Some Leaders Actually Serve & Lead

[maineman]

To you...they are liars...to each other, they are defending the truth from a liar.....to me...I don't normally accuse people of telling lies unless I have a damn good reason.....and in this, I can't say who is/was stretching the facts for their own purposes ....quite a conspiracy to have 180 guys come out with different memories of the same missions...

You...on the other hand, call people liars on a regular basis

as I said. Elliot's fitness report of Kerry is a matter of record. I have read it. Clearly you have not. Elliot's praise of Kerry in Boston a quarter of a century later is a matter of record. I have read it. Clearly, you have not. Thurlow's Bronze Star citation is a matter of record. I have read it. Clearly, you have not. I don't give a fuck is 180 THOUSAND guys who didn't serve with Kerry said he was a coward and a traitor. They guys who DID serve with him say different. I have read their testimony. Clearly you have not.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I don't spit on anyone. I think that Bush himself is on record as not wanting to risk his life in Vietnam and considering running to Canada or purposely injuring himself to avoid going. In the end he chose the Texas Air National Guard as his path to avoid Vietnam.

I would love for you to show me ONE quote - let alone 30 YEARS worth - where the Texas Lt. Gov. stated he NEVER got Bush into the guard.

I'll wait.

You HAVE to be kidding. He was asked when Bush ran for Governor and he was asked when Bush ran for President in 2000, are you now going to claim no one thought to ask him until 2004? What a fucking joke.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

woulda coulda shoulda

I went. I graduated. It is a tough motherfucking school. I did it. You did not. Anybody can say what they would have been able to do in their youth.... but only those that actually did it can prove it. that's a fact.

In other words your claim that your going to that school makes you smarter IS in fact what you have said, as opposed to what you stated to Kath when she pointed it out to you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

as I said. Elliot's fitness report of Kerry is a matter of record. I have read it. Clearly you have not. Elliot's praise of Kerry in Boston a quarter of a century later is a matter of record. I have read it. Clearly, you have not. Thurlow's Bronze Star citation is a matter of record. I have read it. Clearly, you have not. I don't give a fuck is 180 THOUSAND guys who didn't serve with Kerry said he was a coward and a traitor. They guys who DID serve with him say different. I have read their testimony. Clearly you have not.

The swift boat vets ALSO served with Kerry, unless your now claiming that EVERY mission he went on he was the only boat and his crew the only people present. Is that what your claiming?

 

[maineman]

The swift boat vets ALSO served with Kerry, unless your now claiming that EVERY mission he went on he was the only boat and his crew the only people present. Is that what your claiming?

I have gone on numerous deployments with squadrons of destroyers. I only really knew the sailors and officers on my ship. THAT is what I am claiming. And I am claiming that, at the time, the commanding officer of Kerry's entire division of swift boats said that Kerry was the BEST officer in the bunch.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have gone on numerous deployments with squadrons of destroyers. I only really knew the sailors and officers on my ship. THAT is what I am claiming. And I am claiming that, at the time, the commanding officer of Kerry's entire division of swift boats said that Kerry was the BEST officer in the bunch.

Ohh please, a swift boat is very small and operate right NEXT to each other, comparing them to a destroyer is retarded and YOU know it. They are open decked and work in teams. The Officers would have very good working knowledge of each other since they DEPEND on the abilities or know the non abilities of the boats and skippers they patrol with. The crews would also know one another . living in close proximity to one another and SEEING what the crews were doing on each mission from their own boat. They do would know the capabilities and lack of abilities of officers and crew on any boat they had to patrol with.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ben Barnes, former speaker of the House and Lt Governor of Texas.

Lets see what it is he has to say about Bush. Shall we?

In 1999, Barnes claimed that while Lt Governor of Texas he had "personally interceded" with Texas Air National Guard officials to get George W. Bush into the Guard. It was later discovered he was Speaker of the Texas House of Representatives at the time of this alleged intervention. At that point he stated he didn't use his political influence but rather his friendship with a General to get it accomplished.

Barnes repeated the claim in the U.S. presidential election, 2004. His daughter Amy claims that he told her in 2000 that he didn't intercede on Bush's behalf and that he was only saying these things to promote his book and help get Kerry elected since he was so heavily involved in the Kerry campaign.

And of course when he ran for Governor, where was Barnes then?

As for the question " Why would he lie about Bush?"

His Business and his politics are all about helping, aiding and electing DEMOCRATS. In 2004 he was the Vice Chair of Kerry's run for President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Barnes

Now if you do not like Wiki I can provide a couple other sources as well.

Ohh and explain again why his own DAUGHTER would state he was lying?

http://www.motherjones.com/radio/2006/06/barnes_bio.html

http://www.benbarnes.org/

http://www.benbarnes.org/Governor-Ben-Barnes.html

So I will retract the statement he denied getting Bush in the Guard, since it isn't true. But it is quite clear WHY Barnes would LIE about getting Bush in the Guard.

His OWN DAUGHTER outing him.

 

[maineman]

Ohh please, a swift boat is very small and operate right NEXT to each other, comparing them to a destroyer is retarded and YOU know it. They are open decked and work in teams. The Officers would have very good working knowledge of each other since they DEPEND on the abilities or know the non abilities of the boats and skippers they patrol with. The crews would also know one another . living in close proximity to one another and SEEING what the crews were doing on each mission from their own boat. They do would know the capabilities and lack of abilities of officers and crew on any boat they had to patrol with.

Kerry's fitness report, which Elliot WROTE, and which rates Kerry above all of his peers in that group of swift boat skippers, is a matter of record. Was Elliot LYING? Silver Star. Bronze Star. Was the Department of the Navy LYING?

But please DO continue to insult every navy man who ever won a bronze star or a silver star.

 

[maineman]

I don't spit on anyone. I think that Bush himself is on record as not wanting to risk his life in Vietnam and considering running to Canada or purposely injuring himself to avoid going. In the end he chose the Texas Air National Guard as his path to avoid Vietnam.

I would love for you to show me ONE quote - let alone 30 YEARS worth - where the Texas Lt. Gov. stated he NEVER got Bush into the guard.

I'll wait.

You HAVE to be kidding. He was asked when Bush ran for Governor and he was asked when Bush ran for President in 2000, are you now going to claim no one thought to ask him until 2004? What a fucking joke.

Today is 2008. Barnes made his first admission concerning the help he provided Bush in 1999. I don't think you have ANY quotes from Barnes himself where "he stated for over 30 YEARS he never got Bush in the Guard" let alone 30 years worth. All you have is his statements saying that he DID help Bush, and his daughter's anecdotal story to the contrary. Where are the statements from Barnes from 30 years ago? Or do you want to wiggle away from that spewage now too?

 

[Alpha1]

An anonymous letter addressed to a U.S. attorney in Texas, produced in a discovery proceeding for an ongoing lawsuit, charged that Barnes assisted Bush in getting into the Guard. The suit was brought by the former director of the Texas Lottery Commission, who believes Barnes, now a lobbyist, may have played a role in his dismissal.

In a deposition for the suit, Kralj confirmed that he would get calls from Barnes or his chief of staff, Robert Spelling, "saying so-and-so is interested in getting in the Guard." Kralj said he would then forward the names to Gen. Rose.

In an interview, Barnes also acknowledged that he sometimes received requests for help in obtaining Guard slots. He said he never received such a call from then-Rep. Bush or anyone in the Bush family.

You can figure out when the lawsuit was brought........

 

[jillian]

You mean like Paula Jones' lawsuit being brough the day the Statute of Limitations was going to run.

 

[maineman]

An anonymous letter addressed to a U.S. attorney in Texas, produced in a discovery proceeding for an ongoing lawsuit, charged that Barnes assisted Bush in getting into the Guard. The suit was brought by the former director of the Texas Lottery Commission, who believes Barnes, now a lobbyist, may have played a role in his dismissal.

In a deposition for the suit, Kralj confirmed that he would get calls from Barnes or his chief of staff, Robert Spelling, "saying so-and-so is interested in getting in the Guard." Kralj said he would then forward the names to Gen. Rose.

In an interview, Barnes also acknowledged that he sometimes received requests for help in obtaining Guard slots. He said he never received such a call from then-Rep. Bush or anyone in the Bush family.

You can figure out when the lawsuit was brought........

so a business associate of GHWB could not have made the call????

 

[Alpha1]

Sure that could have happened...as a matter of fact, Barnes made that claim later, that it was some friend of Bush Sr. that made the request to him....

Conveniently...that "friend of Bush" is dead, so again nothing can be proven....and thus remains the claim by a partisan Dem. , who was a supporter and fund raiser for the Kerry campaign making an accusation that harms Bush Jr.......something you don't find worthy of consideration.....
Can't say Rather didn't give it a god shot though....

Ancient History...

 

[maineman]

Sure that could have happened...as a matter of fact, Barnes made that claim later, that it was some friend of Bush Sr. that made the request to him....

Conveniently...that "friend of Bush" is dead, so again nothing can be proven....and thus remains the claim by a partisan Dem. , who was a supporter and fund raiser for the Kerry campaign making an accusation that harms Bush Jr.......something you don't find worthy of consideration.....
Can't say Rather didn't give it a god shot though....

Ancient History...

interesting that you presume any democrat to be a liar.

 

[jillian]

interesting that you presume any democrat to be a liar.

It's not so much that they presume it.. it's that they NEED it to be the case. If it isn't, it wrecks their entire construct....

 

[Alpha1]

When a political enemy, actively working for the campaign of your opponent comes out with damaging information on your guy, before the election...what would you think?
and to top it off, a well known TV news personality comes up with documents that support the damaging information...then those documents are shown to be fake and forgeries....etc....
Well....what the hell would any open-minded person think...? somethings fishy maybe?
YOU BET!

Its you and Jillian that drink the koolaid in this case...you guys require no proof to begin with.....and then even the bogus Rather material doesn't cause you to rethink your conclusions....

 

[maineman]

When a political enemy, actively working for the campaign of your opponent comes out with damaging information on your guy, before the election...what would you think?
and to top it off, a well known TV news personality comes up with documents that support the damaging information...then those documents are shown to be fake and forgeries....etc....
Well....what the hell would any open-minded person think...? somethings fishy maybe?
YOU BET!

Its you and Jillian that drink the koolaid in this case...you guys require no proof to begin with.....and then even the bogus Rather material doesn't cause you to rethink your conclusions....

so...just to recap. all democrats lie...that is the basis of your argument? yet the swifties were all honorable truthful patriots?

got it. I guess we're all done here.

 

[Alpha1]

I thought I posted a simple enough message that even a 10 year old could understand.....seems even that is beyond your comprehension....
your recap and my post are so far apart its useless to converse with you....

 

[Alpha1]

And yes..we are done here.

 

[maineman]

I thought I posted a simple enough message that even a 10 year old could understand.....seems even that is beyond your comprehension....
your recap and my post are so far apart its useless to converse with you....

don't insult my intelligence.

have you not posted the quotes from swifties?

you use them yet blast democrats for quoting a former lieutenant governor of texas because he is a democrat?