Taliban in Afghanistan - Our Real Terrorist Enemy

[jreeves]

"AQ in Iraq" is a group of Iraqis who took that name AFTER we invaded Iraq. I am sorry that you don't see the difference. If a pig decided to change its name to "cow", that wouldn't make the meat beef.

Lmao....you delusionary political hack. It is the same organization, it's head is Bin Laden....OMG your clueless

 

[maineman]

Lmao....you delusionary political hack. It is the same organization, it's head is Bin Laden....OMG your clueless

the connection between "AQ in Iraq" or AQ in Mesopotamia" to the original Al Qaeda and to bin Laden has not been established.

sorry.

 

[jreeves]

the connection between "AQ in Iraq" or AQ in Mesopotamia" to the original Al Qaeda and to bin Laden has not been established.

sorry.

Proof please?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

the connection between "AQ in Iraq" or AQ in Mesopotamia" to the original Al Qaeda and to bin Laden has not been established.

sorry.

And for people like you if we had a shot of Osama shaking hands with and handing loads of cash to the head of the group you would still claim no connection.

 

[maineman]

And for people like you if we had a shot of Osama shaking hands with and handing loads of cash to the head of the group you would still claim no connection.

if pigs had wings, they could fly.

what is your fucking point?

Do you HAVE any such photos or are you just blowing smoke out of your well travelled ass?

 

[jreeves]

the connection between "AQ in Iraq" or AQ in Mesopotamia" to the original Al Qaeda and to bin Laden has not been established.

sorry.

AL QAEDA IN IRAQ

AQI is part of the global al Qaeda movement both ideologically and practically. Ideologically, it lies on the extreme end of the takfiri spectrum. It was initially called the "Movement of Monotheism (tawhid) and Jihad," referring to the takfiri principle that human government (and Shiism) are polytheist. From its inception, AQI has targeted mainly Iraqis; it has killed many times more Muslims than Americans. Its preferred weapon is the suicide car-bomb or truck-bomb aimed at places where large numbers of Iraqi civilians, especially Shia, congregate. When the movement began in 2003 it primarily targeted Shia. Zarqawi sought to provoke a Shia-Sunni civil war that he expected would mobilize the Sunni to full-scale jihad. He also delighted in killing Shia, whom he saw as intolerable "rejectionists," who had received the message of the Koran and rejected it. Even worse than ignorance of the word of God is deliberate apostasy. The duty to convert or kill apostates supersedes even the duty to wage war against the regular unbeliever--hence -Zarqawi's insistence that the Shia were more dangerous than the "Zionists and Crusaders."

Bin Laden's associate Zawahiri remonstrated with Zarqawi on this point in a series of exchanges that became public. He argued that Zarqawi erred in attacking Shia, who should rather be exhorted and enticed to join the larger movement he hoped to create. Zawahiri's arguments were more tactical and strategic than ideological. He has no objection to killing unfaithful Muslims, but he has been eager to focus the movement on what he calls the "far enemy," America and the West.

Zarqawi too pursued attacks on Western targets, of course. He was implicated in the 2002 murder of USAID official Lawrence Foley in Jordan, and in the bombing of the United Nations office in Baghdad on August 19, 2003. But Zarqawi concentrated on attacking Iraqi Shia. A blast at the end of August 2003, for example, killed 85 Shia in Najaf, including Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim (older brother of Abd al-Aziz al-Hakim, the leader of the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council, the largest Shia party in the Council of Representatives), and a series of attacks on Shia mosques during the Ashura holiday in March 2004 killed over 180. He finally succeeded in provoking a significant Shia backlash with the destruction of the golden dome of the Shia al-Askariyah Mosque in Samarra in February 2006. Zarqawi was killed by coalition forces shortly thereafter, but his successors continued to attack Iraqi Shia, even as they began to attack Iraqi Sunnis. In this regard, AQI has always been even more extreme in its takfirism than the global al Qaeda movement, which has equivocated about the legitimacy of attacks on fellow Muslims and the tactical desirability of exacerbating the Sunni-Shia split.

Like bin Laden's al Qaeda, AQI sees itself as a vanguard and defines its aim as reestablishing the caliphate. Furthermore, like takfirist groups around the world, it has attempted to put its ideology into practice wherever it has been able to establish control. AQI attacks judges in Iraq because they usurp God's power to judge. It establishes sharia courts to enforce its interpretation of Muslim law and custom. It even formally declared the establishment of the "Islamic State of Iraq," whose capital it variously located in the major cities of Ramadi and Baquba and the small village of Balad Ruz in Diyala, among other places. It designates "emirs" (commanders) to perform various functions and exercise control. It behaves in every respect as al Qaeda and the Taliban did in Afghanistan; indeed, it is almost indistinguishable from those groups in these critical practices--and in its intention to reach beyond Iraq at every opportunity. Thus, in addition to the Foley assassination in 2002, AQI conducted a complex attack on hotels in Amman in November 2005 that killed 60.

But AQI is not simply a local franchise of the global al Qaeda concept. Its leaders participate in the development of the global ideology, as Zawahiri's exchanges with Zarqawi and al-Masri demonstrate. It sends aid to the global movement and asks for and receives aid from it. In particular, it receives an estimated 40 to 80 foreign fighters each month, who are recruited by al Qaeda leaders throughout the Muslim world, helped in their training and travel by al Qaeda facilitators, and, once in Iraq, controlled by AQI. Finally, as previously noted, the non-Iraqis who are its principal leaders were part of the global al Qaeda movement before coming to Iraq. There should be no question in anyone's mind that Al Qaeda In Iraq is a vital and central part of al Qaeda, that it interacts with the global movement, shares its aims and practices, and will assist it as much as it can to achieve their common goals.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/043delki.asp?pg=2

 

[maineman]

ah yes...the weekly standard. an objective non-partisan media outlet if ever there was one! [/sarcasm off]

 

[jreeves]

ah yes...the weekly standard. an objective non-partisan media outlet if ever there was one! [/sarcasm off]

Besides scoffing, why don't you analyze, why they are wrong? LOL and like your not a freaking political hack.

 

[maineman]

Besides scoffing, why don't you analyze, why they are wrong? LOL and like your not a freaking political hack.

it is the weekly standard. that is like your asking me to analyze the transcript of a Rush Limbaugh radio broadcast.

show me some non partisan source for such a connection.


I'll wait.

 

[jreeves]

it is the weekly standard. that is like your asking me to analyze the transcript of a Rush Limbaugh radio broadcast.

show me some non partisan source for such a connection.


I'll wait.

No I'm saying pick apart the evidence presented I am waiting?

 

[maineman]

No I'm saying pick apart the evidence presented I am waiting?

"evidence" I see no such "evidence". I see unsupported assertions by a notable conservative rag.

what else ya got?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

ah yes...the weekly standard. an objective non-partisan media outlet if ever there was one! [/sarcasm off]

So now your claiming that a non partisan news source would not equate Iraq Al Queda with any other Al Queda? What fantasy world do YOU live in?

 

[maineman]

So now your claiming that a non partisan news source would not equate Iraq Al Queda with any other Al Queda? What fantasy world do YOU live in?

I am saying that many news sources have stated that Al Qaeda in Iraq is a nationalist Iraqi organization that came about in response to our invasion and occupation of their country and does not share the vision or the strategic goals of Al Qaeda which is anything BUT nationalist in its scope.

 

[jreeves]

I am saying that many news sources have stated that Al Qaeda in Iraq is a nationalist Iraqi organization that came about in response to our invasion and occupation of their country and does not share the vision or the strategic goals of Al Qaeda which is anything BUT nationalist in its scope.

Can you please some inkling of proof that the article is way off track as you claim? Is it your position now, anything you disagree with is patently false, that's laughable?

 

[maineman]

Can you please some inkling of proof that the article is way off track as you claim? Is it your position now, anything you disagree with is patently false, that's laughable?

can you post some inkling of proof that the article is NOT off track?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

can you post some inkling of proof that the article is NOT off track?

Wrong, you claimed it is wrong, YOU have to prove YOUR contention. Or has senility set in and you have forgotten how that works?

 

[Warner]

No I would fight against them, your right. But I'm not going to blow myself up, to go to heaven to be with 12 young virgins either, or cut the heads off of journalists, slaughter people for cameras.....get the point? Yep, I'm sure that the terrorist from Syria feels great Iraqi national pride too.

Perhaps you would not. However, if the situation were such that the only chance for successfully driving an occupying force out of the USA were to utilize such tactics (suicide bombers) I would bet there would be many who are brave and patriotic enough to do so.

In WWII there were many instances where a company was ordered to effectively commit suicide in order that other elements could secure the victory. In real war this is necessary. A lack of such commitment gives the enemy the upper hand in any serious engagement.

You clearly do not understand who it is we are fighting. I suggest you sign up and spend a little time in Iraq or Afghanistan and find out. I can tell you this much... your eyes will open and you will realize just how much bigger thing we've bitten off really is than you currently believe.

 

[Warner]

can you post some inkling of proof that the article is NOT off track?

I suggest you too should sign up and see for yourself. If you're young enough and in good enough shape, you can join the military. If you're older and have the skills and are in good shape, you can sign up as a contractor or consultant and make some very good $ while your at it. In either case, you will see that the reality is nothing like what's being portrayed in the media - by either side.

For example, our government is about to engage in the most foolish of acts w.r.t. Afghanistan -- it looks like we are about to use aerial spraying of chemicals to destroy the poppy crops. Given that this is the single biggest source of income for most Afghans, this will surely drive 10's of thousands into the arms of the Taliban and AQ. The typical day wage for an Afghan male is about $3, when they can get work (which is not that often). However in the harvest season whole villages are emptied and they are paid about $25-$30 a day (sometimes even the women). This can easily be the one chance they have during the year to earn some real money. Also, the drug lords loan or gift money (and are not loan-sharkish about repayment) for things like weddings and other things which are essential to the Afghan culture. Marriage is expensive (by Afghan standards) and without such loans/gifts is nearly impossible for many (probably most) families to afford.

Until the Afghan economy is stable and does not rely on poppy production to function, cutting off poppy production by destroying the crops is pure foolishness... yet it will probably happen because it is a political hot-button item here in the USA. Grrrr....

We must understand the Arab culture(s) and the local situations of each sub-culture if we are to win this war. Until we do, we will make one blunder after another.

 

[AllieBaba]

So now your claiming that a non partisan news source would not equate Iraq Al Queda with any other Al Queda? What fantasy world do YOU live in?

A world where the ONLY information accepted is liberal propaganda. Period.

 

[Warner]

"evidence" I see no such "evidence". I see unsupported assertions by a notable conservative rag.

what else ya got?

Mainman, Jreeves seems to like to present information from some conservative source, which takes him almost no effort, and then demand that you do serious research to dispute it or you must accept it as fact. He is unwilling to actually look into the details of the sources he quotes.

He has his opinion - which basically is whatever his conservative idols tell him his opinion should be. He trusts them to do his thinking for him. So it's really kind of pointless to try to get into an in depth discussion with him since all he will do is reference surface details to defend his positions.