Taiwan Independence?

5stringJeff

Senior Member
Sep 15, 2003
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Puyallup, WA
My thoughts:

In theory, the US should support Taiwanese independence, if the Taiwanese desire it. It goes against the policy of supporting democracies worldwide to snub Taiwan. However, given the military's current situation, I think it is smart for Bush to at least delay the situation. Our military is busy right now in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. fighting the GWOT. To have the potential of putting a lot of our Navy/Air Force to work in the Taiwan Strait is too much right now. In the long run, though, I hope that the US shows support for the democracy in Taiwan.


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Bush Opposes Taiwan Bid for Independence

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) said Tuesday after meeting with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao that he opposes the apparent interest of Taiwan's leaders in taking steps toward independence.
Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office after a 40-minute meeting with Wen, Bush said he had told the premier, "The United States policy is one China."
"We oppose any unilateral decision by either China or Taiwan to change the status quo," Bush said, "and the comments and actions made by the leader of Taiwan indicate that he may be willing to make decisions unilaterally, to change the status quo, which we oppose."
It was the administration's strongest statement to date in opposition to Taiwan's plan to conduct a referendum on March 20 on whether the Taiwanese people want to demand that China withdraw hundreds of missiles aimed at Taiwan and renounce the use of force against the island.
The administration sees this as an indirect step toward independence, a view shared by Chinese authorities who have threatened military action against the island if the referendum proceeds as planned. But Wen, refraining from belligerent comments, said China's goal is to pursue peaceful reunification with Taiwan, "as long as a glimmer of hope" exists.
"Stability can only be maintained through unswerving opposition to pro-independence activities," Wen said. He said his country sought to maintain a system of "one country, two systems."
"We will do our utmost to bring about national reunification through peaceful means," Wen said.
"The Chinese government respects the desire of people in Taiwan for democracy, but we must point out that the (Taiwanese leaders) are only using democracy as an excuse and attempt to resort to defensive referendums to split Taiwan away from China," he said. "Such separatist activities are what the Chinese side can absolutely not accept."
On the issue of stability on the Korean peninsula, the United States hopes to be able to negotiate an end to North Korea (news - web sites)'s nuclear weapons program, with assistance from China.
At present, China is attempting to reconvene six-party talks aimed at resolving the impasse.
Bush expressed appreciation to China for starting the process this past summer.
"The goal is to dismantle a nuclear weapons program in a verifiable and irreversible way, and that is a clear message that we are sending to the North Koreans," Bush said. "We will continue to work with China and the other countries involved to solve this issue peacefully."
The other countries, aside from China and the United States, are the two Koreas, Japan and Russia.
In response to a question on trade disputes, Wen said China has been taking steps to reduce the massive U.S. trade deficit, adding that he planned to submit a proposal on this issue during his luncheon meeting with Bush and other officials. He gave no hint on what was in the proposal.
U.S.-China trade has come a long way since 25 years ago, Wen said. The combined total was a mere $2.5 billion a year, compared with the current figure of more than $100 billion, he said.
"We have to admit, though, in our economic and trade relationship, problems still exist, and mainly the U.S. trade deficit with China," Wen said — prompting a "thank you" from Bush.
"The Chinese government takes this problem seriously, and has taken measures to improve the situation," Wen said.
Earlier, during an arrival ceremony on the South Lawn, Bush gently chided China on human rights and on Beijing's economic policies.
"The growth of economic freedom in China provides reason to hope that social, political and religious freedoms will grow there as well," Bush told Wen and an audience of dignitaries. "In the long run, these freedoms are indivisible and essential to national greatness and national dignity."
China joined the World Trade Organization (news - web sites) two years ago. The administration has been pushing Beijing to speed up market opening measures and relax controls on its currency that it contends make Chinese exports unfairly cheap on world markets.
"We recognize that if prosperity's power is to reach into every corner of China, the Chinese government must fully integrate into the rules and norms of the international trading and finance system," Bush said.
Bush also said the growing strength and maturity of the relationship "allows us to discuss our differences, whether over economic issues, Taiwan, Tibet or human rights and religious freedom, in a spirit of mutual understanding and respect." Wen said: "At the present crucial juncture, we face opportunities and challenges. The fundamental interests of the two peoples require China and the United States to step up cooperation. ... China-U.S. relations must go on improving."
The administration's tough stance on Taiwan could reflect the importance that it attaches to continued Chinese cooperation on the North Korea issue. The United States and its partners in the talks are attempting to work out a statement that all sides, North Korea included, could agree to. If that goal is achieved, a new six-party meeting in Beijing will be convened.
On Monday, an administration official previewed for reporters U.S. opposition to Taiwan's plan to hold the March referendum. A new law gives him the power to hold a "defensive referendum" when the island's sovereignty faces imminent threat.
The referendum, timed to coincide with presidential elections, would ask voters whether they want to demand that China withdraw hundreds of missiles aimed at Taiwan and renounce the use of force against the island.
In Taipei, Taiwanese Foreign Minister Eugene Chien said: "The United States doesn't want our referendum to affect the stability in the Taiwan Strait. We fully understand this."
 
Agreed. It's simply good statesmenship to delay the Taiwan situation. I think the world understands that the US is a little overstretched (though I'm sure many don't agree with the reason why).

However, in the long run not to support Taiwanese democracy would be a disasterous undertaking. USA prides itself as the defender of democracy worldwide, but to reject Taiwan's bid would be hypocritical. I would hope that by one or two years from now especially with the lead up to the Beijing olympics, that the US would put its foot down. If it doesn't... well... i just hope it does. I should also add that this support should not be relegated to the US, but should be empraced by all modern democracies worldwide.
 
my opinion, I don't think this has as much to do with the military situation (seeing that the major, possibly only, threat is from chinese rockets) as it does with economics. Look at the trade difference between china and the US as well as the non-moderation of the yen compared to the dollar.
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
my opinion, I don't think this has as much to do with the military situation (seeing that the major, possibly only, threat is from chinese rockets) as it does with economics. Look at the trade difference between china and the US as well as the non-moderation of the yen compared to the dollar.

You make a very good point. However, do you not think that China would stem more to loose? As I recall their exports far outstrip US imports therefore the US is the main source of hard currency. I may certainly be wrong though. Economics is unfortunately not my strong suit.
 
go into any dollar general, family dollar whatever dollar store and try and find something NOT made in china. it simply cant be done. yes china needs us more than we need her. different subject but why do people buy that cheap shit anyways, it dont last or hold up. another thread for another day:D
 
alright, I don't profess to be an economics guru but if china needs us more than we need them I have two questions..

1) why is the white house making a big deal about getting china to change its trade policy as well as its currency fluctuation?

2) If its NOT an economic issue then why don't we send an amphibious force out between them and let taiwan do its independence deal?
 
why? their trade policy at this time does not favor us at all, read that upside down like as in car loan.... as for #2 you have a good point...militirally we may be thin...no sure..what do you think?
 
Taiwan always been independent from China...

Taiwan was never part of China
Wed, Jan 06, 2016 - The presidential debates have revealed the prevailing misunderstandings between political leaders regarding the nation’s relationship with China.
No such thing as the so-called “1992 consensus” took place in 1992. Former Mainland Affairs Council chairman Su Chi (蘇起) admitted making up the term in 2000 and it was not until the 2001 legislative election that the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT), led by then-chairman Lien Chan (連戰), began emphasizing the “1992 consensus.” Beijing repeatedly denounced the term until 2005, when it accepted the “1992 consensus” during Lien’s visit to Beijing. Democratic Progressive Party Chairperson Tsai Ing-wen (蔡英文) has said that the “1992 consensus” was not necessary for the discussions that took place between Taiwan and China from 1992 to 2005. The “1992 consensus” — a tacit understanding between the KMT and the Chinese government that both sides of the Taiwan Strait acknowledge there is “one China,” with each side having its own interpretation of what “China” means — is dangerous for Taiwan, because of its emphasis on “one China.”

President Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) demonstrated how real this danger is when he neglected to mention the phrase “with each side having its own interpretation” during his meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping (習近平) in Singapore on Nov. 7 last year. China unlawfully claims sovereignty over Taiwan and has 1,500 missiles aimed at the nation. The KMT, under Chiang Kai-shek (蔣介石) and Chiang Ching-kuo (蔣經國), has claimed, as Beijing claims today, that Taiwan and China have always been united. However, Taiwan was only ruled by a Han Chinese regime based in China for only four years from 1945 to 1949; the worst four years in the nation’s history, when troops systematically killed more than 20,000 elites, students and other people. Seventeenth century Dutch and Spanish documents show that Taiwan had no permanent Han Chinese communities until the Dutch started bringing Chinese workers in 1624.

Cheng Cheng-kung’s (鄭成功) family, which succeeded the Dutch in 1662, did not bring the nation under Ming Dynasty rule. The last Southern Ming emperor had died in Yunnan 18 years after the Manchus succeeded the Ming, the same year Cheng conquered Taiwan. Cheng died within six months of his arrival in Taiwan and his family maintained an independent administration, separate from the Manchu empire, which at the time ruled China. The Manchus invaded Taiwan when the Cheng family joined the rebels. Twice the size of the Ming empire, the Manchu empire was not Chinese, and it turned China into a colony, just as it colonized Taiwan and many other central Asian territories. Sun Yat-sen (孫逸仙) has said that he saw the Manchus as foreigners who invaded China. Afterwards, the Japanese established colonial rule in Taiwan from 1895 to 1945.

Chiang Kai-shek’s and Chiang Ching-kuo’s regime was similar to that of the Japanese in six ways:
 
Libtard pussies are skeered that the big mean Chicoms will hurt them if we back an independent Taiwan.

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