enough power to prevent blackouts? If that was true, the billions of dollars spend on Renewables would of prevented blackouts. 20 mwh? That is all they are short. Old Crock is really stupid.

Ah, Ms. Elektra, this is just the start. These batteries will be used at both ends of the grid. And they will actually eliminate many remaining coal fires plants because of the advantage they give to the renewables. And fools like you and Mr. Westwall will just be left beside the road, shouting 'Get a horse'.

 

[elektra]

Ah, Ms. Elektra, this is just the start. These batteries will be used at both ends of the grid. And they will actually eliminate many remaining coal fires plants because of the advantage they give to the renewables. And fools like you and Mr. Westwall will just be left beside the road, shouting 'Get a horse'.

No, idiot, the start was over 30 years ago, and maybe a trillion dollars ago. Now you propose to spend $44 trillion dollars and you call this just the beginning. You gotta be the dumbest man alive Old Dumbass. Renewables can not meet peak demand, Renewables can not supply enough energy at night to supply california with energy, now you think somehow there is excess to store? Where, from Ivanpah, ha, ha, ha. That is a multi billion dollar Solar Plant running on 24 hours of Natural Gas. That is great, Old Crock is going to use Natural Gas to charge batteries and call it a renewable technological advance. Idiots.

 

[elektra]

The time between my last post and the next post of Old Crock's is the amount of time that Old Crock is sitting around scratching his ass.

 

[westwall]

Professional racing is structured so that there is competition.

True, and Electric cars are not structured so that they can compete thus, like all things Electric, you want the rules changed to give the appearance, that Electric can compete.

In about ten years, the battery technology will have advanced to the point where the batteries will have as much or more energy density as liquid fuels. And they will beat the socks off of the ICE's. The ICE will be relegated to the same role as the horse is today.

Keep dreamin dude. Battery technology is stagnant for the most part. So long as that is the primary method of storing energy you ain't going nowhere. It is a old technology that is bound by the laws of physics.

Such an old fool you are, Mr. Westwall.

New lithium-ion battery design that's 2,000 times more powerful, recharges 1,000 times faster - ExtremeTech

Researchers at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign have developed a new lithium-ion battery technology that is 2,000 times more powerful than comparable batteries. According to the researchers, this is not simply an evolutionary step in battery tech, “It’s a new enabling technology… it breaks the normal paradigms of energy sources. It’s allowing us to do different, new things.”

Currently, energy storage is all about trade-offs. You can have lots of power (watts), or lots of energy (watt-hours), but you can’t generally have both. Supercapacitors can release a massive amount of power, but only for a few seconds; fuel cells can store a vast amount of energy, but are limited in their peak power output. This a problem because most modern applications of bleeding-edge tech — smartphones, wearable computers, electric vehicles — require large amounts of power and energy. Lithium-ion batteries are currently the best solution for high-power-and-energy applications, but even the best li-ion battery designs demand that industrial designers and electronic engineers make serious trade-offs when creating a new device.


Which brings us neatly onto the University of Illinois’ battery, which has a higher power density than a supercapacitor, and yet comparable energy density to current nickel-zinc and lithium-ion batteries. According to the university’s press release, this new battery could allow for wireless devices to transmit their signals 30 times farther — or, perhaps more usefully, be equipped with a battery that’s 30 times smaller. If that wasn’t enough, this new battery is rechargeable — and can be charged 1,000 times faster than conventional li-ion batteries. In short, this is a dream battery. (See: DoE calls for a chemical battery with 5x capacity, within 5 years – can it be done?)

Oh cool! The article is 3 years old. How are they coming with that? Got any recent updates? I did read the actual paper and lo and behold, the claim in the article is not what is claimed in the paper. The technology refers to micro batteries only. Quelle surprise surprise.

"High-performance miniature power sources could enable new microelectronic systems. Here we report lithium ion microbatteries having power densities up to 7.4 mW cm−2 μm−1, which equals or exceeds that of the best supercapacitors, and which is 2,000 times higher than that of other microbatteries. Our key insight is that the battery microarchitecture can concurrently optimize ion and electron transport for high-power delivery, realized here as a three-dimensional bicontinuous interdigitated microelectrodes. The battery microarchitecture affords trade-offs between power and energy density that result in a high-performance power source, and which is scalable to larger areas."


High-power lithium ion microbatteries from interdigitated three-dimensional bicontinuous nanoporous electrodes : Nature Communications

 

[Old Rocks]

Professional racing is structured so that there is competition.

True, and Electric cars are not structured so that they can compete thus, like all things Electric, you want the rules changed to give the appearance, that Electric can compete.

In about ten years, the battery technology will have advanced to the point where the batteries will have as much or more energy density as liquid fuels. And they will beat the socks off of the ICE's. The ICE will be relegated to the same role as the horse is today.

Keep dreamin dude. Battery technology is stagnant for the most part. So long as that is the primary method of storing energy you ain't going nowhere. It is a old technology that is bound by the laws of physics.

Such an old fool you are, Mr. Westwall.

New lithium-ion battery design that's 2,000 times more powerful, recharges 1,000 times faster - ExtremeTech

Researchers at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign have developed a new lithium-ion battery technology that is 2,000 times more powerful than comparable batteries. According to the researchers, this is not simply an evolutionary step in battery tech, “It’s a new enabling technology… it breaks the normal paradigms of energy sources. It’s allowing us to do different, new things.”

Currently, energy storage is all about trade-offs. You can have lots of power (watts), or lots of energy (watt-hours), but you can’t generally have both. Supercapacitors can release a massive amount of power, but only for a few seconds; fuel cells can store a vast amount of energy, but are limited in their peak power output. This a problem because most modern applications of bleeding-edge tech — smartphones, wearable computers, electric vehicles — require large amounts of power and energy. Lithium-ion batteries are currently the best solution for high-power-and-energy applications, but even the best li-ion battery designs demand that industrial designers and electronic engineers make serious trade-offs when creating a new device.


Which brings us neatly onto the University of Illinois’ battery, which has a higher power density than a supercapacitor, and yet comparable energy density to current nickel-zinc and lithium-ion batteries. According to the university’s press release, this new battery could allow for wireless devices to transmit their signals 30 times farther — or, perhaps more usefully, be equipped with a battery that’s 30 times smaller. If that wasn’t enough, this new battery is rechargeable — and can be charged 1,000 times faster than conventional li-ion batteries. In short, this is a dream battery. (See: DoE calls for a chemical battery with 5x capacity, within 5 years – can it be done?)

Oh cool! The article is 3 years old. How are they coming with that? Got any recent updates? I did read the actual paper and lo and behold, the claim in the article is not what is claimed in the paper. The technology refers to micro batteries only. Quelle surprise surprise.

"High-performance miniature power sources could enable new microelectronic systems. Here we report lithium ion microbatteries having power densities up to 7.4 mW cm−2 μm−1, which equals or exceeds that of the best supercapacitors, and which is 2,000 times higher than that of other microbatteries. Our key insight is that the battery microarchitecture can concurrently optimize ion and electron transport for high-power delivery, realized here as a three-dimensional bicontinuous interdigitated microelectrodes. The battery microarchitecture affords trade-offs between power and energy density that result in a high-performance power source, and which is scalable to larger areas."


High-power lithium ion microbatteries from interdigitated three-dimensional bicontinuous nanoporous electrodes : Nature Communications

High-performance miniature power sources could enable new microelectronic systems. Here we report lithium ion microbatteries having power densities up to 7.4 mW cm−2 μm−1, which equals or exceeds that of the best supercapacitors, and which is 2,000 times higher than that of other microbatteries. Our key insight is that the battery microarchitecture can concurrently optimize ion and electron transport for high-power delivery, realized here as a three-dimensional bicontinuous interdigitated microelectrodes. The battery microarchitecture affords trade-offs between power and energy density that result in a high-performance power source, and which is scalable to larger areas.

High-power lithium ion microbatteries from interdigitated three-dimensional bicontinuous nanoporous electrodes : Nature Communications

Crap, old man, don't you even read what you post? Scalable to larger areas. LOL

 

[Old Rocks]

The ultra-high volumetric energy density lithium-sulfur battery
January 23, 2014


Lithium ion battery technology (LIBs) is one of the most important mobile power sources for laptops, cameras, and smart phones. However, the current energy density of LIBs is approaching the theoretical limit, which underscoring the urgent need for new high energy density battery systems. Among the high-energy density storage systems, lithium-sulfur batteries, with energy density of 2600 Wh kg-1 (nearly 3~5 times than that of the traditional LIBs), holds the potential to serve as next generation of high energy battery. Sulfur possesses a very low electric conductivity of 5x10-30 S cm-1 at room temperature. Therefore, 30-70 wt. percent conductive materials, e.g. carbon nanotubes, graphene, porous carbon, and conductive polymers, have to be added into the electrode for high utilization of sulfur at current processing technology. The addition of nanocarbon materials with low stacking density neutralizes the high energy density, especially the volumetric energy density of lithium-sulfur batteries.



Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-01-ultra-high-volumetric-energy-density-lithium-sulfur.html#jCp

Other avenues.

 

[westwall]

True, and Electric cars are not structured so that they can compete thus, like all things Electric, you want the rules changed to give the appearance, that Electric can compete.

In about ten years, the battery technology will have advanced to the point where the batteries will have as much or more energy density as liquid fuels. And they will beat the socks off of the ICE's. The ICE will be relegated to the same role as the horse is today.

Keep dreamin dude. Battery technology is stagnant for the most part. So long as that is the primary method of storing energy you ain't going nowhere. It is a old technology that is bound by the laws of physics.

Such an old fool you are, Mr. Westwall.

New lithium-ion battery design that's 2,000 times more powerful, recharges 1,000 times faster - ExtremeTech

Researchers at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign have developed a new lithium-ion battery technology that is 2,000 times more powerful than comparable batteries. According to the researchers, this is not simply an evolutionary step in battery tech, “It’s a new enabling technology… it breaks the normal paradigms of energy sources. It’s allowing us to do different, new things.”

Currently, energy storage is all about trade-offs. You can have lots of power (watts), or lots of energy (watt-hours), but you can’t generally have both. Supercapacitors can release a massive amount of power, but only for a few seconds; fuel cells can store a vast amount of energy, but are limited in their peak power output. This a problem because most modern applications of bleeding-edge tech — smartphones, wearable computers, electric vehicles — require large amounts of power and energy. Lithium-ion batteries are currently the best solution for high-power-and-energy applications, but even the best li-ion battery designs demand that industrial designers and electronic engineers make serious trade-offs when creating a new device.


Which brings us neatly onto the University of Illinois’ battery, which has a higher power density than a supercapacitor, and yet comparable energy density to current nickel-zinc and lithium-ion batteries. According to the university’s press release, this new battery could allow for wireless devices to transmit their signals 30 times farther — or, perhaps more usefully, be equipped with a battery that’s 30 times smaller. If that wasn’t enough, this new battery is rechargeable — and can be charged 1,000 times faster than conventional li-ion batteries. In short, this is a dream battery. (See: DoE calls for a chemical battery with 5x capacity, within 5 years – can it be done?)

Oh cool! The article is 3 years old. How are they coming with that? Got any recent updates? I did read the actual paper and lo and behold, the claim in the article is not what is claimed in the paper. The technology refers to micro batteries only. Quelle surprise surprise.

"High-performance miniature power sources could enable new microelectronic systems. Here we report lithium ion microbatteries having power densities up to 7.4 mW cm−2 μm−1, which equals or exceeds that of the best supercapacitors, and which is 2,000 times higher than that of other microbatteries. Our key insight is that the battery microarchitecture can concurrently optimize ion and electron transport for high-power delivery, realized here as a three-dimensional bicontinuous interdigitated microelectrodes. The battery microarchitecture affords trade-offs between power and energy density that result in a high-performance power source, and which is scalable to larger areas."


High-power lithium ion microbatteries from interdigitated three-dimensional bicontinuous nanoporous electrodes : Nature Communications

High-performance miniature power sources could enable new microelectronic systems. Here we report lithium ion microbatteries having power densities up to 7.4 mW cm−2 μm−1, which equals or exceeds that of the best supercapacitors, and which is 2,000 times higher than that of other microbatteries. Our key insight is that the battery microarchitecture can concurrently optimize ion and electron transport for high-power delivery, realized here as a three-dimensional bicontinuous interdigitated microelectrodes. The battery microarchitecture affords trade-offs between power and energy density that result in a high-performance power source, and which is scalable to larger areas.

High-power lithium ion microbatteries from interdigitated three-dimensional bicontinuous nanoporous electrodes : Nature Communications

Crap, old man, don't you even read what you post? Scalable to larger areas. LOL

Hopefully scalable. Have they produced anything yet?

 

[Old Rocks]

You’ll Still Have To Wait Though
These batteries are amazing. They’re smaller, safer, and simply better. But Bosch expects they won’t be hitting the market until 2020.

Until then, there are some other exciting developments in battery tech to get excited about. Samsung is working on a battery that uses silicon anodes, and offers twice the capacity.

Meanwhile, Nanyang Technical University of Singapore is using titanium dioxide nanotube anodes in order to speed recharge times to two minutes, and increase the longevity of a battery to twenty years.

There’s also graphene technology, which is one of the most promising battery technologies around, as well as radically increase the computational power of the processors we use.

New Solid State Battery Will Double Electric Car Range

Many, many things happening in battery technology.

 

[westwall]

You’ll Still Have To Wait Though
These batteries are amazing. They’re smaller, safer, and simply better. But Bosch expects they won’t be hitting the market until 2020.

Until then, there are some other exciting developments in battery tech to get excited about. Samsung is working on a battery that uses silicon anodes, and offers twice the capacity.

Meanwhile, Nanyang Technical University of Singapore is using titanium dioxide nanotube anodes in order to speed recharge times to two minutes, and increase the longevity of a battery to twenty years.

There’s also graphene technology, which is one of the most promising battery technologies around, as well as radically increase the computational power of the processors we use.

New Solid State Battery Will Double Electric Car Range

Many, many things happening in battery technology.

Well, we've seen how the Samsung batteries are working. The graphene tech I agree has some potential. I believe they were able to ship their first commercial load so we'll have to see where that go's. I think it has many more applications in aerospace than battery tech, but time will tell. Tesla is working on the TiO2 battery tech and they haven't gotten very far with it.

 

[Old Rocks]

DARPA also has some grants out on Lithium-Air batteries. Should they get that technology down, the Tesla would have a range of about 1000 miles per charge.

 

[Esmeralda]

15k for the Tesla Powerwall, plus another 25k for the solar panels! 40k investment for a 60.00 a month electric bill? No mention of the subsidies either. Traditional power companies love these things. You have to build them with heavy industry, where power companies make their profit.

If your normal electricity bill is $660 a month, and with the solar panel you save $610 a month, in 10 years you save $73,200: more than makes up for th $40,000 initial cost

 

[elektra]

DARPA also has some grants out on Lithium-Air batteries. Should they get that technology down, the Tesla would have a range of about 1000 miles per charge.

Government making batteries? Government deciding which technology deserves money? Government picking which people are in business? And with a battery we do not need? Solar and Wind do not supply a fraction of the power we need, let alone enough to charge billions of batteries. Only a moron would suggest that we need to manufacture billions of batteries to save the World from Global Warming.

 

[elektra]

If your normal electricity bill is $660 a month, and with the solar panel you save $610 a month, in 10 years you save $73,200: more than makes up for th $40,000 initial cost

It is impossible for the average rooftop solar panel to produce $610 worth of electricity a month, they are too weak.

 

[westwall]

15k for the Tesla Powerwall, plus another 25k for the solar panels! 40k investment for a 60.00 a month electric bill? No mention of the subsidies either. Traditional power companies love these things. You have to build them with heavy industry, where power companies make their profit.

If your normal electricity bill is $660 a month, and with the solar panel you save $610 a month, in 10 years you save $73,200: more than makes up for th $40,000 initial cost

The reality is solar panels that the average family can afford don't produce anywhere close to that amount. Even industrial grade solar doesn't approach half of that sort of production. Average payback for a standard commercial solar system is around 25 years.

 

[Old Rocks]

15k for the Tesla Powerwall, plus another 25k for the solar panels! 40k investment for a 60.00 a month electric bill? No mention of the subsidies either. Traditional power companies love these things. You have to build them with heavy industry, where power companies make their profit.

If your normal electricity bill is $660 a month, and with the solar panel you save $610 a month, in 10 years you save $73,200: more than makes up for th $40,000 initial cost

The reality is solar panels that the average family can afford don't produce anywhere close to that amount. Even industrial grade solar doesn't approach half of that sort of production. Average payback for a standard commercial solar system is around 25 years.

Energy Payback Of Solar Rocks It! (Graph)

The energy payback time in which the energy input during the module life‐cycle is compensated by electricity generated by the PV module depends on several factors, including cell technology, PV system application, irradiation, the sources of energy used in its manufacturing processes and the energy the PV will displace.

For a typical 2 kWp rooftop system, the energy payback time is 2 to 3 years using multi‐crystalline modules and more than 7.5 times the energy used in its manufacture is generated over a 20 year life. For thin film modules, the payback time is half that of crystalline modules, but the lifetime may be shorter.


Click to Embiggen.

LOL Ol' Westwall just cannot cease to lie.

 

[Old Rocks]

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

One can find a whole system here, 6 kw+, for under 10K. That is less than the price of a used car.

 

[elektra]

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

One can find a whole system here, 6 kw+, for under 10K. That is less than the price of a used car.

Okay, lets forget that the price of just a Tesla PowerWall is much more than $10k, according to the thread in which Old Crock agrees with, it is not necessary to continue to try and show the moron he is grossly wrong. That said.....

Most houses need 22 kwh, the system Old Crock uses is 4 times to small!

 

[westwall]

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

One can find a whole system here, 6 kw+, for under 10K. That is less than the price of a used car.

Okay, lets forget that the price of just a Tesla PowerWall is much more than $10k, according to the thread in which Old Crock agrees with, it is not necessary to continue to try and show the moron he is grossly wrong. That said.....

Most houses need 22 kwh, the system Old Crock uses is 4 times to small!

Yup. They're not very good with numbers are they.

 

[Old Rocks]

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

One can find a whole system here, 6 kw+, for under 10K. That is less than the price of a used car.

Okay, lets forget that the price of just a Tesla PowerWall is much more than $10k, according to the thread in which Old Crock agrees with, it is not necessary to continue to try and show the moron he is grossly wrong. That said.....

Most houses need 22 kwh, the system Old Crock uses is 4 times to small!

10K would get you three Powerwalls for total of 30 kw/hrs. Then one would have to buy the inverter.