Somali Terrorists/Pirates Murder The Four Americans

[Ropey]

I pray for the souls of these poor people whilst Kalam and Sunni Man play the apologists and blame others for their deaths.

I do?

I blame others for creating the conditions that led to these deaths. That doesn't mean I'd hesitate to punish the people who actually did the trigger pulling.

Pirates fear the lash of sharia law - Telegraph

Yes, all over the world you blame others for creating the conditions that lead to Muslims killing unbelievers. Including this event.

I know.

 

[Kalam]

Yes, all over the world you blame others for creating the conditions that lead to Muslims killing unbelievers.

You rarely respond with anything that directly addresses the claims I make.

You seem to prefer using distractions such as propaganda and images with no context.

 

[Ropey]

I pray for the souls of these poor people whilst Kalam and Sunni Man play the apologists and blame others for their deaths.

I do?

I blame others for creating the conditions that led to these deaths. That doesn't mean I'd hesitate to punish the people who actually did the trigger pulling.

Pirates fear the lash of sharia law - Telegraph

I said you blame others for their deaths. You do. Now I am what?

Distracting?

I'll leave that for others to decide, not you.

 

[Sunni Man]

Well it looks like Ropey has successfully derailed another thread.

 

[Kalam]

I said you blame others for their deaths. You do.

Link to the post in which I stated or implied that the pirates were guiltless.

Now I am what?

Misrepresenting my position. Again.

 

[westwall]

Resistance to what preytell? Sanity? There is no government to resist. Instead you are looking at a bunch of individual warlords who are fighting over their particular patch of ground. Kind of like the warlord period of China. Only some of the Chinese actually were competent, unlike the morons in Somalia.

Seems like the Somali fighters beat the American Military and chased them out of Somalia.

Only because we weren't allowed to kill them. The UN placed such strenuous restrictions on the use of force that the western countries left for the most part. They tried to pull the same BS on the Turks but they just killed everyone in front of them, men, women, children, it didn't matter. We are not allowed to fight that way but it worked then and it would work now. But believe any ridiculous thing you wish. They are demonstrably untrue and only make you look like a fool.

 

[Ropey]

You rarely respond with anything that directly addresses the claims I make.

A claim is a proposition that is either true or false Kalam. Your premise is clear. I disagree and think it is false.

You say that the causes and conditions lead to the worldwide events of Muslims killing non believers. 21 border wars by Muslims all over the world and which you blame others for creating the conditions that led to them.

What's there to respond to Kalam. I call your position false. There is just too many different variables for it to be simply poor misunderstood Muslims being taken advantage of whilst they go about their merry way killing non muslims, robbing non muslims, etc. etc. etc.

Your claims are simply that. Claims. I claimed that you blamed others for all these events. You said. I do? And then you moved to showing that you do in exact words.

I blame others for creating the conditions that led to these deaths. That doesn't mean I'd hesitate to punish the people who actually did the trigger pulling.

It's imple apologist claptrap Kalam so I do not legitimze such inanity whether you agree with it or your apologist supporters agree with you.

I don't.

Four Dead Americans at the hands of Muslims. Outside of the territorial waters? And all you do here is desecrate their deaths blaming the killers responsibility on the backs of others, even if you are willing to punish the killers.

Aren't you ever a considerate American Kalam.

 

[westwall]

HG the mosque that I attend is about 60% Somali

So I hear the problems first hand.

Somali was at one time a unified nation.

But after the divide and conquer tactics of the Italians in the north and British in the south during the colonial period of th last century.

Somalia devolved into tribal based areas and internecine warfare.

While being exploited economically by their European masters.

And have never recovered their sense of national identity.

That ended 60 years ago. Seems to me they should have gotten their act together in 60 years. Don't you? Or is that the fault of America as well.

 

[Ropey]

I said you blame others for their deaths. You do.

Link to the post in which I stated or implied that the pirates were guiltless.

Now I am what?

Misrepresenting my position. Again.

Link to where I said you said they were guiltless. Blame does not have to mean total guilt. Don't black and white me Kalam. That does not work.

You seek to soften the guilt with external blame.

 

[westwall]

That is sad to hear, many African nations have similar problems. I just hope Somaliland and the other part in the South get their independence.

Somalia has a lot of natural resources which other countries are exploiting at the expense of the Somali people.

So there are many outside economic and political forces who are benefiting by keeping the government weak and the nation in turmoil.

There is nothing in Somalia that is not easier and cheaper to get elsewhere, they have a little bit of uranium, iron, tin, salt (surprise), gypsum, bauxite (aluminum), copper, natural gas, and possibly oil. In other words nothing special.

 

[Sunni Man]

Only because we weren't allowed to kill them. The UN placed such strenuous restrictions on the use of force that the western countries left for the most part. They tried to pull the same BS on the Turks but they just killed everyone in front of them, men, women, children, it didn't matter. We are not allowed to fight that way but it worked then and it would work now. But believe any ridiculous thing you wish. They are demonstrably untrue and only make you look like a fool.

Play any tune that you want.

But America lost in Somalia.

 

[westwall]

Take it up with the CFR.

"Experts unanimously stress that the only effective long-term piracy deterrent is a stable state. When Somalia was briefly under the control of the Islamic Courts Union in 2006, piracy stopped completely."

Combating Maritime Piracy - Council on Foreign Relations

Piracy is rampant in Malaysia as well if you havn't heard. Has been for the last 500 years.

Which has what to do with Somalia...?

They're Islamic pirates as well. And they no doubt communicate seeing as how the Somali pirates are operating almost that far afield.

 

[westwall]

Only because we weren't allowed to kill them. The UN placed such strenuous restrictions on the use of force that the western countries left for the most part. They tried to pull the same BS on the Turks but they just killed everyone in front of them, men, women, children, it didn't matter. We are not allowed to fight that way but it worked then and it would work now. But believe any ridiculous thing you wish. They are demonstrably untrue and only make you look like a fool.

Play any tune that you want.

But America lost in Somalia.

It's not a tune pal. We left because we weren't allowed to fight. It's pretty simple the UN said you may not fire on anyone unless you are 100% positive you will hit them and only them. So we sent in a Marine FAST unit and they hit 100% of the time so the UN made us take them out, so we said OK and left. It was that simple, the UN didn't want us killing their "technicals" so we left.

 

[Kalam]

A claim is a proposition that is either true or false Kalam. Your premise is clear. I disagree and think it is false.

You say that the causes and conditions lead to the worldwide events of Muslims killing non believers. 21 border wars by Muslims all over the world and which you blame others for creating the conditions that led to them.

Actually, I reject your implication that most of these wars have (or had) anything to do with the religion itself. That isn't the same as claiming that 'Muslims' never instigate conflict.

What's there to respond to Kalam. I call your position false. There is just too many different variables for it to be simply poor misunderstood Muslims being taken advantage of whilst they go about their merry way killing non muslims, robbing non muslims, etc. etc. etc.

See above. The issue is that you choose to view all of these people as 'Muslims' first and foremost when in many cases that aspect of their identity has little or nothing to do with their involvement in a conflict. I don't live in this fantasy world where every Muslim who takes up arms does so because of his or her religious convictions.

Your claims are simply that. Claims. I claimed that you blamed others for all these events. You said. I do? And then you moved to showing that you do in exact words.

You may want to read what I posted again. I pointed out that piracy is rampant because of the anarchic conditions created by foreign interventionism. Claiming that this is the same as blaming foreign interventionism for this specific crime is simply dishonest.

It's imple apologist claptrap Kalam so I do not legitimze such inanity whether you agree with it or your apologist supporters agree with you.

I don't.

Four Dead Americans at the hands of Muslims. Outside of the territorial waters? And all you do here is desecrate their deaths blaming the killers responsibility on the backs of others, even if you are willing to punish the killers.

Spare me the melodrama. History is not a series of isolated occurrences. Every event is the result of one or multiple causes and anyone who doesn't acknowledge this shouldn't be participating in political discussions.

Aren't you ever a considerate American Kalam.

I don't believe in nationalism.

 

[Sunni Man]

It's not a tune pal. We left because we weren't allowed to fight. It's pretty simple the UN said you may not fire on anyone unless you are 100% positive you will hit them and only them. So we sent in a Marine FAST unit and they hit 100% of the time so the UN made us take them out, so we said OK and left. It was that simple, the UN didn't want us killing their "technicals" so we left.

It's people like you who claim that we didn't really lose in Vietnam.

But war has both a political and military component.

American is dominate in one area; but sadly lacking in the other.

Sun Tzu wrote about it back in the 6th century BC

Maybe it should be mandatory reading for our politicians and generals.

So they will be on the same page for the next war.

 

[Kalam]

They're Islamic pirates as well.

See my post to Ropey.

And they no doubt communicate

So produce evidence of their communication.

 

[Ropey]

Four Dead Americans at the hands of Muslims. Outside of the territorial waters? And all you do here is desecrate their deaths blaming the killers responsibility on the backs of others, even if you are willing to punish the killers.

Spare me the melodrama. History is not a series of isolated occurrences. Every event is the result of one or multiple causes and anyone who doesn't acknowledge this shouldn't be participating in political discussions.

Melodrama? In your mind maybe. I put forward that in the minds of most Americans this is not the case.

Aren't you ever a considerate American Kalam.

I don't believe in nationalism.

Clearly not in being an American either, since their deaths and the method of their deaths by their murderers are simply melodrama to you.

Thank you for clarifying your position.

 

[Kalam]

Melodrama? In your mind maybe. I put forward that in the minds of most Americans this is not the case.

And?

Clearly.

The belief that the value of a person's life depends on where they were born is stupid and evil.

 

[Ropey]

They're Islamic pirates as well.

See my post to Ropey.

I believe that he has the ability to post substantively, but I have no idea why he nearly always chooses not to.

Quid pro quo.

You may think that all the Muslim acts worldwide are just isolated events having nothing to do with the Islamic ideology. I however, disagree with you, and most strongly for on the ground we see the acts all over the world. Is some power trolling Muslims worldwide Kalam? They are simply victims of events? They are candles in the wind? Just as there is no controlling entity for Islam, there is no controlling entity for those against Islam. Islam seems not to fit in. I see proof of this everywhere. You see to extend blame on others for this proof everywhere. That's simply claptrap to me Kalam.

Something in return. An eye for an eye Kalam. That's what this is for me. Now do you understand. Two way discussion is give and take. Islam, you and Sunni Man seem to have little understanding of this concept. So, when you minimize, I point it out. When you obfuscate, I clarify. When you belittle, I jeer. When you take out of context I insert more context, even if you don't like it or agree with it since I post for the forum to read, not simply you and that's not trolling. That's quid pro quo.

As you do, so shall be done to you Kalam. That's why it seems I can produce decent discussion with some others, but not much with you. Even less with Sunni Man. And even less with georgie boy. I'm a Tanakh kind of guy.

Now do you get it?

 

[Kalam]

their deaths and the method of their deaths by their murderers are simply melodrama to you.

Your manner of presenting this information was melodramatic. Please stop twisting my words and being dishonest about what I believe; correcting you every time you do this is tedious.