Some Sane Thinking about Waterboarding

[Abelian Sea]

so what your saying is.. US military personal are tortured and water boarded ? are you sure about this ?..or did you just pull it out yer ass ?

It was mentioned in the article that "thousands" of servicemen have been waterboarded as part of their training:

According to existing law and Justice Department rulings, the practice has been proscribed for several years now — except, that is, for the thousands of U.S. servicemen who’ve been subjected to it by the U.S. military as part of their training.

 

[maineman]

the critical difference being that american servicemen are waterboarded in training scenarios where they are well aware that they will experience the sensation that they are drowning but will not be under any real danger.

detainees that are waterboarded have no such pre-procedural assurances and have no confidence that we would NOT drown them... and, in fact, if we kept the water pouring for any extended period of time, they would be in real danger.

and in some future conflict with some other nation state, when our GI's are captured on the battlefield and interrogated...if they are are waterboarded they will not know whether or not they will survive it.

My PRIMARY objection to any sort of extreme interrogation technique - besides the fact that it may very well be unconstitutional - is that however we treat our detainees in THIS war will send the message to any future enemies that we have absolutely no problem if they use those exact same techniques on our boys. They may, in fact, get treated much worse, but we have absolutely no right to expect that they will be treated even one iota better.

 

[dread]

the critical difference being that american servicemen are waterboarded in training scenarios where they are well aware that they will experience the sensation that they are drowning but will not be under any real danger.

detainees that are waterboarded have no such pre-procedural assurances and have no confidence that we would NOT drown them... and, in fact, if we kept the water pouring for any extended period of time, they would be in real danger.

and in some future conflict with some other nation state, when our GI's are captured on the battlefield and interrogated...if they are are waterboarded they will not know whether or not they will survive it.

My PRIMARY objection to any sort of extreme interrogation technique - besides the fact that it may very well be unconstitutional - is that however we treat our detainees in THIS war will send the message to any future enemies that we have absolutely no problem if they use those exact same techniques on our boys. They may, in fact, get treated much worse, but we have absolutely no right to expect that they will be treated even one iota better.

You call yourself a man?


Its with sissys like YOU who give America a wussy black eye!

Look numbnut! People from 'other' countries dont give a damn about your tender sensibilites and will, without hesitation, hurt our captured GI's. They dont give a rats ass about civility and what is right. THAT...Will never change!


Thanks to people like you who give the terrorists EXACTLY what they want!

 

[Diuretic]

You call yourself a man?


Its with sissys like YOU who give America a wussy black eye!

Look numbnut! People from 'other' countries dont give a damn about your tender sensibilites and will, without hesitation, hurt our captured GI's. They dont give a rats ass about civility and what is right. THAT...Will never change!


Thanks to people like you who give the terrorists EXACTLY what they want!

So, how should the US military behave in the field?

 

[dread]

So, how should the US military behave in the field?

Brutally and swiftly. Compassion can be ill afforded by those NOT in control.

 

[Diuretic]

Brutally and swiftly. Compassion can be ill afforded by those NOT in control.

Should there be any restrictions on military behaviour at all?

 

[maineman]

You call yourself a man?


Its with sissys like YOU who give America a wussy black eye!

Look numbnut! People from 'other' countries dont give a damn about your tender sensibilites and will, without hesitation, hurt our captured GI's. They dont give a rats ass about civility and what is right. THAT...Will never change!


Thanks to people like you who give the terrorists EXACTLY what they want!

so...you are perfectly willing to piss on our constitution? Is that correct?

Specifically Article VI (2)

If you ARE, then in MY book, you are a domestic enemy... asshole.

 

[dread]

so...you are perfectly willing to piss on our constitution? Is that correct?

Specifically Article VI (2)

If you ARE, then in MY book, you are a domestic enemy... asshole.

Pussy!

 

[maineman]

Pussy!

so....besides being an enemy of the state, you are an inarticulate moron? you should be easy to catch when the time comes to round all you yahoos up we'll have ourselves a little My Lai right in your hometown!

 

[Swamp Fox]

so...you are perfectly willing to piss on our constitution? Is that correct?

Specifically Article VI (2)

If you ARE, then in MY book, you are a domestic enemy... asshole.

Just read that section, it doesn't say you can't waterboard terrorist assholes who need to be waterboarded before they are taken out and shot in the head. Guess that means we can do it. (Amendment 10 by the way).

 

[Swamp Fox]

so...you are perfectly willing to piss on our constitution? Is that correct?

Specifically Article VI (2)

If you ARE, then in MY book, you are a domestic enemy... asshole.

And the Geneva Convention is not the Supreme law of the land in my book, especially since we are the ONLY ones that follow it.

We should tell people, we are going to do what we feel we have to do to protect our country and if you don't like it, DON'T FUCK WITH US!

 

[Swamp Fox]

so...you are perfectly willing to piss on our constitution? Is that correct?

Specifically Article VI (2)

If you ARE, then in MY book, you are a domestic enemy... asshole.

I read that section, doesn't say we can't waterboard asshole terrorists who deserve to be waterboarded before they are shot in the head. Try reading Amendment 10, it says we can waterboard.

 

[maineman]

Just read that section, it doesn't say you can't waterboard terrorist assholes who need to be waterboarded before they are taken out and shot in the head. Guess that means we can do it. (Amendment 10 by the way).

your ignorance is glaring.

 

[maineman]

And the Geneva Convention is not the Supreme law of the land in my book, especially since we are the ONLY ones that follow it.

We should tell people, we are going to do what we feel we have to do to protect our country and if you don't like it, DON'T FUCK WITH US!

in your book, tough guy? who gives a shit if it is in YOUR book?

In Article VI(2) of the constitution, it IS....

as is The United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

Don't LIKE it? Elect congressmen and senators pledged to abrogate it. Until then, follow it or piss on the constitution - which, as I told they other douchebag, makes you a domestic enemy in MY book!

 

[jillian]

your ignorance is glaring.

Well, it's easy for armchair soldiers who don't put their own lives on the line to have big, ignorant, mouths.

 

[dread]

Well, it's easy for armchair soldiers who don't put their own lives on the line to have big, ignorant, mouths.

Just because maineman was an officer in the Navy DOES NOT make him 'in the know'. In fact I can guarantee you he was safe from any real combat at all.

However you do owe your thanks to people like Swamp Fox who actually DID go hand to hand at times with Iraqis as he WAS in a real war with real fighting. Just as both his daughters are in the miltary and I think he met his wife in the military as well.

You can STFU now dumb broad!

 

[maineman]

I would suggest that you would not be wise to assume you can guarantee anything about my service, chump.

you don't know what the fuck you are talking about...but feel free to insult yet another veteran because he doesn't suck Bush ass the way you do.

 

[dread]

in your book, tough guy? who gives a shit if it is in YOUR book?

In Article VI(2) of the constitution, it IS....

as is The United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

Don't LIKE it? Elect congressmen and senators pledged to abrogate it. Until then, follow it or piss on the constitution - which, as I told they other douchebag, makes you a domestic enemy in MY book!

Here is the bullshit line you keep tooting your horn about....

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article6


"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."


No where in the constitution does it say that waterboarding is illegal or baseless. In fact no where in the constitution does it say torture is illegal. And if you want to get into the stupid 'cruel and unusual' argument you yourself said that everyone knows that American who torture wont go all the way with it so you just shot your own argument down that it is supposedly 'cruel and unusual.'


Then there is the cruel and unusual arguement that goes for criminals who have been charged. People at GITMO HAVE NOT been charged and are classified as enemy combatants. HUGE difference in the legal world, which again is not covered by the constitution.


But this coming from a guy who would have rather NOT have waterboarded those guys and allowed many people to die is what we here on this message board have to expect from you.



You call yourself a fuckin patriot because you so called served your country then want to enact shit that would get people killed is priceless!

 

[dread]

I would suggest that you would not be wise to assume you can guarantee anything about my service, chump.

you don't know what the fuck you are talking about...but feel free to insult yet another veteran because he doesn't suck Bush ass the way you do.

Who the fuck said anything that I liked Bush?


Why the hell are you bringing HIM into this?

And you have the gall to be presumptive about ME then turn around and get all pissy about me doing it to you.


Hypocrite!

 

[ReillyT]

In fact no where in the constitution does it say torture is illegal. And if you want to get into the stupid 'cruel and unusual' argument you yourself said that everyone knows that American who torture wont go all the way with it so you just shot your own argument down that it is supposedly 'cruel and unusual.'

I find you amusing. Sad and not terribly bright, but amusing. I for one am offended that you don't think Americans go all the way. That makes us sound like teases.

HUGE difference in the legal world, which again is not covered by the constitution.

I am shocked to find that the "legal world" is not "covered by the constitution."

Once again - quite amusing... in a Archie Bunker sort of way.