someone please tell me

[dmp]

A couple were. The vast majority there now are from europe, an argument some of you zionists are making now to include Israel in the "The Western World". You can't have it both ways.

A couple? No - the VAST majority were already there when the country was set up by the UN. In fact, Policy was inacted which PREVENTED Mass-migrations to that land, from European Jews.

 

[theHawk]

Take a look to the UN Charta of 1945 : a State can't attack an other country (article 2§4).
There are exceptions : if the Security Council allows this State (Iraq 1990-91), or if there is legitim defense : article 51. But the article 51, here, can't play (look at it, you'll see).

But don't believe I support Hezbollah, they're fucking terrorists. But Israel could have sent the Mossad to catch Hezbollah's leaders.

Did the UN hold democratic elections in 1945-47 in area now known as Israel and ask the people living there if they would like the existance of a Jewish state there?


Hey, I want my own country too. If I pander to the UN enough and get them to create me my own country called Hawkistan I'm sure you won't mind if I pick the French coast. If the UN says so, you must comply, otherwise your an anti-hawkite.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

A couple? No - the VAST majority were already there when the country was set up by the UN. In fact, Policy was inacted which PREVENTED Mass-migrations to that land, from European Jews.

You're on smack. Read this page and get back to me.


http://www.israel.org/mfa/history/modern history/centenary of zionism/aliya and absorption

 

[dmp]

You're on smack. Read this page and get back to me.


http://www.israel.org/mfa/history/modern history/centenary of zionism/aliya and absorption

No - I'm correct.

Great Britain recognized the rights of the Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine". Yet they greatly curtailed entry of Jewish refugees into Israel even after World War II. They split Palestine mandate into an Arab state which has become the modern day Jordan, and Israel.

 

[Said1]

So a global vote was taken?

The UN owned israel and it was theirs to give away?

Wow.

So, theoretically, if a majority of the world beleived new england should be given to canada, that would make it right?

We don't want New England, we want the west coast.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No - I'm correct.

Actually you're wrong on both counts. There has been massivie immigration into israel before and after the establishment of israel.

 

[dmp]

Actually you're wrong on both counts. There has been massivie immigration into israel before and after the establishment of israel.

Both of what counts?

 

[Said1]

Immigration (Tables 11 and 13)
In all of the variants, it was assumed that there would be a gradual decline in the number
of immigrants to Israel. This assumption is based on immigration figures from the end of
the 1990s and the beginning of the 21st century. These data reveal a clear and significant
downward trend in immigration from the (former) USSR, which was the absolute majority
of the immigrant population throughout the 1990s. This trend can be attributed to the
substantial decline in the supply of potential immigrants from those countries. Therefore, in
all of the variants it was assumed that the number of immigrants from the (former) USSR
would decline, albeit at different rates according to the variants.
The flow of immigrants from other countries (mainly Europe and America) remained more
or less stable throughout this period. In the high variant, it was assumed that the number
21
of immigrants from “other countries” would remain stable throughout the projection period,
i.e., about 10 thousand per year, continuing the trend of stability that has persisted over at
least the last 15 years. In the medium and low variants, it was assumed that there would
be a gradual decline in the number of immigrants from “other countries”.
The calculation of assumptions regarding immigration also included the component of
immigrant citizens10, because their number has become more substantial than in the past
(about 3 thousand per year). For all of the variants, it was assumed that this level would
remain constant throughout the projection period.
In addition to these components, the immigration also includes persons who arrived in
Israel under the “family unification” law. This component has become relevant among the
population of “Jews and Others” following the influx of immigrants from the (former) USSR
and from Ethiopia in the 1990s. After these immigrants arrived, many of their non-Jewish
family members arrived. At the end of the 1990s, the number of immigrants who arrived
under this law amounted to about 2.5-3.0 thousand per year. For all of the variants, the
assumption was that the number of persons who enter Israel under the family unification
law would decline, albeit at different rates for each variant, as a result of the anticipated
continuation of the decline in immigration from the (former) USSR.
In each of the variants, it was assumed that throughout the projection period the
composition of immigrants by age and sex would remain constant, as in 1996-2000.
Data from recent years reveal a decline in the percentage of Jews among the immigrants
to Israel. Between 1990 and 1995, Jews were 94% of the immigrant population, whereas
between 1996 and 2000, the percentage of Jewish immigrants declined significantly to
65% (those remaining immigrants were either Christian or not classified by religion). This
decline can be attributed to a growing percentage of immigrants who arrived in Israel
under the Law of Return or with Jewish spouses. Most of these immigrants were from the
(former) USSR, although a few were from Ethiopia.
This trend notwithstanding, the projection assumption for all of the variants was that the
percentage of Jews among the immigrants would rise, because it was expected that the
number of immigrants from the (former) USSR would drop.

http://www.cbs.gov.il/publications/popul2005/pdf/e-mavo.pdf


Link to tables: Projections of Israel's Population Unil 2005: http://www.cbs.gov.il/publications/popul2005/popul2005_e.htm

 

[Said1]

historical demographical data, per district: http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populstat/Asia/israelp.htm


I demographics.

 

[dilloduck]

israel was granted their country in 47 by the un and the majority of the world

on that day israel citizens were killed

for 70 years israel citizens have been killed

tell me what would be your response 70 years later

what would your response be if your neighbor fucked with you for 70 years and the police did nothing and the local paper said that you were the criminal

Honestly, I would move.

 

[jillian]

the un simply granted it to them...there was no war....the war came later....no country "owns" their land they simply occupy it and defend it ..... israel is good at defending the land they were given....

I meant spoils of WWII... the arabs backed the wrong side.

And I know Israel is good at defending itself. If you've ever stood in the Syrian bunkers in the Golan Heights, the magnitude of what they had to do appears pretty staggering.

 

[jillian]

Honestly, I would move.

To where? Germany? France?

 

[dilloduck]

To where? Germany? France?

Don't know ---never been to either one of em either.

 

[Said1]

So no one thought my demographics were interesting? Well, let me give you all a wwwwwwarm Canadian fuck you then.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So no one thought my demographics were interesting? Well, let me give you all a wwwwwwarm Canadian fuck you then.

I was looking for a summary statement. WHo is more right? Me or darin?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

To where? Germany? France?

Would you say jews have been received more warmly in the U.S.

They can come here and they know it. Their religious fanatic nationalism is leading the world into war.

 

[roomy]

Would you say jews have been received more warmly in the U.S.

They can come here and they know it. Their religious fanatic nationalism is leading the world into war.

I am more concerned with fundamentalist christians.

 

[dilloduck]

I was looking for a summary statement. WHo is more right? Me or darin?

All I could find was that there were more Arabs than Jews in Palestine when the UN made the mandate-1/3 jews 2/3s Arabs.

 

[dilloduck]

All I could find was that there were more Arabs than Jews in Palestine when the UN made the mandate-1/3 jews 2/3s Arabs.

Aliyah Bet - Illegal immigration, also called Ha'apalah, conducted at the initiative of immigrant groups in Europe, the Jewish Agency and in some cases with the help of the United States and even the Nazis. In Palestine, Aliya Bet was organized beginning in 1939 by the "Mossad l'Aliya Bet" to bring immigrants to mandatory Palestine after immigration was restricted by the British White Paper of 1939.

Illegal immigration began on January 12, 1938, when the "Poseidon" brought 65 illegal immigrants who disembarked at Avihayil. At this time, the Jewish Agency operations were under the command of the Halutz department. Up to 1938, about 8,000 Jewish immigrants had entered Palestine illegally, to circumvent quotas that were already in effect under British emergency regulations before the White Paper of 1939.

Illegal immigration was organized by the "Mossad l'Aliya Bet" between 1939 and 1942, when a tightened British blockade and stricter controls in occupied Europe made it all but impossible, and again between 1945 and 1948. Even in the interim years, and especially in 1944, there were significant illegal immigration attempts.

It is a misconception to assume that the immigration was an initiative of the Zionist movement only, and it is certainly incorrect to say that the Zionist movement deliberately chartered bad ships to bring Jews to Palestine in unsafe conditions, when they could have been safe in Europe.

European Jews were desperate for ways to leave Europe, but for the most part there were few options. No country was willing to take Jewish immigrants. However, some countries would give them transit visas. In particular, Romania was an Axis ally, but had a relatively lenient policy toward Jews, and a bribable officialdom, until it was actually invaded by the Germans. Romanian Jews and those from all over Europe who could escape gathered in Black Sea ports of their own accord, and different agencies, including profiteers, offered transportation in overcrowded death traps to Istanbul. From there, it would presumably be possible to get to Palestine. The Jewish Agency could not stop this immigration, they could only facilitate it. This is how the Romanian illegal immigration is described by one source:

Before World War II, Romania's Jewish population was about 900,000. About half-a-million Jews perished in Romania during the war, some of them under the German occupation and in the territories ceded to Bulgaria and to the Soviet Union. Some of them were deported to Nazi death camps, but a large majority died in the pogroms organized by the State and the militia.

However, the persecution of the Jews in Romania began long before the war. Under the oppression of the Romanian Iron Guards (the equivalent of the German SS) the Jews began fleeing the country from the port of Constanza to Palestine in 1938. An Associated Press dispatch dated March 2, 1939 described the city of Constanza as a huge refugee camp with thousands of Palestine-bound Jews forming lines in front of travel agencies that sold tickets for fly-by-night shipping companies. This inaugurated an era of the so-called "coffin ships" as all the vessels chartered for this purpose were rickety, unseaworthy boats devoid of amenities, crammed 5 to 10 times their normal capacities, and their destination was, in most cases, fatal.

The Mossad L'Aliyah Bet was active in Romania too. The rickety, overcrowded, ancient boats full of refugees tried to reach Palestine. Many of the ships sank or were caught by the British or the Nazis and turned back, or shipped to Mauritius or other destinations for internment.

On May 28, 1939, the Haganah ship Atrato was captured by the British navy. At the time it had already brought 2,400 immigrants into Palestine in 7 trips. On August 22 the Betar (revisionist) ship "Parita" with 856 passengers arrived and successfully disembarked many of its passengers. About September 1, the Haganah's "Tiger Hill" likewise brought over 1,400 passengers. Each ship was greeted by a crowd of thousands, enabling many of the immigrants to lose themselves in the crowd. World War II had now started. Up to the beginning of the war, illegal immigration had rescued about 21,000 European Jews.

On January 23 and February 13, 1940, the British apprehended the ships Hilda and Sakaria and arrested and interned the immigrants.

In November, the British intercepted three ships sailing in convoy,: the Pacific, the Atlantic and the Milos, and transferred the passengers to the Patria, a captured French liner. To prevent the internment of the immigrants outside Palestine, the Haganah placed a small explosive charge on the ship on November 25, 1940. They thought the charge would damage the engines. Instead, the ship sank, and 252 lives were lost. A few weeks later, the SS Bulgaria docked in Haifa with 350 Jewish refugees and was ordered to return to Bulgaria. The Bulgaria capsized in the Turkish straits, killing 280.

The Salvador, another refugee ship out of Romania, sank in early December of 1940. According to one version of events, it went down in a storm. According to another version, it may have been torpedoed. Over 5,000 illegal immigrants entered Palestine in 1940, many more were caught and interned for the duration of the war.

During all of 1941, only about 4,000 Jews managed to enter Palestine. The Struma, a vessel that had left Constanta in Rumania with 769 refugees, got to Istanbul on December 16, 1941. There, it was forced to undergo repairs of its engine and leaking hull. The Turks would not grant the refugees sanctuary. The British would not approve transshipment to Mauritius or entry to Palestine. On February 24, 1942, the Turks ordered the Struma out of the harbor. It sank with the loss of 428 men, 269 women and 70 children. Apparently, it had been torpedoed by a Soviet submarine, either because it was mistaken for a Nazi ship, or more likely, because the Soviets had agreed to collaborate with the British in barring Jewish immigration. At this point, the Mossad l'Aliyah Bet apparently stopped its efforts. However, the illegal immigration efforts continued, including "private initiatives" and one by the US. Sometimes they met with success, and often they ended in internment or tragic failure. In early 1944, US President Roosevelt apparently authorized a cloak and dagger mission to rescue 50,000 Jews from Southern Europe. In fact, somewhat under 3,000 Jews in 8 ships under Turkish registry were rescued in this way, mostly from Romania. (see http://www.alpas.net/uli/struma/Ziarulturc.htm and www.jewishgen.org/romsig/New/Strumah.html ). The ships docked in Istanbul, and the Turks provided rail passage to Syria. On August 5, 1944, however, the Mefkure, carrying 316 passengers and crew, and flying both a Turkish flag and a Red Cross banner, was torpedoed by Soviet submarine SC-215, in the Black Sea. Survivors were machine gunned while trying to escape.

Despite these setbacks, tens of thousands of Jews were saved by the illegal immigration.

In June of 1947, the British rammed the Jewish illegal immigrant ship Exodus (formerly "President Warfield") on the high seas. They towed it to Haifa where it was the subject of extensive publicity, generating public sympathy for the Zionist cause. The passengers were eventually disembarked in Hamburg. The incident set world opinion, and particularly US opinion against the British, and caused the British to intern illegal immigrants thereafter in Cyprus, rather than attempting to return them to Europe.

http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Aliya_Bet.htm

 

[jillian]

Would you say jews have been received more warmly in the U.S.

They can come here and they know it. Their religious fanatic nationalism is leading the world into war.

you mean, live in a "Christian" country where people like you say they want to take over the world? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

That said, yes, Jews have found a relatively safe place here. But your posts and those of some others tell me that it isn't a bad idea to have a Jewish State.