Some Leaders Actually Serve & Lead

[maineman]

I'm curious, do you think Kerry was deserving of all those medals? Did he 'earn' them or were they given, for whatever reasons?

I do not think that the Navy gives away medals. They never "gave" me any of mine.

 

[maineman]

Ahh yes just ignore what your fellow officer did to start the response, usual leftoid tactics. Maineman , not I , started the claim that somehow because I was not an officer that meant I did less and was not as smart his him cause he went to the Academy.

I NEVER said that. You are a liar.... and this is certainly not the first time.

 

[Annie]

I NEVER said that. You are a liar.... and this is certainly not the first time.

True, you never SAID that. Implications though.

 

[maineman]

True, you never SAID that. Implications though.

he is not as smart as me, because, I believe, he is not as smart as me. It has absolutely nothing to do with where I went (and he did not go) to school. He is not a moron...he is not a fool... he does sometimes say insulting things that he cannot substantiate... he is a fairly smart guy....but I think I am smarter.... that may be my ego speaking, but it is certainly not merely my diploma.

 

[Annie]

he is not as smart as me, because, I believe, he is not as smart as me. It has absolutely nothing to do with where I went (and he did not go) to school. He is not a moron...he is not a fool... he does sometimes say insulting things that he cannot substantiate... he is a fairly smart guy....but I think I am smarter.... that may be my ego speaking, but it is certainly not merely my diploma.

and if true, as is your opinion, what is 'funny' about it?

 

[Alpha1]

for those of us who HAVE served our country in the United States Navy, we know that the only people we really "served with" were the ones on the ships we sailed on. If there were another officer on some other destroyer tied up three piers down at the Norfolk Naval Station during the time that I was serving on a destroyer homeported in Norfolk, I would not say that I "served with him". Kerry's crew supports him and considers him to be a great and heroic leader. THEY served with him...those other assholes did not.

I'll not argue the whole issue with you all over again..its over, history...
I'll only point out you this idea that only those on his boat served with him...

When these small boats went on a mission...they went as a small group...maybe 3, maybe 4, maybe 5 boats or so at a time....it you think for a second that these crewmen, all of them, were strangers to one another, you're not too smart...those missions they sailed on together, they sailed as one unit...each one seeing in intimate detail what each boat did or did not do...
its like claiming that each 25 or 30 man squad of a particular company didn't know each other and didn't serve together because they were in different squads....thats crap and you know it....a swift boat isn't a freekin' destroyer....

I can't vouch for the truthfulness of any of the men involved, and I don't to intend to argue about it....



All of those assholes are liars...and Elliot and Thurlow are ESPECIALLY disgusting in that Elliot ranked Kerry NUMBER ONE amongst his peers in Coastal Group 11, and then went on to appear with Kerry a quarter of a century later during his Senate reelection campaign and sang his praises as a hero only to LIE for the SBVT ad...and Thurlow, who called Kerry a liar for claiming that he had been subjected to enemy fire for his first bronze star when Thurlow ALSO received a bronze star for that exact same encounter and his bronze star citation clearly states that the formation came under enemy fire.

Why am I not surprised you would post the quotes of liars?

and if you think that the Bush campaign could not have stopped that ad from running if they had really wanted to, you are high on crack.

they may be liars or Kerry maybe the liar....I don't know....
These guys were on TV and written about in the Post and the Times and paid for their own ads.....
If you think bush could have stifled their free speech, thats you business...

 

[maineman]

they may be liars or Kerry maybe the liar....I don't know....
These guys were on TV and written about in the Post and the Times and paid for their own ads.....
If you think bush could have stifled their free speech, thats you business...

the fitness report that Elliot gave Kerry is a matter of record. The fact that he came to Boston a quarter of a century later singing his praises once again is a matter of record. The bronze star citation for Thurlow is a matter of record. they ARE liars. the fact that you would quote liars is not at all surprising to me.
And the fact that Kerry's crew is nearly unanimous in their high praise is infinitely more important than some guys on some other boats in his coastal division.

 

[Alpha1]

the fitness report that Elliot gave Kerry is a matter of record. The fact that he came to Boston a quarter of a century later singing his praises once again is a matter of record. The bronze star citation for Thurlow is a matter of record. they ARE liars. the fact that you would quote liars is not at all surprising to me.
And the fact that Kerry's crew is nearly unanimous in their high praise is infinitely more important than some guys on some other boats in his coastal division.

Quoting them was just to impress upon you that THESE are the men what you've a problem with....and they did serve WITH Kerry, in that they took part in the same missions in real time....within yards of each other .....

Only one of Kerry's immediate crew did not defend him and in fact acted pretty hostile when interviewed about Kerry...thats true...

You can dismiss their views...thats your right....when that many vets have such a different view of the same events, that gives me pause...to, at the very least listen to there stories with an open mind, as I've listened to Kerry's with an open mind....

it just bothered me to have a vet claim hes a hero and flaunt it your face to get elected...right now ...its history, and of no importance to me one way or the other....

 

[maineman]

Quoting them was just to impress upon you that THESE are the men what you've a problem with....and they did serve WITH Kerry, in that they took part in the same missions in real time....within yards of each other .....

Only one of Kerry's immediate crew did not defend him and in fact acted pretty hostile when interviewed about Kerry...thats true...

You can dismiss their views...thats your right....when that many vets have such a different view of the same events, that gives me pause...to, at the very least listen to there stories with an open mind, as I've listened to Kerry's with an open mind....

it just bothered me to have a vet claim hes a hero and flaunt it your face to get elected...right now ...its history, and of no importance to me one way or the other....

you quote liars. you can't run away from that...you can only retract it.

ALL of those vets were angry at Kerry's testimony AFTER his return...and they LIED about his service while there.

He won a silver star. if you claim that the navy gives away silver stars to guys who don't deserve them then you are spitting on every navy man who ever won one... which doesn't surprise me either.

 

[Alpha1]

I guess 5 medals in 2 or 3 months of duty and a ticket home, plus home movies of myself in action, struttin' my stuff, plus the opposing accounts of the same missions by my mates.....just makes me a mite suspect.....

 

[Alpha1]

you quote liars. you can't run away from that...you can only retract it.

ALL of those vets were angry at Kerry's testimony AFTER his return...and they LIED about his service while there.

He won a silver star. if you claim that the navy gives away silver stars to guys who don't deserve them then you are spitting on every navy man who ever won one... which doesn't surprise me either.

Of course I quoted them.....thats obvious...

how else would you know how these guys felt about him....posting a bunch of names with no explanation is pretty useless....

 

[maineman]

Of course I quoted them.....thats obvious...

how else would you know how these guys felt about him....posting a bunch of names with no explanation is pretty useless....

you quoted liars. that is a fact.

I could give a fuck what liars feel about anyone... clearly you do care and DO place value and credence on their lies. As I said, I am not surprised.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I do not think that the Navy gives away medals. They never "gave" me any of mine.

Did you have the ability to write your own awards like Kerry did? And before you claim it doesn't happen it surely does, I have seen Soldiers write their own awards as well.

Kerry was boat Commander, he wrote his awards and his command approved them based on nothing more than his word he did it.

One award was for running down a wounded unarmed kid and shooting him n the back, another was for the "heroic" deed of pulling a guy out of the water.

 

[Alpha1]

you quoted liars. that is a fact.

I could give a fuck what liars feel about anyone... clearly you do care and DO place value and credence on their lies. As I said, I am not surprised.

To you...they are liars...to each other, they are defending the truth from a liar.....to me...I don't normally accuse people of telling lies unless I have a damn good reason.....and in this, I can't say who is/was stretching the facts for their own purposes ....quite a conspiracy to have 180 guys come out with different memories of the same missions...

You...on the other hand, call people liars on a regular basis

 

[RetiredGySgt]

he is not as smart as me, because, I believe, he is not as smart as me. It has absolutely nothing to do with where I went (and he did not go) to school. He is not a moron...he is not a fool... he does sometimes say insulting things that he cannot substantiate... he is a fairly smart guy....but I think I am smarter.... that may be my ego speaking, but it is certainly not merely my diploma.

Except you HAVE stated that I could not have gone to officer course or the academy and that you were smarter because you DID go, You have stated I was to stupid to graduate if I did go. You have stated the Academy is your proof your smarter.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

the fitness report that Elliot gave Kerry is a matter of record. The fact that he came to Boston a quarter of a century later singing his praises once again is a matter of record. The bronze star citation for Thurlow is a matter of record. they ARE liars. the fact that you would quote liars is not at all surprising to me.
And the fact that Kerry's crew is nearly unanimous in their high praise is infinitely more important than some guys on some other boats in his coastal division.

And another MATTER of RECORD is the fact that the LT Governor of Texas claimed for 30 plus years he NEVER got Bush in the Guard then changed his story, remind me why THAT is true but this can not be? Ohh wait, I know why, because you want to believe one and not the other.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you quote liars. you can't run away from that...you can only retract it.

ALL of those vets were angry at Kerry's testimony AFTER his return...and they LIED about his service while there.

He won a silver star. if you claim that the navy gives away silver stars to guys who don't deserve them then you are spitting on every navy man who ever won one... which doesn't surprise me either.

Just like you spit on every National Guard member when you claim such service was a dodge and cowardly. Just like you claim every National Guard Pilot was a coward that did not resign his commission and volunteer for duty as an Infantry platoon commander in Vietnam.

The Lt Governor of Texas stated for over 30 YEARS he never got Bush in the Guard, and then he changed his story, so YOU don't mind quoting liars at all as long as they are saying what you want to hear. Further the Lt Governor has no one to cooberate his changed story, no paper trail, nothing at all, except a story that after over 30 years he happened to wander past the Vietnam Memorial and get all broken up about his 30 years of lying. In fact as I recall he even stated for the record in the election of 2000 that he DID NOT get Bush in the Guard.

 

[maineman]

Just like you spit on every National Guard member when you claim such service was a dodge and cowardly. Just like you claim every National Guard Pilot was a coward that did not resign his commission and volunteer for duty as an Infantry platoon commander in Vietnam.

The Lt Governor of Texas stated for over 30 YEARS he never got Bush in the Guard, and then he changed his story, so YOU don't mind quoting liars at all as long as they are saying what you want to hear. Further the Lt Governor has no one to cooberate his changed story, no paper trail, nothing at all, except a story that after over 30 years he happened to wander past the Vietnam Memorial and get all broken up about his 30 years of lying. In fact as I recall he even stated for the record in the election of 2000 that he DID NOT get Bush in the Guard.

I don't spit on anyone. I think that Bush himself is on record as not wanting to risk his life in Vietnam and considering running to Canada or purposely injuring himself to avoid going. In the end he chose the Texas Air National Guard as his path to avoid Vietnam.

I would love for you to show me ONE quote - let alone 30 YEARS worth - where the Texas Lt. Gov. stated he NEVER got Bush into the guard.

I'll wait.

 

[maineman]

And another MATTER of RECORD is the fact that the LT Governor of Texas claimed for 30 plus years he NEVER got Bush in the Guard then changed his story, remind me why THAT is true but this can not be? Ohh wait, I know why, because you want to believe one and not the other.

link?

 

[maineman]

Except you HAVE stated that I could not have gone to officer course or the academy and that you were smarter because you DID go, You have stated I was to stupid to graduate if I did go. You have stated the Academy is your proof your smarter.

woulda coulda shoulda

I went. I graduated. It is a tough motherfucking school. I did it. You did not. Anybody can say what they would have been able to do in their youth.... but only those that actually did it can prove it. that's a fact.