Terrorists Endorse Hillary

[Alpha1]

it never came to Bush's attention. Unlike Clinton's attention during the Y2K bombing threat at LAX, Bush did NOT demand daily briefings from all intelligence community heads. he did NOT demand that they "shake the tree" and force their organizations to report any information quickly up the chain. Had he done so, he might very well have known about the Oklahoma FBI agent's concerns about flight training.

So your post about " if he had listened to his FBI agents telling him about arabs learning to fly jets but not caring about landing...if he had....who KNOWS what he might have been able to stop." is just more of your bullshit....

As a matter of record, that fact barely made to anyone in Washington...and when it did...it was ignored for the most part and nothing was done by any law enforcement agency....it wasn't even shared to other agencys that might have gotten around to even a cursory investigation....
So your whole case about the August PDB is irrelevant.....
Oh yeah, there were screw-ups, by the FBI, by the CIA, buy alot folks,.... but not by Bush .

 

[maineman]

So your post about " if he had listened to his FBI agents telling him about arabs learning to fly jets but not caring about landing...if he had....who KNOWS what he might have been able to stop." is just more of your bullshit....

As a matter of record, that fact barely made to anyone in Washington...and when it did...it was ignored for the most part and nothing was done by any law enforcement agency....it wasn't even shared to other agencys that might have gotten around to even a cursory investigation....
So your whole case about the August PDB is irrelevant.....
Oh yeah, there were screw-ups, by the FBI, by the CIA, buy alot folks,.... but not by Bush .

no. If Bush had treated the August PDB with the same level of attention that Clinton took the Y2K threat, he would have been demanding that the FBI shake the tree and actively report things that, without that level of attention, did not get reported.

and if there were a lot of screw ups, on whose desk does the buck stop when it comes time to accept ultimate responsibility for those screw ups?

quit being such an asshole, how about it?

 

[Alpha1]

no. If Bush had treated the August PDB with the same level of attention that Clinton took the Y2K threat, he would have been demanding that the FBI shake the tree and actively report things that, without that level of attention, did not get reported.

That tired old Democrat catch phrase is still in your vocabulary? "shake the tree" ? Kinda cute, in a stupid way.....

I'm a bit more pragmatic...I live in the real world, not the world of catch phase one-liners....

If FBI and CIA agents don't take their jobs seriously, their Directors should fire their asses....there should be no need for them to be reminded to do their freekin' jobs....if they aren't already inclined to do their jobs no amount of demanding is going to change much...thats reality....if they don't know enough to report suspicious behavior, or what to do when such a report is made, they don't belong in their jobs, but its not for Bush to evaluate each and every employee in the government.....

and if there were a lot of screw ups, on whose desk does the buck stop when it comes time to accept ultimate responsibility for those screw ups?

On whose desk does the buck stop...? another cute, catch phrase...

IF YOU ARE AWARE of a particular issue or problem, then the buck stops with you.....I don't go blaming the coach when a receiver misses the ball or when a runner fumbles.....thats for the simple-minded....
IF THERE ARE SCREW-UPS, and YOU ARE AWARE OF THE SCREW-UPS, AND YOU DO NOTHING TO CORRECT THEM, certainly you bear some the blame....
There are no supermen...

quit being such an asshole, how about it?

You think because of a generic PDB that we should have been more alert...?
More alert than what....? The security at airports should ALWAYS be on the alert to suspicious activity, and same for CIA and FBI agents....thats their job...to be alert. Not sometimes, not on just Monday, not just after 6pm, but always, thats what they were hired for.... More alert, higher alert, thats bs.

Do you blame Clinton for USS Cole? Only a hack would....if the sailors on that ship weren't alert enough to see a danger, its certainly not the fault on some guy sitting in Washington....

It reminds of some guys on my bowling team....one guy will say, "Try to get a strike, we,re behind".........well no shit, EVERY time I roll the ball, I try to get a strike.....does anyone think you try to not get a strike.......

Can Democrats exist without looking to place blame on someone for every event that takes place....in the real world, sometimes shit happens....

 

[Dr Grump]

There is.....and do you know what....there will be even more terrorists and terrorists sympathizers on January 1, 2008.....probably because of Christmas, right.....it fits your logic....

The fanatic Muslims have been "growing" terrorists for 30 years....and the only reason there isn't even more of them is because we are finally killing a few....

My logic is infallible...you kill innocent folks, you get their relatives fighting against you.

Tell me this Delta...You're sitting home on your porch, shotgun on your lap, drinking your sour mash and listening to Travis Tritt and a cruise missile blows your house to smitherines. Your wife and kids are killed and you survive. Now, it turns out they were killed by a missile from some foreign power that was trying to "free" you. Turns out this foreign power has killed a lot of people they have tried to free. You eventually hear through the grapevine that the missle was aimed at someone else, or in fact, it was just a mistake and your family were collateral damage. Your reaction?
"Why, that's ok. No problemo. Accidents happen."
Is that your reaction? Your honest reaction?
Me? My reaction? Give me a fucking gun so I can go kill some of those sumbitches. Have I become a terrorist? An insurgent? Or a vigilante seeking revenge? Just imagine that this scenario has played out 10s or 1000s of times in the past four years.

Now tell me Oh Bright One, what would your reaction be? Your honest to goodness reaction. Don't bullshit me now....

 

[jillian]

You think because of a generic PDB that we should have been more alert...?
More alert than what....? The security at airports should ALWAYS be on the alert to suspicious activity, and same for CIA and FBI agents....thats their job...to be alert. Not sometimes, not on just Monday, not just after 6pm, but always, thats what they were hired for.... More alert, higher alert, thats bs.

Do you blame Clinton for USS Cole? Only a hack would....if the sailors on that ship weren't alert enough to see a danger, its certainly not the fault on some guy sitting in Washington....

It reminds of some guys on my bowling team....one guy will say, "Try to get a strike, we,re behind".........well no shit, EVERY time I roll the ball, I try to get a strike.....does anyone think you try to not get a strike.......

Can Democrats exist without looking to place blame on someone for every event that takes place....in the real world, sometimes shit happens....

Dude, there's no such thing as a "generic" PDB. My husband's a TSO and when they get "generic" notices of potential threats, damn right they check everybody... unless the bosses are asleep at the switch and no one sends them the proper info.

 

[Alpha1]

Dude, there's no such thing as a "generic" PDB. My husband's a TSO and when they get "generic" notices of potential threats, damn right they check everybody... unless the bosses are asleep at the switch and no one sends them the proper info.

Maybe my use of the word GENERIC wasn't given enough context to be clear....
Here are PDB's from 1998 to President Clinton and the Much talked about August, 2001 to President Bush....THREE YEARS APART....
notice the similarities ......this is what I mean when I use the word generic....

I would bet that many other PDB's given to these Presidents would be similar to these two.....essentially useless for any President to take a specific action on their contents.....
so lets give Bush's PDB a rest already....its contents was no more revealing than that given to Clinton 3 years before.

********************************************************

The following is the text of an item from the President's Daily Brief received by President William J. Clinton on December 4, 1998. It was declassified for the Report of the 9/11 Commission. Redacted material is indicated in brackets.

SUBJECT: Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks

1. Reporting [—] suggests Bin Ladin and his allies are preparing for attacks in the US, including an aircraft hijacking to obtain the release of Shaykh ‘Umar ‘Abd al-Rahman, Ramzi Yousef, and Muhammad Sadiq ‘Awda. One source quoted a senior member of the Gama’at al-Islamiyya (IG) saying that, as of late October, the IG had completed planning for an operation in the US on behalf of Bin Ladin, but that the operation was on hold. A senior Bin Ladin operative from Saudi Arabia was to visit IG counterparts in the US soon thereafter to discuss options—perhaps including an aircraft hijacking.

* IG leader Islambuli in late September was planning to hijack a US airliner during the “next couple of weeks” to free ‘Abd al-Rahman and the other prisoners, according to what may be a different source.

* The same source late last month said that Bin Ladin might implement plans to hijack US aircraft before the beginning of Ramadan on 20 December and that two members of the operational team had evaded security checks during a recent trial run at an unidentified New York airport.[—]

2. Some members of the Bin Ladin network have received hijack training, according to various sources, but no group directly tied to Bin Ladin’s al-Qa’ida organization has ever carried out an aircraft hijacking. Bin Ladin could be weighing other types of operations against US aircraft. According to [—] the IG in October obtained SA-7 missiles and intended to move them from Yemen into Saudi Arabia to shoot down an Egyptian plane or, if unsuccessful, a US military or civilian aircraft.

* A [—] in October told us that unspecified “extremist elements” in Yemen had acquired SA-7s.[—]

3. [—] indicate the Bin Ladin organization or its allies are moving closer to implementing anti-US attacks at unspecified locations, but we do not know whether they are related to attacks on aircraft. A Bin Ladin associate in Sudan late last month told a colleague in Kandahar that he had shipped a group of containers to Afghanistan. Bin Ladin associates also talked about the movement of containers to Afghanistan before the East Africa bombings.

* In other [—] Bin Ladin associates last month discussed picking up a package in Malaysia. One told his colleague in Malaysia that “they” were in the “ninth month [of pregnancy].”

* An alleged Bin Ladin supporter in Yemen late last month remarked to his mother that he planned to work in “commerce” from abroad and said his impending “marriage,” which would take place soon, would be a “surprise.” “Commerce”and “marriage” often are codewords for terrorist attacks. [—]

Source: Pages 128-129 of the 9/11 Commission Report

****************************************************************************************************************888
The following is the text of an item from the Presidential Daily Brief received by President George W. Bush on August 6, 2001. Redacted material is indicated by brackets.

Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate Bin Ladin since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Ladin implied in US television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

After US missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, Bin Ladin told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a [--] service.

An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told an [--] service at the same time that Bin Ladin was planning to exploit the operative's access to the US to mount a terrorist strike.

The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of Bin Ladin's first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the US. Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that Bin Ladin lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own US attack.

Ressam says Bin Ladin was aware of the Los Angeles operation.

Although Bin Ladin has not succeeded, his attacks against the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Ladin associates surveilled our Embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.

Al-Qa'ida members--including some who are US citizens--have resided in or traveled to the US for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks. Two al-Qua' da members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our embassies in East Africa were US citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a Bin Ladin cell in New York was recruiting [Islam in the United States|Muslim-American]] youth for attacks.

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a [--] service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Shaykh" 'Umar 'Abd al-Rahman and other US-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full field investigations throughout the US that it considers Bin Ladin-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our Embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group of Bin Ladin supporters was in the US planning attacks with explosives.

 

[maineman]

You think because of a generic PDB that we should have been more alert...?
More alert than what....? The security at airports should ALWAYS be on the alert to suspicious activity, and same for CIA and FBI agents....thats their job...to be alert. Not sometimes, not on just Monday, not just after 6pm, but always, thats what they were hired for.... More alert, higher alert, thats bs.

Do you blame Clinton for USS Cole? Only a hack would....if the sailors on that ship weren't alert enough to see a danger, its certainly not the fault on some guy sitting in Washington....

It reminds of some guys on my bowling team....one guy will say, "Try to get a strike, we,re behind".........well no shit, EVERY time I roll the ball, I try to get a strike.....does anyone think you try to not get a strike.......

Can Democrats exist without looking to place blame on someone for every event that takes place....in the real world, sometimes shit happens....

the fact remains: Clinton, when confronted with reports about the possibility of terror attacks on Y2K, took extraordinary action. He changed his normal workday routine to include daily briefings from the heads of CIA/FBI/NSA. He instructed each of them to take extraordinary measures, to specifically direct their field operations to quickly bring any relevant issues directly to the top and to avoid normal bureaucratic red tape. By doing so, he stopped the Y2K attack on LAX.

Bush, when confronted with reports about the possibility of terror attacks, blew it off and played golf. Now, if you want to say that that sort of response is everything you would hope for from a diligent commander in chief, go for it, but wipe the Bush shit from your nose and the Bush jism off your chin first.

 

[Alpha1]

the fact remains: Clinton, when confronted with reports about the possibility of terror attacks on Y2K, took extraordinary action. He changed his normal workday routine to include daily briefings from the heads of CIA/FBI/NSA. He instructed each of them to take extraordinary measures, to specifically direct their field operations to quickly bring any relevant issues directly to the top and to avoid normal bureaucratic red tape. By doing so, he stopped the Y2K attack on LAX.

You really gotta be a brain dead hack to give any credit to Clinton for the arrest of Ahmed Ressam in 1999, when it was a savvy female customs worker that actually tryed to detain him and did her job....Clinton, nor the FBI,CIA, or NSA had a freekin' thing to do with it, the very idea is laughable.....what a stretch....I guess not that much for kool-ade bather like you....

Bush, when confronted with reports about the possibility of terror attacks, blew it off and played golf. Now, if you want to say that that sort of response is everything you would hope for from a diligent commander in chief, go for it, but wipe the Bush shit from your nose and the Bush jism off your chin first.

-----Its amazing how the steady stream of Dem bullshit about Bush has actually become your reality....amazing and quite sad..

 

[maineman]

-----Its amazing how the steady stream of Dem bullshit about Bush has actually become your reality....amazing and quite sad..

and you think that her level of alertness was not heightened by the emphasis from above?

interesting, isn't it, that six years after we were attacked, the TSA minimum wage screener hacks at airports routinely fail security tests and let all sorts of nasty stuff get past them? I guess it says something about the level of competence that trickles down from above in the current administration.

But, with your mouthful of Bush splooge, I really can't expect critical thinking!

 

[red states rule]

and you think that her level of alertness was not heightened by the emphasis from above?

interesting, isn't it, that six years after we were attacked, the TSA minimum wage screener hacks at airports routinely fail security tests and let all sorts of nasty stuff get past them? I guess it says something about the level of competence that trickles down from above in the current administration.

But, with your mouthful of Bush splooge, I really can't expect critical thinking!

Yea, Dems are pissed the terorists have been unable to hit us again.

 

[maineman]

Yea, Dems are pissed the terorists have been unable to hit us again.

what a stupid suggestion. Democrats do not want anyone to attack america. Saying idiotic shit like that really marginalizes your value to discussions. Cut the wildly partisan rhetoric and stick to the issues.

 

[red states rule]

what a stupid suggestion. Democrats do not want anyone to attack america. Saying idiotic shit like that really marginalizes your value to discussions. Cut the wildly partisan rhetoric and stick to the issues.

I base that on the fact the left does not give any credit to pres Bush for NO attacks - but I know damn well they would blame him if we were hit again

The same way the left dismisses the progress being made in Iraq - they were foaming at the mouth to cut and run and surrender

Now they think by ignoring the good news - it will go away

 

[maineman]

I base that on the fact the left does not give any credit to pres Bush for NO attacks - but I know damn well they would blame him if we were hit again

The same way the left dismisses the progress being made in Iraq - they were foaming at the mouth to cut and run and surrender

Now they think by ignoring the good news - it will go away

I don't remember any republicans giving CLinton credit for the safety we enjoyed for the vast majority of his administration. Did that mean that the republicans at the time were hoping for terrorist attacks to happen on our soil so that they would embarrass him???

Stop your moronic adolescent partisan shit. you are boringly predictable.

 

[red states rule]

I don't remember any republicans giving CLinton credit for the safety we enjoyed for the vast majority of his administration. Did that mean that the republicans at the time were hoping for terrorist attacks to happen on our soil so that they would embarrass him???

Stop your moronic adolescent partisan shit. you are boringly predictable.

The first WTC bombing happened under Bill - and 4 other attacks overseas where Amercians were killed - and Bill did nothing

He allowed terrorism to run free and thanks to him OBL saw the US as a paper tiger

Stop living in a bubble MM and take off the blinders

 

[maineman]

The first WTC bombing happened under Bill - and 4 other attacks overseas where Amercians were killed - and Bill did nothing

He allowed terrorism to run free and thanks to him OBL saw the US as a paper tiger

Stop living in a bubble MM and take off the blinders

the first WTC attack occured less than a month after Clinton took office, yet you hang it on HIS head...while 9/11 happened eight months after Bush took office and you want to give him a pass and hang that on Cllinton's head as well. To claim that Bill "did nothing" is ridiculous. Just because his efforts did not result in ALL of the perpetrators being brought to justice does not mean he did nothing. Because OBL is still on the loose, are we to say that Dubya has "done nothing"?

The four attacks overseas were minor incidents compared to 9/11 or compared to most weeks at the marketplaces in Baghdad. Americans felt safe during Clinton's administration. Republicans were blasting him and his policies in Bosnia and they were critical of him when he attempted to use cruise missiles to take OBL out in Afghanistan.

Don't talk to me about blinders. You are wearing a blindfold and you continually bring a cudgel to a gunfight in this battle of wits.

 

[red states rule]

the first WTC attack occured less than a month after Clinton took office, yet you hang it on HIS head...while 9/11 happened eight months after Bush took office and you want to give him a pass and hang that on Cllinton's head as well. To claim that Bill "did nothing" is ridiculous. Just because his efforts did not result in ALL of the perpetrators being brought to justice does not mean he did nothing. Because OBL is still on the loose, are we to say that Dubya has "done nothing"?

The four attacks overseas were minor incidents compared to 9/11 or compared to most weeks at the marketplaces in Baghdad. Americans felt safe during Clinton's administration. Republicans were blasting him and his policies in Bosnia and they were critical of him when he attempted to use cruise missiles to take OBL out in Afghanistan.

Don't talk to me about blinders. You are wearing a blindfold and you continually bring a cudgel to a gunfight in this battle of wits.

During those eight months, The sopre loser Dems were blocking Pres Bush's appointments and whing how he was not elected

Clinton had 8 years to take on the terrorists and all he did was take Chi Com money and any women he could assualt

 

[maineman]

During those eight months, The sopre loser Dems were blocking Pres Bush's appointments and whing how he was not elected

Clinton had 8 years to take on the terrorists and all he did was take Chi Com money and any women he could assualt

hyperbolic flatulence. Did democrats exercising due dilligence on Bush appointees FORCE him to play golf all summer???? Did it FORCE him to ignore the August PDB? Did it FORCE Ashcroft to pull money out of the anti-terror task force budget and put it in the anti-porn task force budget the day before 9/11?

 

[red states rule]

hyperbolic flatulence. Did democrats exercising due dilligence on Bush appointees FORCE him to play golf all summer???? Did it FORCE him to ignore the August PDB? Did it FORCE Ashcroft to pull money out of the anti-terror task force budget and put it in the anti-porn task force budget the day before 9/11?

Aug is the month both Congress and the President go out of town. The President is never of a real vacation - not that these facts mean anything to you

Dems were not exercising due dilligence on Bush appointees - they were having a temper tanturm

 

[maineman]

Aug is the month both Congress and the President go out of town. The President is never of a real vacation - not that these facts mean anything to you

Dems were not exercising due dilligence on Bush appointees - they were having a temper tanturm

he was on vacation when he received the PDB about OBL determined to strike inside our borders. His immediate response: he played golf.

If terrorism was so important to the new Bush administration, why DID Ashcroft take money out of the DOJ anti-terrorism task force and move it to the anti-porn task force the DAY BEFORE 9/11? Because Dubya was putting his money where his priorities were.

 

[Alpha1]

I don't remember any republicans giving CLinton credit for the safety we enjoyed for the vast majority of his administration. Did that mean that the republicans at the time were hoping for terrorist attacks to happen on our soil so that they would embarrass him???

Stop your moronic adolescent partisan shit. you are boringly predictable.

More inane crap from the future intern for the DNC....

Our interests, at home and abroad were attacked at least 5 times during the Clinton Admin. with only the feeblest of a response from Billy...and 9/11 was planned during that Admin...with some those 19 terrorists coming into the US and leaving at will during that Admin....
And you have balls to give credit to Clinton for the job that a lowly female customs agent did in 1999....you can say with a straight face it so Clintons alerts that made her more alert....what a shamless fuckin' hack you are....

and its obvious you actually believe your own fantasys....you might even need some medical attention at this point.....sadly, your own wild imagination has become your reality.....