Success with stem cells

[FurthurBB]

I have been against embryonic stem cell research from the very beginning. It is too expensive with way too little results. In fact, to date, NO results.

The entire use of embryonic stem cell research is to support abortion and legitimize it. Logically and realistically embryonic stem cells have no other use.

So, I guess no one ever makes fertilized eggs that they do not use and get thrown away. Wow, it must be nice to be able to so thoroughly lie to yourself.

 

[FurthurBB]

Oka Adult or embryonic isn't the issue, a stem cell is still a stem cell, the difference is the quantity they can gain. Making stem cells from adults is very costly and extremely difficult, but a fetus has a lot that are already grown.

I do not believe that is true.

The only restrictions on the use of stem cell treatment has been on US federally funded research on new lines of stem cells. No one else in the world is so limmited and yet all themajor breakthroughs have been with adult stem cells, not embryonic stem cells. There is a reason for that.

Embryonic stem cells differentiate almost randomly and there are cases of them being used in an organ with the result that the embryonic stem cells grew into almost randomly different things, from teeth to hair to skin. Adult stem cells are multipotent, not pluripotent, and will adapt to the organ tissue that they are planted in and naturally do what the cells in that organ need it to do somehow.

Honestly, if they already died why waste their non-lives and just toss them in the garbage when you can at least make it mean something? Even pro-lifers should be for this since it give some meaning to the wasted life.

There is no such thing as innocent life that is wasted life. That is the root disagreement here that will never be overcome.

Human life is not just a blob of cells.

Human life is just a blob of cells like any other organism, we are not any more special just because we feel that we are. Also, no one is talking about a human life so this is just off topic.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Oka Adult or embryonic isn't the issue, a stem cell is still a stem cell, the difference is the quantity they can gain. Making stem cells from adults is very costly and extremely difficult, but a fetus has a lot that are already grown.

I do not believe that is true.

The only restrictions on the use of stem cell treatment has been on US federally funded research on new lines of stem cells. No one else in the world is so limmited and yet all themajor breakthroughs have been with adult stem cells, not embryonic stem cells. There is a reason for that.

Embryonic stem cells differentiate almost randomly and there are cases of them being used in an organ with the result that the embryonic stem cells grew into almost randomly different things, from teeth to hair to skin. Adult stem cells are multipotent, not pluripotent, and will adapt to the organ tissue that they are planted in and naturally do what the cells in that organ need it to do somehow.

Honestly, if they already died why waste their non-lives and just toss them in the garbage when you can at least make it mean something? Even pro-lifers should be for this since it give some meaning to the wasted life.

There is no such thing as innocent life that is wasted life. That is the root disagreement here that will never be overcome.

Human life is not just a blob of cells.

Human life is just a blob of cells like any other organism, we are not any more special just because we feel that we are.

No that is not true. Our behavior is not determined and we have mental aspects to our being that no other animal does, such as complex language and thought.

You have to lie to yourself in this manner in order to dodge the obvious rhetorical nonsense.

Also, no one is talking about a human life so this is just off topic.

If the cell is alive, and it is of the homo sapien species then it is by definition human life.

 

[Valerie]

Did you bother to read your own frigging article, you silly bitch, or did you just grab on to the fraudulent headline and run with it? From your article:

The teenager's therapy began Feb. 17 with a four-day regimen of a drug that stimulated the production of stem cells in his blood. On Feb. 21, doctors harvested Bonnville's stem cells. Using a heart catheter, they transplanted the stem cells into the artery that supplies blood to the front of the heart.

They used HIS OWN STEM CELLS. And since the guy in question was a teenager, I'm going to guess he wasn't an embryo, ergo they would not have been embryonic stem cells.

Sit down and have a nice cup of shut the hell up until you can say something intelligent.

Oh aren't you sweet... I won't be shutting up any time soon you crazy beeyatch.

Okay. Feel free to proudly display yourself as proof that the entire women's rights movement was a misguided waste of time. No skin off my nose if you like looking like an ignorant twat in public.

Meanwhile, is there any possibility you could start reading your own frigging links, or is that part of your all-important right to make a fool of yourself? Notice that I don't expect you to spend any time actually answering the points I made about your link, rather than brilliantly and incisively focusing on "You're mean!" like the whining, vaporish pre-Suffrage throwback you so clearly are. Just indicating that you can actually read would be nice.

And yet I CAN actually read... Can YOU...? I haven't made ANY claims about embryonic cells as there are NONE to make, you raving LUNATIC. The clinical trials were FINALLY just approved by the FDA a little over a year ago and if you understood about the scientific method you would realize that means there could be NO cases of successful TREATMENTS with embryonic stem cells YET. The POTENTIAL still exists no matter how much you rave and call me names. PLURIPOTENT stem cells have special properties which the research is still TRYING to hash out... For the overly emotional and mentally retarded, that means citing the FACT there aren't YET successful treatments to speak of, still remains essentially MEANINGLESS.

 

[Katzndogz]

China has had no more luck with embryonic stem cell research than we have. None. All of their success has followed ours, the success is with adult stem cells. China has gone us one better, because abortion is a government obligation, they are able to research using foetal bone marrow. The results still are not as impressive as with adult stem cells.

Stem cell research in China

The United States is not China. Our research funds comes from taxes. No scientist is compelled to experiment. We continue to waste millions of dollars on a failure instead of on what works because to do otherwise might have some tangenital effect on abortion.

 

[Katzndogz]

I have been against embryonic stem cell research from the very beginning. It is too expensive with way too little results. In fact, to date, NO results.

The entire use of embryonic stem cell research is to support abortion and legitimize it. Logically and realistically embryonic stem cells have no other use.

So, I guess no one ever makes fertilized eggs that they do not use and get thrown away. Wow, it must be nice to be able to so thoroughly lie to yourself.

This makes no sense whatsoever. The issue is not whether fertilized eggs would or should be thrown away. It's allocation of resources. Do we put resources on what works or on what doesn't work?

Is the tissue thin use of embryonic stem cells that important to abortion?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oka Adult or embryonic isn't the issue, a stem cell is still a stem cell, the difference is the quantity they can gain. Making stem cells from adults is very costly and extremely difficult, but a fetus has a lot that are already grown.

I do not believe that is true.

The only restrictions on the use of stem cell treatment has been on US federally funded research on new lines of stem cells. No one else in the world is so limmited and yet all themajor breakthroughs have been with adult stem cells, not embryonic stem cells. There is a reason for that.

Embryonic stem cells differentiate almost randomly and there are cases of them being used in an organ with the result that the embryonic stem cells grew into almost randomly different things, from teeth to hair to skin. Adult stem cells are multipotent, not pluripotent, and will adapt to the organ tissue that they are planted in and naturally do what the cells in that organ need it to do somehow.

Honestly, if they already died why waste their non-lives and just toss them in the garbage when you can at least make it mean something? Even pro-lifers should be for this since it give some meaning to the wasted life.

There is no such thing as innocent life that is wasted life. That is the root disagreement here that will never be overcome.

Human life is not just a blob of cells.

Human life is just a blob of cells like any other organism, we are not any more special just because we feel that we are. Also, no one is talking about a human life so this is just off topic.

We most certainly ARE talking about human life. A human embryo is a living human organism, same as you are.

And could you tell us, please, why we shouldn't be special to ourselves?

 

[Katzndogz]

In the case of whether research dollars should be spent on embryonic stem cells or adult (or even umbilical) stem cells whether human life is important or not only muddies up the discussion. The ONLY reason why embryonic stem cell research is continuing is because there is some tenuous support of abortion. Take that out of consideration and it isn't even close. All of the successes has come from use of adult stem cells. If abortion wasn't the be and end all, there wouldn't be any embryonic stem cell research going on. It would be too unprofitable.

 

[Immanuel]

Oka Adult or embryonic isn't the issue, a stem cell is still a stem cell, the difference is the quantity they can gain. Making stem cells from adults is very costly and extremely difficult, but a fetus has a lot that are already grown.

I do not believe that is true.

The only restrictions on the use of stem cell treatment has been on US federally funded research on new lines of stem cells. No one else in the world is so limmited and yet all themajor breakthroughs have been with adult stem cells, not embryonic stem cells. There is a reason for that.

Embryonic stem cells differentiate almost randomly and there are cases of them being used in an organ with the result that the embryonic stem cells grew into almost randomly different things, from teeth to hair to skin. Adult stem cells are multipotent, not pluripotent, and will adapt to the organ tissue that they are planted in and naturally do what the cells in that organ need it to do somehow.

Honestly, if they already died why waste their non-lives and just toss them in the garbage when you can at least make it mean something? Even pro-lifers should be for this since it give some meaning to the wasted life.

There is no such thing as innocent life that is wasted life. That is the root disagreement here that will never be overcome.

Human life is not just a blob of cells.

Human life is just a blob of cells like any other organism, we are not any more special just because we feel that we are. Also, no one is talking about a human life so this is just off topic.

About the only thing any one can say in response to this is "thank you for your opinion".

Immie

 

[alan1]

There have been numerous medical success's using adult stem cells for treatment.
Can anybody provide a link to show successful medical treatments that used embryonic or fetal stem cells?
I'm starting to think science should focus on what works.

Yeah, look up China stem cell, something like that. They have used a lot of embryonic stem cells to treat things successfully.

Thanks for the link.

Oh wait, you didn't provide one.

 

[Old Rocks]

Science, like anything else, should pay its own freight.

If stem cells, embryonic or otherwise, are the supposed miracle cure for anything and everything, then investors who smell a profit will provide the proper capitalization for research.

You can always tell where the REAL potential is by where the private venture capital is. If a line of research MUST have government funding to even exist, it's a waste of time.

Really? And which of the early capitalists funded the Corps of Discovery?

 

[alan1]

Science, like anything else, should pay its own freight.

If stem cells, embryonic or otherwise, are the supposed miracle cure for anything and everything, then investors who smell a profit will provide the proper capitalization for research.

You can always tell where the REAL potential is by where the private venture capital is. If a line of research MUST have government funding to even exist, it's a waste of time.

Really? And which of the early capitalists funded the Corps of Discovery?

Thomas Jefferson.

The Corps of Discovery was not a benevolent mission. Welcomed notions quickly turned to unexpected surprise of betrayal. Upon meeting a tribe for the first time, captains of the expedition informed tribal leaders their land now belonged to the United States government and their “new great father” was President Thomas Jefferson. The Lewis and Clark Expedition was the trickle that started the flood of subjugation.

The Native Americans lost on several fronts: land, resources, culture, language, and sovereignty. According to Gerard Baker, a full-blooded Mandan-Hidatsa from Mandaree, North Dakota, the Lewis and Clark Expedition was the beginning of the end. “In a nutshell, what happened to our people in the years after Lewis and Clark is that we went downhill, we lost.”

Go figure that somebody got screwed when the government was involved.

Got any successful treatments with fetal or embryonic stem cell research that you want to share?

 

[FurthurBB]

I do not believe that is true.

The only restrictions on the use of stem cell treatment has been on US federally funded research on new lines of stem cells. No one else in the world is so limmited and yet all themajor breakthroughs have been with adult stem cells, not embryonic stem cells. There is a reason for that.

Embryonic stem cells differentiate almost randomly and there are cases of them being used in an organ with the result that the embryonic stem cells grew into almost randomly different things, from teeth to hair to skin. Adult stem cells are multipotent, not pluripotent, and will adapt to the organ tissue that they are planted in and naturally do what the cells in that organ need it to do somehow.



There is no such thing as innocent life that is wasted life. That is the root disagreement here that will never be overcome.

Human life is not just a blob of cells.

Human life is just a blob of cells like any other organism, we are not any more special just because we feel that we are.

No that is not true. Our behavior is not determined and we have mental aspects to our being that no other animal does, such as complex language and thought.

You have to lie to yourself in this manner in order to dodge the obvious rhetorical nonsense.

Also, no one is talking about a human life so this is just off topic.

If the cell is alive, and it is of the homo sapien species then it is by definition human life.

Again with the lying to yourself. It is okay, I understand why you feel the need. Oh, and as far as your second statement, then stop treating cancer because those are living human cells.

 

[FurthurBB]

I have been against embryonic stem cell research from the very beginning. It is too expensive with way too little results. In fact, to date, NO results.

The entire use of embryonic stem cell research is to support abortion and legitimize it. Logically and realistically embryonic stem cells have no other use.

So, I guess no one ever makes fertilized eggs that they do not use and get thrown away. Wow, it must be nice to be able to so thoroughly lie to yourself.

This makes no sense whatsoever. The issue is not whether fertilized eggs would or should be thrown away. It's allocation of resources. Do we put resources on what works or on what doesn't work?

Is the tissue thin use of embryonic stem cells that important to abortion?

What are you talking about? Are you lost?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Human life is just a blob of cells like any other organism, we are not any more special just because we feel that we are.

No that is not true. Our behavior is not determined and we have mental aspects to our being that no other animal does, such as complex language and thought.

You have to lie to yourself in this manner in order to dodge the obvious rhetorical nonsense.

Also, no one is talking about a human life so this is just off topic.

If the cell is alive, and it is of the homo sapien species then it is by definition human life.

Again with the lying to yourself. It is okay, I understand why you feel the need. Oh, and as far as your second statement, then stop treating cancer because those are living human cells.

Again with the "I was jacking off behind the gym during biology class". It's amazing - and not at all coincidental - how many liberals are ALSO uneducated and scientifically illterate.

Get a biology textbook, get someone to read it to you, and then have that person turn to the section where they explain the difference between "cells, tissues, organs, and organisms", you fucking retard.

Until then, you're done here, because you've just proven that you have less to say scientifically than my three-year-old does. (He knows as much as you do, but he's cuter.)

 

[JimBowie1958]

Human life is just a blob of cells like any other organism, we are not any more special just because we feel that we are.

No that is not true. Our behavior is not determined and we have mental aspects to our being that no other animal does, such as complex language and thought.

You have to lie to yourself in this manner in order to dodge the obvious rhetorical nonsense.

Also, no one is talking about a human life so this is just off topic.

If the cell is alive, and it is of the homo sapien species then it is by definition human life.

Again with the lying to yourself. It is okay, I understand why you feel the need.

Well, perhaps you can also feel the need to show where I had lied.

Oh, and as far as your second statement, then stop treating cancer because those are living human cells.

You cannot distinguish the qualitative difference between a cancer cell and a human embryo?

Seriously?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Again with the "I was jacking off behind the gym during biology class". It's amazing - and not at all coincidental - how many liberals are ALSO uneducated and scientifically illterate.

Get a biology textbook, get someone to read it to you, and then have that person turn to the section where they explain the difference between "cells, tissues, organs, and organisms", you fucking retard.

Until then, you're done here, because you've just proven that you have less to say scientifically than my three-year-old does. (He knows as much as you do, but he's cuter.)

I know.

It's incredible, isnt it?

I mean, to think someone really thinks this kind of 'defence via pretence of stupidity' just boggles the mind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Again with the "I was jacking off behind the gym during biology class". It's amazing - and not at all coincidental - how many liberals are ALSO uneducated and scientifically illterate.

Get a biology textbook, get someone to read it to you, and then have that person turn to the section where they explain the difference between "cells, tissues, organs, and organisms", you fucking retard.

Until then, you're done here, because you've just proven that you have less to say scientifically than my three-year-old does. (He knows as much as you do, but he's cuter.)

I know.

It's incredible, isnt it?

I mean, to think someone really thinks this kind of 'defence via pretence of stupidity' just boggles the mind.

It boggles my mind that they seriously think reality and public policy should be determined by THEIR lack of education and information. A fetus should be adjudged as "not a person" merely because he does not look like what they think of as a person, aka an adult human being.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Again with the "I was jacking off behind the gym during biology class". It's amazing - and not at all coincidental - how many liberals are ALSO uneducated and scientifically illterate.

Get a biology textbook, get someone to read it to you, and then have that person turn to the section where they explain the difference between "cells, tissues, organs, and organisms", you fucking retard.

Until then, you're done here, because you've just proven that you have less to say scientifically than my three-year-old does. (He knows as much as you do, but he's cuter.)

I know.

It's incredible, isnt it?

I mean, to think someone really thinks this kind of 'defence via pretence of stupidity' just boggles the mind.

It boggles my mind that they seriously think reality and public policy should be determined by THEIR lack of education and information. A fetus should be adjudged as "not a person" merely because he does not look like what they think of as a person, aka an adult human being.

Agreed.

It's the same old prejudice of 'It's not familiar to me, nor what I can empathize with, so it must not be human.' And that's not much different than the thinking of every ideological thug and murderer from Kemal Attaturk, to Adolph Hitler, to Stalin and Mao to Pol Pot.

It is a dangerous thing to dehumanize other people because the same logic can undermine how others see you and your kind as well.

 

[Immanuel]

I know.

It's incredible, isnt it?

I mean, to think someone really thinks this kind of 'defence via pretence of stupidity' just boggles the mind.

It boggles my mind that they seriously think reality and public policy should be determined by THEIR lack of education and information. A fetus should be adjudged as "not a person" merely because he does not look like what they think of as a person, aka an adult human being.

Agreed.

It's the same old prejudice of 'It's not familiar to me, nor what I can empathize with, so it must not be human.' And that's not much different than the thinking of every ideological thug and murderer from Kemal Attaturk, to Adolph Hitler, to Stalin and Mao to Pol Pot.

It is a dangerous thing to dehumanize other people because the same logic can undermine how others see you and your kind as well.

tsk tsk Did you just compare liberals to Adolph Hitler? Don't you know that is politically incorrect and can get you demonized as a right wing troll for life, or at least your life here on the board? It is only permissible to compare right wingers to Hitler because when you compare a liberal to Hitler you are being intolerant. Comparing a right winger to Hitler is displaying liberal thinking and is perfectly acceptable.

Get with the picture, buddy.

Immie