Solving the "Race" Problem

Discussion in 'History' started by PoliticalChic, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,829
    Thanks Received:
    15,668
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,989
    Another day, another post by some Liberal sticking up for black folks against imagined insults by the Right.

    So....let me give a tip-of-the-hat to brilliant Daniel Patrick Moynihan: Liberal? Conservative? Or simply smart.

    His proposal for treating blacks? He suggested that "the issue of race could benefit from a period of 'benign neglect'.
    Not the overarching 'mothering' that Liberals have enforced....

    Why? Because he understood the history of every ethnic group. Such as the Irish....




    1. The Irish were the first ethnic minority in American cities, and their history shows the classic pattern of new comers to the urban economy, and society. Beginning in the 1820’s, and continued with the massive immigration of the 1840’s and 1850’s. Starting at the very bottom of the urban occupational ladder, with the men as laborers and the woman as maids. Housing was far worse than urban slums today.
    Thomas Sowell, "Ethnic America," chapter one.

    a. The French sociologist, Gustave de Beaumont, visited Ireland in 1835 and wrote: "I have seen the Indian in his forests, and the Negro in his chains, and thought, as I contemplated their pitiable condition, that I saw the very extreme of human wretchedness; but I did not then know the condition of unfortunate Ireland...In all countries, more or less, paupers may be discovered; but an entire nation of paupers is what was never seen until it was shown in Ireland."

    b. Slaves in the United States had a greater life expectancy than peasants in Ireland.





    2. The living conditions was readily conducive to violence, alcoholism, and crime. And the native population quickly moved out of neighborhoods en masse as the immigrants moved in. They were characterized as drunkards, brawlers, and incompetents.

    a. “The first blacks to move into Harlem were middle-class Negroes who left the black enclave in mid-Manhattan around the turn of the century to get away from the Irish living nearby.” Thomas Sowell, “Ethnic America,” p.39.

    b. The Irish had similar relations with the Scotch-Irish, the Germans, the Italians, and the Jews. Wittke, “The Irish in America,” p. 183,189,190.

    3. Unemployment exacerbated by signs such as “No Irish need apply.” The jobs they could get were considered too hard, too dirty, too menial, or too dangerous for others.

    4. Their average life expectancy was forty years, thus the 19th century observation, “you seldom see a gray-haired Irishman.”






    5. They rose slowly….over generations. Their first successes were in politics. It started in the mid-19th century, and within a few decades, they became dominant in big city “machines” in Boston, New York, and other metropolitan areas.

    a. And while this brought prosperity and prominence to a few, it had little impact on the lives of most Irish-Americans. In the 1890’s most of the men were still laborers, and the women, domestics.

    6. How about the Kennedys? The first arrived in 1848, a laborer. He lived and he died a laborer. Edward Banfield, “The Unheavenly City,” p. 58.

    a. But- his son was successful enough to send the grandson to college. That grandson was Joseph P. Kennedy, and he made a fortune that enabled the great-grandsons to achieve …a certain level of success in politics.

    7. For the Irish, their success took over a century before equality was achieved in income, IQ, occupations, and other socioeconomic indicia.





    8. Note: social acceptance came slowly, and followed achievements, rather than being a precondition.

    a. It was the misfortune of black Americans that they were just on the verge of passing through the immigrant experience when damaging ideas about welfare and the lenient attitude about crime took hold. It could have happened to the Italians, Germans, Jews or Irish, but luckily for them, there were no Liberals around to “help” when they arrived. Coulter, “Mugged,” chapter 7.

    So....what can we learn from the classic pattern exhibited by the travails of the Irish?

    Solving the problem of 'race'?


    Don't expect to race to a solution.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 5
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  2. konradv
    Offline

    konradv Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    22,571
    Thanks Received:
    2,558
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +5,673
    A well-dressed, educated, second generation or better, Irishman appears no different than any white American. An African-American of the same stripe is still black and in this country, fucked up as its been about race, it still matters. That's why examples from European immigrant groups aren't equivalent.
     
  3. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,829
    Thanks Received:
    15,668
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,989
    Well, captain obvious....fixated on color as you are, you are oblivious as to the numerous similarities that abound......

    ....you choose to ignore the similar memes that were associated with the Irish and blacks,...


    ...and pretend that many Irish are not identifiable as such.


    The subtext of the OP is that the marginally intelligent, and those who lean toward the mantra of the Left...that America and Americans are evil, are unable to acknowledge that there is a period of acculturation that 'immigrant' groups go through.


    If the 'special' treatment accorded to blacks was not....they'd do as well as the Irish, Germans, Jews, Italians....etc.



    Unless you'd like to make the argument that they are inferior to these other groups. Is that where you were headed?
     
  4. Ravi
    Offline

    Ravi Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    81,365
    Thanks Received:
    12,696
    Trophy Points:
    2,205
    Location:
    Hating Hatters
    Ratings:
    +29,813
    Please do not use my Irish ancestors as a tool to bash blacks, PC.
     
  5. Sunni Man
    Offline

    Sunni Man Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    40,001
    Thanks Received:
    5,328
    Trophy Points:
    1,860
    Location:
    Patriotic American Muslim
    Ratings:
    +12,444
    I am 3rd generation Irish on my fathers side and found the OP very thought provoking and correctly sums up the hibernian experience in America. :cool:
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,829
    Thanks Received:
    15,668
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,989
    While I know that you are being tongue in cheek...I can't pass up this opportunity to add to the ideas of the OP....


    I sure hope you aren't falling into the category of folks who pretend to the world what good folks they are in sniffing out imagined 'racism' at every opportunity.


    Coulter speaks to that exact point in chapter seven of her book, "Mugged," as follows:

    'Liberals took blacks as their pets, and then tried to kill them off by patronizing them to death. Thrilled with their role as ‘white friend-of-the-blacks,’ many found that they could actually make a living at it! The part requires sneering at nonexistent racists, and memorizing one line: “Goddam it, this may cost me my career but I’m going to speak up for racial equality and let the chips fall where they may!” '


    Seems as though those Liberals actually believe that blacks can't handle life as well as other ethnic groups did.

    You don't believe that.....do you?
     
  7. Ravi
    Offline

    Ravi Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    81,365
    Thanks Received:
    12,696
    Trophy Points:
    2,205
    Location:
    Hating Hatters
    Ratings:
    +29,813
    No, but apparently Coulter thinks black people are verging on retardation.
     
  8. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,829
    Thanks Received:
    15,668
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,989


    Not true.


    Her book...you might want to read it as one of those painful experiences that folks endure to build character....decries the "help" that Liberals provide for blacks that actually inhibits their advancement in society.

    Summed up in this item from the OP:

    It was the misfortune of black Americans that they were just on the verge of passing through the immigrant experience when damaging ideas about welfare and the lenient attitude about crime took hold. It could have happened to the Italians, Germans, Jews or Irish, but luckily for them, there were no Liberals around to “help” when they arrived. Coulter, “Mugged,” chapter 7.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. regent
    Offline

    regent Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    7,907
    Thanks Received:
    872
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Ratings:
    +1,764
    Perhaps the solution, and working ever so slowly, is that the American people become a little darker in color. How long?
    The changes in the race problem just during my lifetime have been enormous, changes that have caused some people no end of grief and others some hope.
    For me, I got out of Canaryville, the Yards and Archey Road. Anyone?
    If we ever achieve the utopian dream of a job for everyone able to work and a wage that meets minimum standards we would be well on our way to solving the race thing.
     
  10. PoliticalChic
    Offline

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,829
    Thanks Received:
    15,668
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,989
    1. reggie....I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are not lame-brained enough to be advising such....but guess who is:

    Michael Moore, in his book “Stupid White Men : ...And Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation!” urges whites to marry blacks and procreate so we can breed the whiteness out of the country. P. 79.



    2. If I were to write a satirical post as though I were an inveterate Liberal, I'd write exactly what you did:

    "If we ever achieve the utopian (sic) dream of a job for everyone able to work and a wage that meets minimum standards we would be well on our way to solving the race thing."


    a. Only a Liberal would resort to a view that Utopia on earth is the ultimate aim. That's like a photographer whose plan is to take a close-up of the horizon.


    b. Wages? Money? Materialism?


    You Leftists really don't understand people, and that's why totalitarian states need gulags and re-education camps to insure 'correct' thinking.


    You might lean from Dennis Prager's "Still The Best Hope:"


    Every Leftist is, essentially, a Marxist…even though most eschew the title since the fall of the Soviet Union. Even so, Left-wing ideas are predicated on Marx’s materialist view. Philosophically, the term implies that only material things are real.

    And, of course, God and religious beliefs are nonsense.

    From Marx on, the Left has fought against religion for the above reason, and because they understood how difficult it is to get religious people to engage in revolution for the purpose of bettering their material lives. Such folks often relegate the material world to lower priority than the spiritual, moral and intellectual world.

    While the Judeo-Christian society labels actions as ‘good’ or ‘evil,’ due to morality and/or self-control, the Left sees the results as due to material inequality, i.e., violent crime due to poverty.

    The Left has been far more interested in fighting material inequality than tyranny, which is why Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, etc., tend to have the support of Leftists around the world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012

Share This Page