Suicide...a right or not?

[Amanda]

Oh, and Vinny or Jaime, or whatever... get an avatar up, the flowery way you write makes me think you might be a real contender for our next "Gayest Avatar" contest.

 

[Liability]

A little dittty to go with this thread

Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see . . .
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

I try to find a way to make all our little joys relate
Without that ever-present hate but now I know that its too late,

and . . .That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

The game of life is hard to play. Im gonna lose it anyway.

The losing card Ill someday lay so this is all I have to say.

That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

The only way to win is cheat and lay it down before Im beat,

and to another give my seat for thats the only painless feat.

That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

The sword of time will pierce our skins it doesnt hurt when it begins

But as it works its way on in the pain grows stronger . . . watch it grin, but . . .
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

A brave man once requested me to answer questions that are key
'Is it to be or not to be' and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.
And you can do the same thing if you choose​

From the original movie "M*A*S*H"

 

[manifold]

If they 'really' want to do it, its impossible to fail.

Most attempts are pleas for help.

For the able bodied perhaps. But what about the bed-ridden, terminal cancer patient who needs assistance?

 

[Care4all]

Read unless you cannot. I never said we should not help sick people.. I said they should not push them into lying...thats a waste. And that they government has no business putting people away for trying to commit suicide. Those people are not sick, at least most of them - they are 1. out for attention or 2. want to end their life. Do they not have that right?

Jamie

You are an idiot. They are sick. They are frequently drug affected, suffering from clinical depression, suffering from PTSD...all of which are treatable.

I disagree. There are plenty of situations out there where the people arent mentally ill and that want to commit suicide for a valid reason.

Jamie

like who? who are these ''plenty''

 

[The Illusion]

You are an idiot. They are sick. They are frequently drug affected, suffering from clinical depression, suffering from PTSD...all of which are treatable.

I disagree. There are plenty of situations out there where the people arent mentally ill and that want to commit suicide for a valid reason.

Jamie

like who? who are these ''plenty''

Google Elderly Suicide: Elderly at highest risk for suicide - USATODAY.com

And Euthanasia: http://www.deathwithdignity.org/news/news/gallup.06.19.06.asp


Jamie

 

[manifold]

I don't know about "plenty" Care, but here is a situation that isn't exactly rare:

A guy is terminally ill and in need of constant professional care (and hardcore drugs) for the last 6 months of his life. During that time the healthcare bills keep piling and piling. So when he finally dies, what do you think happens to the life insurance payout that was intended to help his wife and children? You guess it, they only see what's left over, if anything, after all the creditors get paid. Had he been allowed to self-terminate, as it were, thereby avoiding those costly six months, he'd leave more for his family. Of course he can't do that because suicide voids his life insurance policy. Is that really fair?

 

[Care4all]

I disagree. There are plenty of situations out there where the people arent mentally ill and that want to commit suicide for a valid reason.

Jamie

like who? who are these ''plenty''

Google Elderly Suicide: Elderly at highest risk for suicide - USATODAY.com

Jamie

so instead of helping these people you want to give them permission to kill themselves?

and make all the ones around them sick that they were not able to help you, like the niece of this woman who offed herself?

i'm sorry illusion, but i don't see that as compassionate or humane...in any many.

Elderly at highest risk for suicide

The Associated Press
Not long after 72-year-old Anne Beale Golsan had retired on disability from her job as a librarian, she put a stack of paid bills out for the mail, hung up a freshly pressed outfit and taped a note to the front of the house. "Don't come in by yourself. Get somebody to come with you. Sorry, Love Beale."

Her niece arrived at the house they shared in Baton Rouge, to find police already there. Golsan had killed herself with a gunshot to the head.

"Every single day it makes me feel like I wish I could have done something," Jane Golsan Ray said, recalling her aunt's death eight years ago. "I wish I could turn back the clock and prevent it. It doesn't get any better, it hurts every day."

The elderly are the highest risk population in the country for suicide. But few suicide-prevention programs target them — a result, advocates say, of scarce funding and lack of concern for older Americans.

And mental heath experts say the number of elderly suicides is likely to climb as baby boomers enter their twilight years.

 

[vincubus]

If they 'really' want to do it, its impossible to fail.

Most attempts are pleas for help.

For the able bodied perhaps. But what about the bed-ridden, terminal cancer patient who needs assistance?

intelligent content, and a fresh perspective opened up. thanks

 

[Missourian]

You don't have a right to life if you don't also have a right to end it.

 

[Care4all]

I don't know about "plenty" Care, but here is a situation that isn't exactly rare:

A guy is terminally ill and in need of constant professional care (and hardcore drugs) for the last 6 months of his life. During that time the healthcare bills keep piling and piling. So when he finally dies, what do you think happens to the life insurance payout that was intended to help his wife and children? You guess it, they only see what's left over, if anything, after all the creditors get paid. Had he been allowed to self-terminate, as it were, thereby avoiding those costly six months, he'd leave more for his family. Of course he can't do that because suicide voids his life insurance policy. Is that really fair?

he spoke of "plenty of people who were not sick", i thought or something of the sort? I will have to go back and check....?

and as far as your scenario...my father in law was such a case Mani, so he refused to continue with treatment in the hospital, they sent him home with pain killers, to die...with a Hospice person visiting the house every day, until he died, with his entire family around him, in the living room, on his recliner, 2 am in the morning.....at 6'4'' and 87lbs when he died.....believe me when i say, that his entire family, including himself, were grateful for the time we had left with him....as painful as it was, to see him dwindle away and die...his last week of his life, he had no pain....none....amazing....he took no pain killers in the end...says he didn't need them....

anyway, you can leave the expensive hospital, you can refuse treatment if you know it is terminal, and still take the meds for pain....

And I realize that there may be exceptions that just seem so heartless to not let them "off" themselves, but this is not the general rule and we do not change laws and rules for "exceptions" to the general rule....

If they have only a few months to live, then live the few months till you croak...I don't think that is asking too much of you...in order to save your family, alot of grief and sorrow and asking themselves, "what if I had done this or done that, which could have stopped them?"

In addition to this, MONEY is the reason why I do NOT believe this should be legal....your relatives could agree to off you or convince you that you want to die, just so they could get your money and more of it, sooner....NOT a good thing imo!

No, assisted suicide is not something I would ever support....too dehumanizing to me, personally.

Care

 

[AllieBaba]

Try to stay on topic, Amanda. If your insults didnt work, and obviously they didnt - just stop. Being a keyboard warrior will not help you and you suck at it. If forum topics get you this worked up, might I suggest trying to find a new hobby? Its just a topic to be discussed. Thats all.

Jamie

Yes, and you're just the pro to eddicate her.

Try heading back over to the masturbation thread and posting a link, asshat.

 

[Missourian]

A person should not "need permission" to end their lives...it's theirs to do with what they wish.

Who are we to force them to continue.

Personal responsibility for personal choices.

But I don't think a life insurance policy should be forced to pay out on a suicides if their is a suicide clause. If your goal is to cash out, you better stick it out.

 

[The Illusion]

I don't know about "plenty" Care, but here is a situation that isn't exactly rare:

A guy is terminally ill and in need of constant professional care (and hardcore drugs) for the last 6 months of his life. During that time the healthcare bills keep piling and piling. So when he finally dies, what do you think happens to the life insurance payout that was intended to help his wife and children? You guess it, they only see what's left over, if anything, after all the creditors get paid. Had he been allowed to self-terminate, as it were, thereby avoiding those costly six months, he'd leave more for his family. Of course he can't do that because suicide voids his life insurance policy. Is that really fair?

he spoke of "plenty of people who were not sick", i thought or something of the sort? I will have to go back and check....?

and as far as your scenario...my father in law was such a case Mani, so he refused to continue with treatment in the hospital, they sent him home with pain killers, to die...with a Hospice person visiting the house every day, until he died, with his entire family around him, in the living room, on his recliner, 2 am in the morning.....at 6'4'' and 87lbs when he died.....believe me when i say, that his entire family, including himself, were grateful for the time we had left with him....as painful as it was, to see him dwindle away and die...his last week of his life, he had no pain....none....amazing....he took no pain killers in the end...says he didn't need them....

anyway, you can leave the expensive hospital, you can refuse treatment if you know it is terminal, and still take the meds for pain....

And I realize that there may be exceptions that just seem so heartless to not let them "off" themselves, but this is not the general rule and we do not change laws and rules for "exceptions" to the general rule....

If they have only a few months to live, then live the few months till you croak...I don't think that is asking too much of you...in order to save your family, alot of grief and sorrow and asking themselves, "what if I had done this or done that, which could have stopped them?"

In addition to this, MONEY is the reason why I do NOT believe this should be legal....your relatives could agree to off you or convince you that you want to die, just so they could get your money and more of it, sooner....NOT a good thing imo!

No, assisted suicide is not something I would ever support....too dehumanizing to me, personally.

Care

If this new healthcare plan goes through, doctors will be ordered to discuss the possible option for suicide with their elderly patients. Im searching for the link that I read in a part of that bill but I cant find it yet.. I hope to cite it when I find it.

Jamie

Edit: Heres a link to the information regarding the bill supporting euphanasia: http://www.lifenews.com/bio2896.html

 

[Care4all]

A person should not "need permission" to end their lives...it's theirs to do with what they wish.

Who are we to force them to continue.

Personal responsibility for personal choices.

But I don't think a life insurance policy should be forced to pay out on a suicides if their is a suicide clause. If your goal is to cash out, you better stick it out.

Obviously, if someone wants to take their own life they will.

That doesn't mean we have to be a part of it or give permission for it...it's their life, they can swallow a bottle of aspirin or jump off a bridge on their own....they do not need our government or ME, telling them it is A OK for them to do such....to kill.

I don't want to see them do such, I would rather make their life worth living again....or stick it out until they pass naturally.

anyone who attempts suicide but fails is truly not looking to kill themselves, they are looking for help.

 

[Care4all]

I don't know about "plenty" Care, but here is a situation that isn't exactly rare:

A guy is terminally ill and in need of constant professional care (and hardcore drugs) for the last 6 months of his life. During that time the healthcare bills keep piling and piling. So when he finally dies, what do you think happens to the life insurance payout that was intended to help his wife and children? You guess it, they only see what's left over, if anything, after all the creditors get paid. Had he been allowed to self-terminate, as it were, thereby avoiding those costly six months, he'd leave more for his family. Of course he can't do that because suicide voids his life insurance policy. Is that really fair?

he spoke of "plenty of people who were not sick", i thought or something of the sort? I will have to go back and check....?

and as far as your scenario...my father in law was such a case Mani, so he refused to continue with treatment in the hospital, they sent him home with pain killers, to die...with a Hospice person visiting the house every day, until he died, with his entire family around him, in the living room, on his recliner, 2 am in the morning.....at 6'4'' and 87lbs when he died.....believe me when i say, that his entire family, including himself, were grateful for the time we had left with him....as painful as it was, to see him dwindle away and die...his last week of his life, he had no pain....none....amazing....he took no pain killers in the end...says he didn't need them....

anyway, you can leave the expensive hospital, you can refuse treatment if you know it is terminal, and still take the meds for pain....

And I realize that there may be exceptions that just seem so heartless to not let them "off" themselves, but this is not the general rule and we do not change laws and rules for "exceptions" to the general rule....

If they have only a few months to live, then live the few months till you croak...I don't think that is asking too much of you...in order to save your family, alot of grief and sorrow and asking themselves, "what if I had done this or done that, which could have stopped them?"

In addition to this, MONEY is the reason why I do NOT believe this should be legal....your relatives could agree to off you or convince you that you want to die, just so they could get your money and more of it, sooner....NOT a good thing imo!

No, assisted suicide is not something I would ever support....too dehumanizing to me, personally.

Care

If this new healthcare plan goes through, doctors will be ordered to discuss the possible option for suicide with their elderly patients. Im searching for the link that I read in a part of that bill but I cant find it yet.. I hope to cite it when I find it.

Jamie

Edit: Heres a link to the information regarding the bill supporting euphanasia: http://www.lifenews.com/bio2896.html

that is the biggest crock of poopie!

The bill does not promote assisted suicide what so ever!

Jimminee Christmas almighty, discussing whether you want to be left on life support under certain circumstances is what a living will does and i recommend EVERYONE TO GET ONE if they don't want to be left with a scenario like Terry Schiavo, where there was not one and it ended up in the courts for over a decade...

That IS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE, assisted suicide or killing the elderly or anyone, this is not euthanasia? this is being in control of ones own destiny...getting a living will....or finding out ones choices for this type of situation when you are healthy and not on your death bed....and it is not even mandatory to discuss this with your doctor, this is an option that one can have to do such and this visit with your doctor will be paid for by insurance or the gvt option....that's how i understand it after reading it, if this is section 1233 of the bill?

btw, your link did not work for me?

care

 

[Missourian]

A person should not "need permission" to end their lives...it's theirs to do with what they wish.

Who are we to force them to continue.

Personal responsibility for personal choices.

But I don't think a life insurance policy should be forced to pay out on a suicides if their is a suicide clause. If your goal is to cash out, you better stick it out.

Obviously, if someone wants to take their own life they will.

That doesn't mean we have to be a part of it or give permission for it...it's their life, they can swallow a bottle of aspirin or jump off a bridge on their own....they do not need our government or ME, telling them it is A OK for them to do such....to kill.

I don't want to see them do such, I would rather make their life worth living again....or stick it out until they pass naturally.

anyone who attempts suicide but fails is truly not looking to kill themselves, they are looking for help.

They don't need you or the government to tell them it's OK...if they decide to kill themselves THEY have come to the decision it's OK on their own.

Neither you or I or the government has any business infringing on that decision.

I'm with you on when it comes to not wanting any life to come to a premature end, especially by suicide, but I see this as an individuals right to choose the course of ones own life, even if that course is set toward self termination.

P.S. - Have you noticed we have been on the opposite side of a lot of issues lately? Is that normal?

 

[AllieBaba]

A person should not "need permission" to end their lives...it's theirs to do with what they wish.

Who are we to force them to continue.

Personal responsibility for personal choices.

But I don't think a life insurance policy should be forced to pay out on a suicides if their is a suicide clause. If your goal is to cash out, you better stick it out.

Obviously, if someone wants to take their own life they will.

That doesn't mean we have to be a part of it or give permission for it...it's their life, they can swallow a bottle of aspirin or jump off a bridge on their own....they do not need our government or ME, telling them it is A OK for them to do such....to kill.

I don't want to see them do such, I would rather make their life worth living again....or stick it out until they pass naturally.

anyone who attempts suicide but fails is truly not looking to kill themselves, they are looking for help.

How many suicides have you worked with?

They are looking to kill themselves, and the #1 mistake people make in dealing with them is not taking them seriously when they fail the attempt.

 

[geauxtohell]

There are many injustices done to the people of this supposed "free" country. Suicide should be left to the individual. I dont think the government has a right to infringe on the rights of a person to terminate their own life so long as the person that is terminating their own life isnt infringing on the rights of others or making it messy or dangerous for people nearby. I dont think the government should have the authority to step in and make the person be incarcerated due to an act that they feel they would like to commit.

Jamie

These threads tend to turn nasty, so I haven't waded through this past the OP, therefore, I apologize if any of my points have already been made.

Oregon has had PAS for almost a decade now:

State of Oregon: Death With Dignity Act

In the past decade, 401 patients have utilized this option to end their lives.

I think that a patient who meets the criteria (has been deemed mentally competent and has a terminal disease that is going to result in a prolongued and painful death (note: not patients who are merely depressed)) should have the option to take their own lives in a humane way with the assistance of a physician.

It's not a procedure I'd ever want to be a part of, but I don't feel I have a right to force people to suffer simply because or my personal beliefs.

The central component should be a patients autonomy. That means they, and not the physician or state, make the decision.

Physicans (to include residents) should also be given the option of whether they want to participate in the procedure (since it is an emotional/moral issue).

 

[AllieBaba]

The Netherlands has it, too. And since they legalized it, it has morphed into an industry where post-birth abortions are legal, and non-consent "euthanasia" is a common, legal occurrence.

 

[Intense]

If one is determined, and competent, success is probable. What really sad-ens me about it is the concept, the sense of the loss of all hope. The influence of medications on state of mind might, suggest other factors, that should effect the definition.