Suicide...a right or not?

[The Illusion]

Denying someone the right could be seen as selfish too. I never said otherwise, in fact if you recall I supported a person having the right to commit suicide. It's possible to be in favor or something without actually wanting it for yourself. Just ask all the non-gay supporters of gay marriage.

I knew someone would bring up medical reasons. This isn't the same to me because typically close family is aware of the situation and there has been communication. It's not Surprise! Bob's hanging from the rafters! or... Damn, I always used to think Susie looked good in red. I would still consider it selfish if someone did it for medical reasons without talking to their family first. That's really the difference to me, the communication between people.

So say that someone wanted to commit suicide and decided to by going about it in a very realistic and responsible way - allowing all of the family members to know what was happening, why, and putting all of your assets and bills in order first.. making sure the kids were going to be taken care of...etc.

What if the government put up a way of making suicide possible through means which involved testing first, counseling maybe..etc. I dont see that as being selfish in any way.

Taking ones life isnt a selfish act - its a realistic act. If someone doesnt want to live and is only causing more grief for themselves by living..why should they have to endure that suffering?

Jamie

I think you're putting a lot of effort into slicing and dicing the issue that isn't necessary. No 1 can stop anyone else from committing suicide. No 1 has to be happy about someone else committing suicide. I don't think the current system is flawed enough to want to get government even more involved in our lives.

I dont think its right that the government can lock someone up for being mentally ill if they try to commit suicide. I dont think its any of the governments business. Its a realm where they do not belong.

The government basically said that "heres a little box for you all to live and play in. We will stay on the four corner posts and watch you so nobody hurts you and so you dont kill each other..and you guys can mingle and live inside the box all you want." THEN recent times came around and the government decided they wanted to jump in the box with us and mingle and get in the way of everything. So now.. we have a box that we live in and we cannot move because the government is in our way. That is injustice and unconstitutional.

Jamie

 

[Gudrid]

The government basically said that "heres a little box for you all to live and play in. We will stay on the four corner posts and watch you so nobody hurts you and so you dont kill each other..and you guys can mingle and live inside the box all you want." THEN recent times came around and the government decided they wanted to jump in the box with us and mingle and get in the way of everything. So now.. we have a box that we live in and we cannot move because the government is in our way. That is injustice and unconstitutional.

Jamie

Totally agree. Also, people have the right to be selfish.

 

[The Illusion]

It's easy to see when someone spells it out.. because thats exactlly whats going on.. and thats why im Libertarian.

Jamie

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You dont have an obligation or responsibility to anyone except yourself. If people are hurt by your committing suicide, then that is on them. They control how they feel, not you or anyone else. It is selfish to think that we cannot commit suicide if we wanted to just because it would hurt someone else. And the God concept...not all people believe in god so they dont have an obligation to that.

Are you channeling Ayn Rand?

It's selfish to think our actions don't affect others. Committing suicide is probably the most selfish act 1 can commit. Though abortion is right up there with it.

How is suicide selfish when the person is doing it for their own wanting? Is it selfish because it would hurt others? I would be more inclined to think that not wanting someone who wants to commit suicide is being selfish...because you would be infringing on the rights of that person to do what he/she wants with their body/life. Thats the selfish act...not the suicide itself.

Jamie

Are you insane? The family and friends of someone that commits suicide are left blaming themselves for that act and most NEVER get over it. Most always think it was their fault, if they had just been better, helped more, known how to help, etc etc etc. Suicide is beyond selfish. You generally are committing suicide over a temporary problem that would have resolved itself. And again you leave everyone that ever cared for you hurt and thinking it was their fault.

It is hardest on children. They have not had enough life experience to even begin to cope with the suicide of a loved one and they almost always blame themselves. Adults blame themselves but at least they have more life experience and can rationalize why it might not have been their fault.

So you think a father should sit his 6 year old down and explain to them why he just has to kill himself? A son should sit his parents down and explain to them why it is better for him to just kill himself? Getting the idea yet?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So say that someone wanted to commit suicide and decided to by going about it in a very realistic and responsible way - allowing all of the family members to know what was happening, why, and putting all of your assets and bills in order first.. making sure the kids were going to be taken care of...etc.

What if the government put up a way of making suicide possible through means which involved testing first, counseling maybe..etc. I dont see that as being selfish in any way.

Taking ones life isnt a selfish act - its a realistic act. If someone doesnt want to live and is only causing more grief for themselves by living..why should they have to endure that suffering?

Jamie

I think you're putting a lot of effort into slicing and dicing the issue that isn't necessary. No 1 can stop anyone else from committing suicide. No 1 has to be happy about someone else committing suicide. I don't think the current system is flawed enough to want to get government even more involved in our lives.

I dont think its right that the government can lock someone up for being mentally ill if they try to commit suicide. I dont think its any of the governments business. Its a realm where they do not belong.

The government basically said that "heres a little box for you all to live and play in. We will stay on the four corner posts and watch you so nobody hurts you and so you dont kill each other..and you guys can mingle and live inside the box all you want." THEN recent times came around and the government decided they wanted to jump in the box with us and mingle and get in the way of everything. So now.. we have a box that we live in and we cannot move because the government is in our way. That is injustice and unconstitutional.

Jamie

You are sadly mistaken if you think the Government locks people up for suicidal attempts. The system is designed to boot people out of care as fast as possible. All they do is get the person well enough to lie about wanting to kill themselves and then they release them. 4 to 6 days usually is the max stay. Insurance does not want to pay for mental health services and neither does the Government. Unless you have a rich family pulling strings or you are looney in some other way, they will not be keeping you long for a failed suicide attempt.

 

[The Illusion]

You are sadly mistaken if you think the Government locks people up for suicidal attempts. The system is designed to boot people out of care as fast as possible. All they do is get the person well enough to lie about wanting to kill themselves and then they release them. 4 to 6 days usually is the max stay. Insurance does not want to pay for mental health services and neither does the Government. Unless you have a rich family pulling strings or you are looney in some other way, they will not be keeping you long for a failed suicide attempt.

But they still lock them up - and thats the point. They shouldnt be interfering in the first place not to mention wasting all the money trying to get the person to lie saying that they really dont want to commit suicide. What a waste.

Jamie

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are sadly mistaken if you think the Government locks people up for suicidal attempts. The system is designed to boot people out of care as fast as possible. All they do is get the person well enough to lie about wanting to kill themselves and then they release them. 4 to 6 days usually is the max stay. Insurance does not want to pay for mental health services and neither does the Government. Unless you have a rich family pulling strings or you are looney in some other way, they will not be keeping you long for a failed suicide attempt.

But they still lock them up - and thats the point. They shouldnt be interfering in the first place not to mention wasting all the money trying to get the person to lie saying that they really dont want to commit suicide. What a waste.

Jamie

Ya we shouldn't help sick people. I get it. Dumb ass.

 

[Amanda]

Are you channeling Ayn Rand?

It's selfish to think our actions don't affect others. Committing suicide is probably the most selfish act 1 can commit. Though abortion is right up there with it.

How is suicide selfish when the person is doing it for their own wanting? Is it selfish because it would hurt others? I would be more inclined to think that not wanting someone who wants to commit suicide is being selfish...because you would be infringing on the rights of that person to do what he/she wants with their body/life. Thats the selfish act...not the suicide itself.

Jamie

Are you insane?

I think you may have just cut to the heart of the matter.

 

[The Illusion]

Ya we shouldn't help sick people. I get it. Dumb ass.

Read unless you cannot. I never said we should not help sick people.. I said they should not push them into lying...thats a waste. And that they government has no business putting people away for trying to commit suicide. Those people are not sick, at least most of them - they are 1. out for attention or 2. want to end their life. Do they not have that right?

Jamie

 

[brewerboy]

I'm not in favor of dogs eating dogs...

Outcry Over Pets in Pet Food

Nice dodge

It's actually a Honda.

Mostly I don't know what you were getting at and I'm already half way to being seriously drunk, so... hilarity ensues!

Haha

Right on

 

[Gudrid]

Wikipedia tells me that suicide isn't illegal in the US anymore. And Wikipedia never lies.

 

[Emma]

I think you're putting a lot of effort into slicing and dicing the issue that isn't necessary. No 1 can stop anyone else from committing suicide. No 1 has to be happy about someone else committing suicide. I don't think the current system is flawed enough to want to get government even more involved in our lives.

I dont think its right that the government can lock someone up for being mentally ill if they try to commit suicide. I dont think its any of the governments business. Its a realm where they do not belong.

The government basically said that "heres a little box for you all to live and play in. We will stay on the four corner posts and watch you so nobody hurts you and so you dont kill each other..and you guys can mingle and live inside the box all you want." THEN recent times came around and the government decided they wanted to jump in the box with us and mingle and get in the way of everything. So now.. we have a box that we live in and we cannot move because the government is in our way. That is injustice and unconstitutional.

Jamie

You are sadly mistaken if you think the Government locks people up for suicidal attempts. The system is designed to boot people out of care as fast as possible. All they do is get the person well enough to lie about wanting to kill themselves and then they release them. 4 to 6 days usually is the max stay. Insurance does not want to pay for mental health services and neither does the Government. Unless you have a rich family pulling strings or you are looney in some other way, they will not be keeping you long for a failed suicide attempt.

Actually they WILL lock you up if you won't voluntarily commit (if they feel you're too much of a danger to yourself or others to be treated as an outpatient). Most insurance pays for 2 weeks of inpatient treatment although (here in this state at least) the sentence is for "up to 180 days".

 

[Amanda]

I dont think its right that the government can lock someone up for being mentally ill if they try to commit suicide. I dont think its any of the governments business. Its a realm where they do not belong.

The government basically said that "heres a little box for you all to live and play in. We will stay on the four corner posts and watch you so nobody hurts you and so you dont kill each other..and you guys can mingle and live inside the box all you want." THEN recent times came around and the government decided they wanted to jump in the box with us and mingle and get in the way of everything. So now.. we have a box that we live in and we cannot move because the government is in our way. That is injustice and unconstitutional.

Jamie

You are sadly mistaken if you think the Government locks people up for suicidal attempts. The system is designed to boot people out of care as fast as possible. All they do is get the person well enough to lie about wanting to kill themselves and then they release them. 4 to 6 days usually is the max stay. Insurance does not want to pay for mental health services and neither does the Government. Unless you have a rich family pulling strings or you are looney in some other way, they will not be keeping you long for a failed suicide attempt.

Actually they WILL lock you up if you won't voluntarily commit (if they feel you're too much of a danger to yourself or others to be treated as an outpatient). Most insurance pays for 2 weeks of inpatient treatment although (here in this state at least) the sentence is for "up to 180 days".

Killing, even 1's self, is pretty serious stuff. I don't think the gov't is out of line to detain people under these kinds of circumstances. If not for their own safety, then for that of those around them. Not everyone quietly takes a bottle of pills and goes to sleep. Some people are so angry they take out as many others as they can first.

 

[The Illusion]

Killing, even 1's self, is pretty serious stuff. I don't think the gov't is out of line to detain people under these kinds of circumstances. If not for their own safety, then for that of those around them. Not everyone quietly takes a bottle of pills and goes to sleep. Some people are so angry they take out as many others as they can first.

Thats another topic completely.

Jamie

 

[AllieBaba]

Ya we shouldn't help sick people. I get it. Dumb ass.

Read unless you cannot. I never said we should not help sick people.. I said they should not push them into lying...thats a waste. And that they government has no business putting people away for trying to commit suicide. Those people are not sick, at least most of them - they are 1. out for attention or 2. want to end their life. Do they not have that right?

Jamie

You are an idiot. They are sick. They are frequently drug affected, suffering from clinical depression, suffering from PTSD...all of which are treatable.

 

[The Illusion]

Ya we shouldn't help sick people. I get it. Dumb ass.

Read unless you cannot. I never said we should not help sick people.. I said they should not push them into lying...thats a waste. And that they government has no business putting people away for trying to commit suicide. Those people are not sick, at least most of them - they are 1. out for attention or 2. want to end their life. Do they not have that right?

Jamie

You are an idiot. They are sick. They are frequently drug affected, suffering from clinical depression, suffering from PTSD...all of which are treatable.

I disagree. There are plenty of situations out there where the people arent mentally ill and that want to commit suicide for a valid reason.

Jamie

 

[AllieBaba]

Read unless you cannot. I never said we should not help sick people.. I said they should not push them into lying...thats a waste. And that they government has no business putting people away for trying to commit suicide. Those people are not sick, at least most of them - they are 1. out for attention or 2. want to end their life. Do they not have that right?

Jamie

You are an idiot. They are sick. They are frequently drug affected, suffering from clinical depression, suffering from PTSD...all of which are treatable.

I disagree. There are plenty of situations out there where the people arent mentally ill and that want to commit suicide for a valid reason.

Jamie

Give me the stats, genius.

 

[Gudrid]

I don't know the stats, but I do know there's people who are not mentally ill who commit suicide. Some examples have already been given in this thread, like terminally ill people. I would hope it takes more than someone being suicidal to declare them mentally incompetent.

 

[Emma]

I don't know the stats, but I do know there's people who are not mentally ill who commit suicide. Some examples have already been given in this thread, like terminally ill people. I would hope it takes more than someone being suicidal to declare them mentally incompetent.

Some are very clear-headed in their decision (terminal or not). Perhaps they are giving in to what some may think is a temporary or treatable condition, but that doesn't mean they don't understand the consequences of their actions or that other options are available.

 

[Avatar4321]

The government has a responsibility to protect life. Otherwise, what is the real point of government?

However, Im not sure the government has much power to punish you after your dead.