STAND YOUR GROUND, conflicts?

[OODA_Loop]

A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com

In this case, a Judge made the decision, and in Zimmerman's case the Sanford police so "ruled". What is the difference?

Not lawful for a teen to posses a firearm.

Without his parents' permission.

You are way out of your depth.

 

[Peach]

Not lawful for a teen to posses a firearm.

Without his parents' permission.

You are way out of your depth.

Chapter 790, and yes it requires adult supervision actually. Unless the firearm is for hunting, and the teenager is 16 or older. But Seay was not charged with unlawful possession, he was charged with 2nd degree murder.

 

[Defiant1]

A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com

In this case, a Judge made the decision, and in Zimmerman's case the Sanford police so "ruled". What is the difference?

Not lawful for a teen to posses a firearm.

Without his parents' permission. Alcoholics, drug addicts, the mentally incapacitated and felons are also barred. That brings up the question as to why Zimmerman wasn't alcohol or drugs.

Did you read the law cited in your link?

Do you really not understand our law or are you being deliberately obtuse?

SYG cannot be applied in the Jacksonville case because the teen was committing an illegal activity. He was not of age and thus did not have a CCL.

 

[Peach]

Not lawful for a teen to posses a firearm.

Without his parents' permission. Alcoholics, drug addicts, the mentally incapacitated and felons are also barred. That brings up the question as to why Zimmerman wasn't alcohol or drugs.

Did you read the law cited in your link?

Do you really not understand our law or are you being deliberately obtuse?

SYG cannot be applied in the Jacksonville case because the teen was committing an illegal activity. He was not of age and thus did not have a CCL.

And self defense without STAND YOUR GROUND? A few months make the difference between no charges and 2nd degree murder? NOT RATIONAL.

 

[Emma]

Not lawful for a teen to posses a firearm.

Without his parents' permission.

You are way out of your depth.

They can :

790.17 Furnishing weapons to minors under 18 years of age or persons of unsound mind and furnishing firearms to minors under 18 years of age prohibited.—(1) A person who sells, hires, barters, lends, transfers, or gives any minor under 18 years of age any dirk, electric weapon or device, or other weapon, other than an ordinary pocketknife, without permission of the minor’s parent or guardian, or sells, hires, barters, lends, transfers, or gives to any person of unsound mind an electric weapon or device or any dangerous weapon, other than an ordinary pocketknife, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2)(a) A person may not knowingly or willfully sell or transfer a firearm to a minor under 18 years of age, except that a person may transfer ownership of a firearm to a minor with permission of the parent or guardian. A person who violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) The parent or guardian must maintain possession of the firearm except pursuant to s. 790.22.

BUT:

(3) A minor under 18 years of age may not possess a firearm, other than an unloaded firearm at his or her home, unless:

(a) The minor is engaged in a lawful hunting activity and is:1. At least 16 years of age; or
2. Under 16 years of age and supervised by an adult.

(b) The minor is engaged in a lawful marksmanship competition or practice or other lawful recreational shooting activity and is:1. At least 16 years of age; or
2. Under 16 years of age and supervised by an adult who is acting with the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian.

(c) The firearm is unloaded and is being transported by the minor directly to or from an event authorized in paragraph (a) or paragraph (b).

790.22 - Use of BB guns, air or gas-operated guns, or electric weapons or devices by minor under 16 limitation possession of firearms by minor under 18 prohibited penalties. - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

 

[Peach]

Teen broke the law. Went to court.

Zman didnt break the law says the evidence, witnesses and review of the same by the law.

So it comes down to simple self defense, not STAND YOUR GROUND; that I can accept, even if I disagree.

Teen could claim SYG with a baseball bat for example.

Read the article; Judge Soud is NOT quoted as mentioning AGE. He went to the scene, described his decision as RAZOR-CLOSE. The defense goes on to say self defense is usually for a jury, rarely from a Judge's ruling. No mention of police making that legal decision.

 

[Emma]

Would an emancipated minor have the right to possess a firearm as an adult? (not referring to this case in particular, just a general question)

 

[Defiant1]

Without his parents' permission. Alcoholics, drug addicts, the mentally incapacitated and felons are also barred. That brings up the question as to why Zimmerman wasn't alcohol or drugs.

Did you read the law cited in your link?

Do you really not understand our law or are you being deliberately obtuse?

SYG cannot be applied in the Jacksonville case because the teen was committing an illegal activity. He was not of age and thus did not have a CCL.

And self defense without STAND YOUR GROUND? A few months make the difference between no charges and 2nd degree murder? NOT RATIONAL.

Zimmerman had a CCL, was not committing any illegal activity, was in a place he had a right to be.

 

[Peach]

Would an emancipated minor have the right to possess a firearm as an adult? (not referring to this case in particular, just a general question)

Case law would clarify that; Soud did not mention age, in the quoted sections, and said his decision was RAZOR-CLOSE.

 

[Katzndogz]

the one time i elected to stand my ground.....i would have killed an unarmed man....but at that point it was about the safety of myself and my child....i decided when i would kill and i stuck to it....i am thankful the bedroom door never opened. would i have been wrong to kill an unarmed man? nc says i am not.

Me too! The guy was trying to kick my door in when I flashed snuffy which was all it took for him to go. I would have CHEERFULLY blown his head off. He wasn't armed because he did not believe he needed to be armed. I was assumed to be easy pickings. He was wrong.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com

In this case, a Judge made the decision, and in Zimmerman's case the Sanford police so "ruled". What is the difference?

Great link, provides much food for thought. Sadly, 'thought' is alien to too many on this issue.

 

[old navy]

the one time i elected to stand my ground.....i would have killed an unarmed man....but at that point it was about the safety of myself and my child....i decided when i would kill and i stuck to it....i am thankful the bedroom door never opened. would i have been wrong to kill an unarmed man? nc says i am not.

Forceful entry ?

DRT = Dead Right There.

yep, send the SOB to hell.

The Castle Doctrine keeps getting shot down (pardon the pun) in Virginia. This of course has brought about great disagreement among the stakeholders. One argument against this law and similar ones such as SYG, is previous case law. The precedents state that we can protect ourselves without passing another law. I agree with this due to the ambiguity of said laws and the way they are applied. In Virginia if I fear for my or my family's life, I can use deadly force. There will probably be a process due according to the law, but when things shake out and if I was in the right, I will be a free man.

 

[Emma]

well there ya go

(6) The court shall consider the petition and receive such evidence as it deems necessary to rule on the petition. If the court determines that removal of the disabilities of nonage is in the minor's best interest, it shall enter an order to that effect. An order removing the disabilities of nonage shall have the effect of giving the minor the status of an adult for purposes of all criminal and civil laws of the state, and shall authorize the minor thereafter to exercise all of the rights and responsibilities of persons who are 18 years of age or older.



(7) The court shall consider the petition and, if satisfied that the removal of the disabilities is in the minor's best interest, shall remove the disabilities of nonage; and shall authorize the minor to perform all acts that the minor could do if he or she were 18 years of age.



Florida Laws: FL Statutes - Title XLIII Domestic Relations Section 743.01 Removal of disabilities of married minors. - Florida Attorney Resources - Florida Laws

 

[Peach]

Not lawful for a teen to posses a firearm.

Without his parents' permission. Alcoholics, drug addicts, the mentally incapacitated and felons are also barred. That brings up the question as to why Zimmerman wasn't alcohol or drugs.

Did you read the law cited in your link?

Do you really not understand our law or are you being deliberately obtuse?

SYG cannot be applied in the Jacksonville case because the teen was committing an illegal activity. He was not of age and thus did not have a CCL.

The Judge is quoted as saying the decision was RAZOR-CLOSE, no mention of age. I asked a QUESTION, did not draw a conclusion. NOTE ? by the thread.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

In the end, if Zimmerman tries to use this defense in a trial, or just gets a pass, and is never indicted, there is going to be a lot of interest in this law. And the injustice that it creates.

Thank you Old Rocks; the fact that one case was decided by a Judge, the other by police raises questions in my mind.

Is it true that the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman?
Is it true the State Attorney dropped the charges because there wasn't enough evidence?
If you answer yes then you are comparing apples to oranges.
If you answer no then you have already condemned a person even without knowing all the facts and giving him the benefit of a fair trail.

 

[Peach]

In the end, if Zimmerman tries to use this defense in a trial, or just gets a pass, and is never indicted, there is going to be a lot of interest in this law. And the injustice that it creates.

Thank you Old Rocks; the fact that one case was decided by a Judge, the other by police raises questions in my mind.

Is it true that the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman?
Is it true the State Attorney dropped the charges because there wasn't enough evidence?
If you answer yes then you are comparing apples to oranges.
If you answer no then you have already condemned a person even without knowing all the facts and giving him the benefit of a fair trail.

Good questions.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Thank you Old Rocks; the fact that one case was decided by a Judge, the other by police raises questions in my mind.

Is it true that the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman?
Is it true the State Attorney dropped the charges because there wasn't enough evidence?
If you answer yes then you are comparing apples to oranges.
If you answer no then you have already condemned a person even without knowing all the facts and giving him the benefit of a fair trail.

Good questions.

It's questions such as that which are continually asked but never answered.

 

[Peach]

Is it true that the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman?
Is it true the State Attorney dropped the charges because there wasn't enough evidence?
If you answer yes then you are comparing apples to oranges.
If you answer no then you have already condemned a person even without knowing all the facts and giving him the benefit of a fair trail.

Good questions.

It's questions such as that which are continually asked but never answered.

The Special Prosecutor will by her decision, or the Grand Jury, if it goes forward.

 

[Wry Catcher]

the one time i elected to stand my ground.....i would have killed an unarmed man....but at that point it was about the safety of myself and my child....i decided when i would kill and i stuck to it....i am thankful the bedroom door never opened. would i have been wrong to kill an unarmed man? nc says i am not.

Forceful entry ?

DRT = Dead Right There.

Years ago my wife, two sons and me were in a motel room when the door opened at 2:00 AM. I heard it and saw the light and had the man by the throat and against the far hall wall before he was able to enter the room.

Once I had him controlled in a figure four I determined he was drunk, had been given the electronic key to our room by mistake and had no intent to do harm to my family. The poor guy was scared to death and kept saying, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, don't hurt me".

The question: Did I have the right to shoot and kill this man under the stand your ground concept?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Good questions.

It's questions such as that which are continually asked but never answered.

The Special Prosecutor will by her decision, or the Grand Jury, if it goes forward.

OK it moves forward but unless their is some evidence that has not been released I don't see a conviction. Man hours time and money wasted on a media racially charged shooting which appears to have been a case for self defense