Some Old-School Black Powder Shooting

[Marion Morrison]

I’m looking to buy a Black powder revolver made pre-1899

Every revolver (and long arm) made pre-1889 fired black powder whether it fired cap and ball or cartridge. You can spend multiple thousands on an original that you may never want to fire or buy a quality reproduction.

Bah..my cousin had blunderbusses n stuff
A revolver like that probably can be had for around $600 with no ammo in sight.
What good is a gun if you can't shoot it?

 

[Jitss617]

I’m looking to buy a Black powder revolver made pre-1899

Every revolver (and long arm) made pre-1889 fired black powder whether it fired cap and ball or cartridge. You can spend multiple thousands on an original that you may never want to fire or buy a quality reproduction.

I guess I can have the gun in mass but the ammunition I need an F ID card

 

[Ringel05]

You forgot the Crisco!
15 grains is pretty light, no?
I love the smell of regular American bullets, but not Pyrodex..blech!
I say American bullets because I got this round of Eastern bloc bullets that stink!
Should sell them off cheap.

15 grains is a light load for the .36. You can go up to 20 grains for that and 20-28 grains for the .44. I've used Crisco before but that tends to go rancid after awhile. Bore Butter is pretty good but it gets a little messy when it's warm.

You're right about Pyrodex being smelly. I'd probably use real black powder but nobody around here sells it.

You can get black powder online but it ain't cheap because typically they won't ship less than a 5 pound minimum. If you know someone who's reenacting they might be able to help you out. FFFg is generally a good all around grind, FFFFg is rather fine (great for flintlock pans).

buy fffg black powder at DuckDuckGo

I knew Ringel would know
He probably even has a real Kentucky Rifle.

Nope, I would own a Pennsylvania Longifle instead......... The original name and place of origin for the Kentucky Longifle and the Pennsylvania Rifle is divided into distinct areas in Penn where they were made. The Pennsylvania Rifle is based on the German Jager Rifle.
Then there's the Southern Mountain Longifle, Virginia Longrifle, Tennessee Mountain Longrifle, etc. That doesn't even include the smoothbores........

Flintlock rifles - Track of the Wolf

Percussion rifles - Track of the Wolf

I want an Alvin York rifle..or a reasonable fascimile thereof.

If you mean the one he used at home it would most likely have been a Tennessee Mountain Longrifle, If you're mean the one he used in the war (the real one he used) it would have been a 1914 British Enfield........

 

[Ringel05]

I’m looking to buy a Black powder revolver made pre-1899

Every revolver (and long arm) made pre-1889 fired black powder whether it fired cap and ball or cartridge. You can spend multiple thousands on an original that you may never want to fire or buy a quality reproduction.

I guess I can have the gun in mass but the ammunition I need an F ID card

Oh yeah, I forgot. You're in the Peoples Democratic Republic of.........

 

[Marion Morrison]

Damn! Them M1As go for a lot of money!

 

[Marion Morrison]

You forgot the Crisco!
15 grains is pretty light, no?
I love the smell of regular American bullets, but not Pyrodex..blech!
I say American bullets because I got this round of Eastern bloc bullets that stink!
Should sell them off cheap.

15 grains is a light load for the .36. You can go up to 20 grains for that and 20-28 grains for the .44. I've used Crisco before but that tends to go rancid after awhile. Bore Butter is pretty good but it gets a little messy when it's warm.

You're right about Pyrodex being smelly. I'd probably use real black powder but nobody around here sells it.

You can get black powder online but it ain't cheap because typically they won't ship less than a 5 pound minimum. If you know someone who's reenacting they might be able to help you out. FFFg is generally a good all around grind, FFFFg is rather fine (great for flintlock pans).

buy fffg black powder at DuckDuckGo

I knew Ringel would know
He probably even has a real Kentucky Rifle.

Nope, I would own a Pennsylvania Longifle instead......... The original name and place of origin for the Kentucky Longifle and the Pennsylvania Rifle is divided into distinct areas in Penn where they were made. The Pennsylvania Rifle is based on the German Jager Rifle.
Then there's the Southern Mountain Longifle, Virginia Longrifle, Tennessee Mountain Longrifle, etc. That doesn't even include the smoothbores........

Flintlock rifles - Track of the Wolf

Percussion rifles - Track of the Wolf

I want an Alvin York rifle..or a reasonable fascimile thereof.

If you mean the one he used at home it would most likely have been a Tennessee Mountain Longrifle, If you're mean the one he used in the war (the real one he used) it would have been a 1914 British Enfield........

Yeah, I got that..I want the "at home" rifle. Tennessee Mountain longrifle. That sounds about right.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Why is the Tennessee rifle being sold out of Ilinois?

For that price, 42" barrel, sounds good to me.
What says Ringel?
I think that's the one I want.
I've had all kinds of guns, but I want me a Sargent York gun.
Is 42" the right length?
Even my cousin didn't have that. He had a "Quigley Down Under" 45-70 with the old school scope.
He never could get an M1 Garand like they sent him to war with..I found one 1 week before he died.
Que frustration. He's in a better place now.

 

[JGalt]

You forgot the Crisco!
15 grains is pretty light, no?
I love the smell of regular American bullets, but not Pyrodex..blech!
I say American bullets because I got this round of Eastern bloc bullets that stink!
Should sell them off cheap.

15 grains is a light load for the .36. You can go up to 20 grains for that and 20-28 grains for the .44. I've used Crisco before but that tends to go rancid after awhile. Bore Butter is pretty good but it gets a little messy when it's warm.

You're right about Pyrodex being smelly. I'd probably use real black powder but nobody around here sells it.

You can get black powder online but it ain't cheap because typically they won't ship less than a 5 pound minimum. If you know someone who's reenacting they might be able to help you out. FFFg is generally a good all around grind, FFFFg is rather fine (great for flintlock pans).

buy fffg black powder at DuckDuckGo

I took part in one of our local Civil War reenactments a few years ago and they had a large keg of black powder for the reenactors. We were firing blank charges at each other and they wouldn't allow any ramrods for the muskets. That was to prevent the possibility of a ramrod flying across the field and impaling someone. The powder still made an appreciable "boom", even though it was just poured down the barrel and wasn't compacted by a projectile.

 

[Ringel05]

You forgot the Crisco!
15 grains is pretty light, no?
I love the smell of regular American bullets, but not Pyrodex..blech!
I say American bullets because I got this round of Eastern bloc bullets that stink!
Should sell them off cheap.

15 grains is a light load for the .36. You can go up to 20 grains for that and 20-28 grains for the .44. I've used Crisco before but that tends to go rancid after awhile. Bore Butter is pretty good but it gets a little messy when it's warm.

You're right about Pyrodex being smelly. I'd probably use real black powder but nobody around here sells it.

You can get black powder online but it ain't cheap because typically they won't ship less than a 5 pound minimum. If you know someone who's reenacting they might be able to help you out. FFFg is generally a good all around grind, FFFFg is rather fine (great for flintlock pans).

buy fffg black powder at DuckDuckGo

I took part in one of our local Civil War reenactments a few years ago and they had a large keg of black powder for the reenactors. We were firing blank charges at each other and they wouldn't allow any ramrods for the muskets. That was to prevent the possibility of a ramrod flying across the field and impaling someone. The powder still made an appreciable "boom", even though it was just poured down the barrel and wasn't compacted by a projectile.

Yup, that's the way it's done. Lots of safety practices that have been put in place over the decades by the reenactors and event organizers themselves. From the Civil War there are recounts of ramrods stuck through trees because a soldier forgot to remove it during the heat of battle and of muskets full of rammed rounds then tossed away because during the heat of battle a soldier forgot to put the precussion cap on with each load.

 

[Ringel05]

Why is the Tennessee rifle being sold out of Ilinois?

For that price, 42" barrel, sounds good to me.
What says Ringel?
I think that's the one I want.
I've had all kinds of guns, but I want me a Sargent York gun.
Is 42" the right length?
Even my cousin didn't have that. He had a "Quigley Down Under" 45-70 with the old school scope.
He never could get an M1 Garand like they sent him to war with..I found one 1 week before he died.
Que frustration. He's in a better place now.

That I can't really tell you because it was more a guess on my part hence "most likely". Track of the Wolf's flinters and precussions are historically accurate, at least the Perdersoli ones are. You can't go wrong with those. Watch out for the "kits" though, they require a lot of work to finish, at least a hundred hours of shaving the stock down, filing the metal pieces and polishing everything not to mention browning the barrel if it requires it.

 

[JGalt]

Why is the Tennessee rifle being sold out of Ilinois?

For that price, 42" barrel, sounds good to me.
What says Ringel?
I think that's the one I want.
I've had all kinds of guns, but I want me a Sargent York gun.
Is 42" the right length?
Even my cousin didn't have that. He had a "Quigley Down Under" 45-70 with the old school scope.
He never could get an M1 Garand like they sent him to war with..I found one 1 week before he died.
Que frustration. He's in a better place now.

That I can't really tell you because it was more a guess on my part hence "most likely". Track of the Wolf's flinters and precussions are historically accurate, at least the Perdersoli ones are. You can't go wrong with those. Watch out for the "kits" though, they require a lot of work to finish, at least a hundred hours of shaving the stock down, filing the metal pieces and polishing everything not to mention browning the barrel if it requires it.

Track of the Wolf used to be my "go-to" place to find BP accessories before Ebay. I still get emails from them every once in awhile.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Oh, he had the Quigley Down Under gun.

It was that m1 I was trying to get him. A rifle like he went to war with.

The Quigley was special alright.

Still plenty M1's around. CMP if you jump hoops. Auctions like Gunbroker too.

 

[JGalt]

Oh, he had the Quigley Down Under gun.

It was that m1 I was trying to get him. A rifle like he went to war with.

The Quigley was special alright.

Still plenty M1's around. CMP if you jump hoops. Auctions like Gunbroker too.

I've owned six M1 carbines at one time or another in my lifetime, they used to be pretty cheap. Only one Garand though. I found one in a pawn shop in Arlington, TX back in 1998. They had just put it out and hadn't looked up what it was worth, so I got it for $320. It was a Korean War era rework and was in pretty good shape.

Except that I had been wanting a Ruger Mini-14 at the time for some reason. I found a gun shop that had one and they made me a straight swap for the Garand. That was a bad trade because the scoped Mini-14 would even do 4" groups at 100 yards when the barrel warmed up. The older Mini-14's had a problem with barrel harmonics when they got warm.

 

[Ringel05]

Beautiful day today, I thought I'd shoot some reproduction black powder rifles and pistols. From top to bottom is a 50 caliber Lyman Plains rifle, a reproduction of a Civil War era 1863 Remington Zouave rifle in 58 caliber, an Italian-made 58 caliber Hawken rifle, a reproduction Remington 1858 revolver in .36 caliber, and a reproduction Colt 1860 Army revolver in .44 caliber.

I have all the necessary items to shoot these in a toolbox: Powder, bullets, patches, percussion caps, tools, and stuff.

I'm going to shoot the 58 caliber Hawken rifle first..

It's loaded from the muzzle end by pouring a measured amount of powder down the bore. I'm using Pyrodex, which is a cleaner-burning substitute for black powder. I'm shooting a 440 grain cast lead maxi-bullet that packs a wallop, and loading it with 70 grains of Pyrodex. That's a medium load, as I could go up to 100 grains of powder. The bullet get greased with a lubricant, shoved down the bore with a ramrod, then a percussion cap is put on the nipple...

As you can see it's pretty accurate. I'm only shooting at 25 yards but this rifle is good out to 300 yards..

Next I'm going to shoot the 1863 Remington Zouave rifle. I'm using some different bullets that have a hollow base but this rifle really likes the traditional Minnie ball, which I don't any of right now. So it won't be as accurate...

Next I'm going to shoot the reproduction Remington 1858 revolver in .36 caliber. I start by pouring 15 grains of Pyrodex P (pistol) powder in each chamber, followed by some cornmeal as a buffer. Then I press the 36 caliber ball in the the loading leaver on the pistol. I thin put a dab of Bore Butter bullet lube on each chamber to keep from having a chain fire. That can happen when the fired chamber sparks over and ignites the adjacent chambers, which is not something you want. The last step is putting a percussion cap on each of the nipples...

Last is the reproduction Colt 1860 Army revolver in .44 caliber. It gets loaded the same way. I'm going to shoot this one at a 12" steel target I have 75 yards up the hill..

Tomorrow comes the fun part: Taking these apart, cleaning them with hot soapy water, blowing them dry with an air compressor, oiling them up, and putting them away until next time. They rust up pretty fast if you don't do that.

Adios.

/——/ Are the reproductions better quality than the originals?

Mostly yes as the safety requirements are more stringent these days. Better metals and long arm barrels are thicker. Many of the Civ War era muskets have very thin barrels.

 

[Ringel05]

If I ever have any disposable income again, I want me a Kentucky rifle.
A rifle just like in Sergeant York.
Hey..my cousin had a "Quigley down under" rifle. Yessir he did!

Sad thing is he couldn't get one like he went to war with, wtf?!

I found one for him, about a week b4 he died.
I never got to get that for him.
M1 Garand.

He had one similar, but it was synthetic and all this crap..

I found this place in GA, but he was on the outro.
Hoo-wee! My cousin had a lot of guns. A room with racks floor to ceiling filled with guns, anyplace they could be put.
Everything just about but what I wanted to get him. He deserved it. I loved my cousin. He loved me too.
Now that's all gone.

If you can find one the Dixie Tennessee (very sim to KY) is awesome, run maybe $800 used now.

I did not have the exact Quigly rifle but did have and 1874 Sharps, couple 1863 too.

Believe York was a Springfield 1903. I was at a Vettes for Vets ride at the Bowling Green Museum, we gave woulded warriors rides around the 3.14 mile track. Had a speaker, Sgt Yorks grandson!!!

I have a Garand, 1954 Dec, all matching, H&R, cherry condition, my fav.

York carried a 1914 British Enfield and a Colt .45 semi-auto (documented). When we entered the war we had an extremely limited supply of Springfields so we purchased massive quantities of the Enfields as well as some French long arms and MGs. Some of our soldiers were even issued the old 1890s Krag–Jørgensen rifles. It took a while for the Springfield Armory to hit full production of the 1903s.

 

[Ringel05]

The only black powder firearms I have left are my Syracuse hammerless 12 gage side by side damascus barrel (circa 1900), fires black powder shells.

My (reproduction) 1860 Army Fluted Cylinder .44 cal. The originals were made for the cavalry to make the gun slightly lighter. Unfortunately with the metallurgy of the day the cylinders would frequently blow out so Colt replaced the cylinders with standard ones for anyone who wanted the switchout.

My 1858 Remington.

Finally my 1750s French Tulle, Fusil de Chasse (kit gun). The Tulle as it was commonly referred to was the premier flintlock of it's time primarily in North America. Basically it's a smoothbore 20 gage.

I used to have an 1853 (reproduction) 3 band Enfield and an 1862 (reproduction) J.P. Murry Artillery Carbine.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Oh, he had the Quigley Down Under gun.

It was that m1 I was trying to get him. A rifle like he went to war with.

The Quigley was special alright.

Still plenty M1's around. CMP if you jump hoops. Auctions like Gunbroker too.

I've owned six M1 carbines at one time or another in my lifetime, they used to be pretty cheap. Only one Garand though. I found one in a pawn shop in Arlington, TX back in 1998. They had just put it out and hadn't looked up what it was worth, so I got it for $320. It was a Korean War era rework and was in pretty good shape.

Except that I had been wanting a Ruger Mini-14 at the time for some reason. I found a gun shop that had one and they made me a straight swap for the Garand. That was a bad trade because the scoped Mini-14 would even do 4" groups at 100 yards when the barrel warmed up. The older Mini-14's had a problem with barrel harmonics when they got warm.

I had many M1 carbines too, great little guns. Seen the variant in 256?

Paid about $700 for my Garand around 2007. Perfect shape too, never saw action, never reworked. Got prob 2K rounds ball for it too.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Ring. I been working on a Chief grade fusil from Track for many years now!

 

[Shawnee_b]

York carried a 1914 British Enfield and a Colt .45 semi-auto (documented). When we entered the war we had an extremely limited supply of Springfields so we purchased massive quantities of the Enfields as well as some French long arms and MGs. Some of our soldiers were even issued the old 1890s Krag–Jørgensen rifles. It took a while for the Springfield Armory to hit full production of the 1903s.

I can see that, nothing wrong with that 1914 at all. I have carried a 1911 since 79! Had many, 1 left. $1200 worth parts in it, commander length. Bar sto barrel ($300) 2 piece guide rod, McCormic slims, best of parts. Parted with the sprinfield.

 

[Ringel05]

York carried a 1914 British Enfield and a Colt .45 semi-auto (documented). When we entered the war we had an extremely limited supply of Springfields so we purchased massive quantities of the Enfields as well as some French long arms and MGs. Some of our soldiers were even issued the old 1890s Krag–Jørgensen rifles. It took a while for the Springfield Armory to hit full production of the 1903s.

I can see that, nothing wrong with that 1914 at all. I have carried a 1911 since 79! Had many, 1 left. $1200 worth parts in it, commander length. Bar sto barrel ($300) 2 piece guide rod, McCormic slims, best of parts. Parted with the sprinfield.

Had a buddy when I was doing WWII Gebirgsjager, deals would just drop into his lap...... I was soooooo jealous.
He paid a couple of hundred bucks for a WWII German Hi-Power with all German markings, people would give him antique WWII & WWI firearms...... He had one hell of a collection.
When we did Battle of the Bulge every year at Fort Indiantown Gap we would set up one room upstairs in the old WWII barracks as an armory.