Suffering Succotash

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Teachers could be paid more if we got rid of tenure and based their pay on the free market.

The free market is no solution for the teaching profession. There is no harm in granting tenure to teachers of good character and commitment to a particular school. Granting a degree of stability in the profession is fair.

Really? Because my cousin who got his Ph.D. from UCLA had to leave California and go back to South Korea to get paid a good teaching salary. If teachers want good pay, they have to get rid of these:

Just exactly how are teachers to blame for the incompetence of the NYC school administrators?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Anyone that gets a salary from taxpayer dollars should have a union.

No government workers should have unions, ever.

It's simply counterintuitive, and counterproductive.

You might want to reread your post. It contradicts itself.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Dangit, I typed "should" when I meant "shouldn't"

Unions are really no longer necessary in America, period.

There's enough labor laws and bureaus to insure workers get a fair shake.

This is 2017, not 1937.

Flanders, I am glad that's not the part you quoted.

So how does a labor law protect the teacher when the new principal takes over the school and just doesn't like you, so he fires you and brings in a buddy to take your job?

 

[Unkotare]

...
I do not share your distinction between a democracy and a republic.....

...?????????

 

[emilynghiem]

I do not share your distinction between a democracy and a republic.
You did not ask me originally to comment on "taxpayer input" when you asked for some examples of issues handled by union representatives and stewards in the normal course of an academic year. But I can assure you that teachers are taxpayers.

Dear Eloy but it is not an equal relationship. So it is not purely democratic.
The teachers may be taxpayers, but they are getting salaries and benefits through govt that other taxpayers are paying for who AREN'T GETTING THE SAME BENEFITS.

For this to be equal, all the other citizens paying taxes to run schools would have to be
on the same terms as the teachers, so we are all voting equally on what terms we
are paying for and getting COMMON BENEFITS.

Do you see the difference?

For health care, Congress and federal staff that get govt health care
get these benefits subsidized by OTHER taxpayers who chip in also
BUT DON'T GET THOSE SAME INSURANCE PLANS AND BENEFITS.

So it is NOT EQUAL. Does that help?

 

[Flanders]

This phrase sums up public school education for the poorest children:

It is the bigotry of low expectations.​

versus homeschooling:

Home-schooled kids are strikingly smarter, better educated, calmer, and better behaved. I also noticed that every home-schooled kid I spoke with looked me in the eye. They seemed happy with a subtle confidence.​

It is not because home-schoolers are inherently smarter. They are ahead because of the things the public schools cannot put in their heads. Basically, the war is between what is kept out —— and what is put in.

Aside from home-schooled kids escaping Socialist brainwashing, public school educators have been writing off the “wrong children” children for at least four generations. Why waste time teaching young children a solid foundation in the three R’s when they show no aptitude for Socialism/Communism at a very early age. It does not take a genius to distinguish the “right children” placed in an institutional setting beginning in the kindergarten.

It is not about race. The right black Americans are welcomed to collectivism with open arms while the wrong black Americans are abandoned alongside whites.

They will control and punish the heretics [It has already started with home schoolers] while they reward and pardon the faithful.

It follows that:

Leftist educators, using the iron fist of government, demand that parents turn over their kids that they might have their way with them. This is why leftists are hellbent on criminalizing home-schooling. Remarkably, in America, parents have been arrested for home schooling.​

March 16, 2017
Homeschooling: Restoring Parents' Right to Raise Their Children as God Intended
By Lloyd Marcus

Articles: Homeschooling: Restoring Parents' Right to Raise Their Children as God Intended​

NOTE: This travesty is still applied:

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled on November 2, 2005 that parents' fundamental right to control the upbringing of their children "does not extend beyond the threshold of the school door," and that a public school has the right to provide its students with "whatever information it wishes to provide, sexual or otherwise."​

Judicial Supremacists Lash Out at Parents -- December 2005 Phyllis Schlafly Report

 

[Unkotare]

Heavy on the hysterical hyperbole here, huh?

 

[ChrisL]

I don't think there is some vast conspiracy going on in the public school system. It's just that you are going to have your good teachers and your bad teachers. It's been that way since I was a kid. Believe me, the kids know when the teacher is a bit strange. Lol. I don't think the kids are ALL as easy to brainwash as you might think! Most kids I know don't really care much for school or teachers.

 

[Flanders]

I don't think there is some vast conspiracy going on in the public school system.

To ChrisL: Not a conspiracy, but a political agenda implemented by the ED and teachers’ unions officials.

It's just that you are going to have your good teachers and your bad teachers.

To ChrisL: Agree.

I don't think the kids are ALL as easy to brainwash as you might think!

To ChrisL: Not every kid to be sure, but a majority are susceptible when institutional brainwashing techniques is buttressed by peer pressure. I tried to express it in six words: A prison is every institution unmasked.

Note that the punish & reward method continues all the way through higher education.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

This phrase sums up public school education for the poorest children:

It is the bigotry of low expectations.​

versus homeschooling:

Home-schooled kids are strikingly smarter, better educated, calmer, and better behaved. I also noticed that every home-schooled kid I spoke with looked me in the eye. They seemed happy with a subtle confidence.​

It is not because home-schoolers are inherently smarter. They are ahead because of the things the public schools cannot put in their heads. Basically, the war is between what is kept out —— and what is put in.

Aside from home-schooled kids escaping Socialist brainwashing, public school educators have been writing off the “wrong children” children for at least four generations. Why waste time teaching young children a solid foundation in the three R’s when they show no aptitude for Socialism/Communism at a very early age. It does not take a genius to distinguish the “right children” placed in an institutional setting beginning in the kindergarten.

It is not about race. The right black Americans are welcomed to collectivism with open arms while the wrong black Americans are abandoned alongside whites.

They will control and punish the heretics [It has already started with home schoolers] while they reward and pardon the faithful.

It follows that:

Leftist educators, using the iron fist of government, demand that parents turn over their kids that they might have their way with them. This is why leftists are hellbent on criminalizing home-schooling. Remarkably, in America, parents have been arrested for home schooling.​

March 16, 2017
Homeschooling: Restoring Parents' Right to Raise Their Children as God Intended
By Lloyd Marcus

Articles: Homeschooling: Restoring Parents' Right to Raise Their Children as God Intended​

NOTE: This travesty is still applied:

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled on November 2, 2005 that parents' fundamental right to control the upbringing of their children "does not extend beyond the threshold of the school door," and that a public school has the right to provide its students with "whatever information it wishes to provide, sexual or otherwise."​

Judicial Supremacists Lash Out at Parents -- December 2005 Phyllis Schlafly Report

Wow! What a load of tripe!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I don't think there is some vast conspiracy going on in the public school system.

To ChrisL: Not a conspiracy, but a political agenda implemented by the ED and teachers’ unions officials.

It's just that you are going to have your good teachers and your bad teachers.

To ChrisL: Agree.

I don't think the kids are ALL as easy to brainwash as you might think!

To ChrisL: Not every kid to be sure, but a majority are susceptible when institutional brainwashing techniques is buttressed by peer pressure. I tried to express it in six words: A prison is every institution unmasked.

Note that the punish & reward method continues all the way through higher education.

Even more tripe? Do have a supplier that gets you a deep discount?

 

[Flanders]

Labor unions should never be allowed to negotiate pensions, holidays, sick days, working conditions, healthcare, or anything other than wages.

Look what they did with the comma:

Lack of Oxford Comma Could Cost Maine Company Millions in Overtime Dispute
By DANIEL VICTOR
MARCH 16, 2017

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/us/oxford-comma-lawsuit.html?_r=0​

I should have said anything except the basic wage.

 

[mgh80]

Not sure what teachers make nowadays, but historically it has not been a killing.

Californian between $80K and $200K a year. Retire after 20 years to have a taxpayer funded retirement for life. It's pretty cushy.

Teachers started being paid $38K in my district, make is $66K (I think I'm not there yet, but I started at the $38K).

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not sure what teachers make nowadays, but historically it has not been a killing.

Californian between $80K and $200K a year. Retire after 20 years to have a taxpayer funded retirement for life. It's pretty cushy.

Teachers started being paid $38K in my district, make is $66K (I think I'm not there yet, but I started at the $38K).

What state do you live in?

 

[mgh80]

Not sure what teachers make nowadays, but historically it has not been a killing.

Californian between $80K and $200K a year. Retire after 20 years to have a taxpayer funded retirement for life. It's pretty cushy.

Teachers started being paid $38K in my district, make is $66K (I think I'm not there yet, but I started at the $38K).

What state do you live in?

Florida.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not sure what teachers make nowadays, but historically it has not been a killing.

Californian between $80K and $200K a year. Retire after 20 years to have a taxpayer funded retirement for life. It's pretty cushy.

Teachers started being paid $38K in my district, make is $66K (I think I'm not there yet, but I started at the $38K).

What state do you live in?

Florida.

Got it. The CTA runs the Peoples Republic out here, wages are not consistent with reality.

 

[mgh80]

Not sure what teachers make nowadays, but historically it has not been a killing.

Californian between $80K and $200K a year. Retire after 20 years to have a taxpayer funded retirement for life. It's pretty cushy.

Teachers started being paid $38K in my district, make is $66K (I think I'm not there yet, but I started at the $38K).

What state do you live in?

Florida.

Got it. The CTA runs the Peoples Republic out here, wages are not consistent with reality.

While that might be true, and honestly I know that in some places teachers are overpaid...however the rhetoric that Americans parrot is ridiculous. Just last weekend I was at a bar with some friends and heard a guy ranting about how teachers in our district make six figures...so I corrected him and he called me a liar. I then told him that as a public/government employee our salaries are public so he looked them up and was shocked (because he had believed all the horse shit people had told him). While I have no issues with people who do their own research on the topic, I do see many (including some on here, but I'm not talking about you here), who just parrot what they here on a random person's blog or right-wing leaning website that has an agenda.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

While that might be true, and honestly I know that in some places teachers are overpaid...however the rhetoric that Americans parrot is ridiculous. Just last weekend I was at a bar with some friends and heard a guy ranting about how teachers in our district make six figures...so I corrected him and he called me a liar. I then told him that as a public/government employee our salaries are public so he looked them up and was shocked (because he had believed all the horse shit people had told him). While I have no issues with people who do their own research on the topic, I do see many (including some on here, but I'm not talking about you here), who just parrot what they here on a random person's blog or right-wing leaning website that has an agenda.

$38 seems pretty low, and is lower than the national average for starting pay.

Teacher Salary - Average Teacher Salaries | PayScale

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

[

While that might be true, and honestly I know that in some places teachers are overpaid...however the rhetoric that Americans parrot is ridiculous. Just last weekend I was at a bar with some friends and heard a guy ranting about how teachers in our district make six figures...so I corrected him and he called me a liar. I then told him that as a public/government employee our salaries are public so he looked them up and was shocked (because he had believed all the horse shit people had told him). While I have no issues with people who do their own research on the topic, I do see many (including some on here, but I'm not talking about you here), who just parrot what they here on a random person's blog or right-wing leaning website that has an agenda.

$38 seems pretty low, and is lower than the national average for starting pay.

Teacher Salary - Average Teacher Salaries | PayScale

In 2006, I left Florida as a 280-day a year assistant principal, because I only made $42 000 after 10 years. I took a job with the Department of Defense teaching a 196 day per year schedule for almost the exact same paycheck and they gave me only 5 years of service credit, and that was because I was prior military for nearly 12 years.

Florida teacher pay sucks ass!

 

[mgh80]

[

While that might be true, and honestly I know that in some places teachers are overpaid...however the rhetoric that Americans parrot is ridiculous. Just last weekend I was at a bar with some friends and heard a guy ranting about how teachers in our district make six figures...so I corrected him and he called me a liar. I then told him that as a public/government employee our salaries are public so he looked them up and was shocked (because he had believed all the horse shit people had told him). While I have no issues with people who do their own research on the topic, I do see many (including some on here, but I'm not talking about you here), who just parrot what they here on a random person's blog or right-wing leaning website that has an agenda.

$38 seems pretty low, and is lower than the national average for starting pay.

Teacher Salary - Average Teacher Salaries | PayScale

Some of the district pay around my area:

https://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/docs/00/00/06/82/Employee_Salary_Schedules.pdf

http://www.pasco.k12.fl.us/library/hr/INST_PlcmtSched_2015_16_1.pdf

https://www.polk-fl.net/staff/emplo...alarySchedules5-10-16Board5-23Ratif9p_000.pdf

http://www.edline.net/dynimg/_aZAAA...l+Placement+Schedule-Rev+Apr+2016+%281%29.pdf

There's 4 districts there ranging from $36K to $41K.

Again I am not complaining about how much I make-I know what I signed up for. I'm simply pointing out that a lot of the rhetoric of teachers making tons of money is bull crap.

PS: I don't have tenure and I've been teaching for years now (again not complaining-just stating a fact).