Solar energy is dead

[mdn2000]

I actually just ordered some panels to install on my roof. Don't tell me it's dead. I don't think I can get a refund now

I am discussing only the large scale solar power plants.

 

[mdn2000]

Oh Really. Today over eight thousand megawatts of power in Germany is supplied by solar power. At the current rate of expansion, solar power will provide 25% of the power needs of the country by 2050. By the end of the century most of the electric power in the country will be provide by the sun. If technological breakthroughs occur, which are most probably Germany could be completely energy independent by the middle of this century.

Unless policies in the US change, it seem likely that United States in 2050 will be even more dependent on fossil fuels and foreign oil than are now.

Solar power in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oil Dependence Is a Dangerous Habit
Germany Gets Creative with Renewables : TreeHugger

Wikipedia, you got to be kidding, so you are learning as you go.

Oil is needed for Solar panel manufacturer, you use the negative impact of fossil fuel as a reason Solar is better when Solar needs massive amounts of fossil fuel.

You could just as easily googled the negative impact of the solar energy plants in germany and spain.

Right now Germany and Spain are halting their Solar energy plans.

Spain's economy is real bad because of investment in Solar. Go ahead, use your google.

Your cut and paste is old, Germany and Spain are cutting the funds, stopping the use of solar.

and again, Solar is 100% dependent on fossil fuel, it can never end our "dependence" on energy, Solar uses more energy so it increases "dependence".

Nope

The law, which both the German parliament and Chancellor Angela Merkel's cabinet are to consider in the coming weeks, would cut state-guaranteed prices by 15 percent for energy produced by solar panels on open ground. It would also cut prices by 16 percent for solar panels on roofs, where 80 percent of solar panels in Germany are, and eliminate subsidies for panels placed on arable land. A previous plan by Environment Minister Norbert Roettgen was criticized for not going far enough.
"The objective is to reduce excessive stimulation without hindering an expansion of green energy."
Germany to cut subsidies for solar energy | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 23.02.2010

Spain is one of the most advanced countries in use of solar energy. Just short of 3% of Spain's electric power comes from solar. Considering the financial situation in Europe it is not surprising that Spain would cut back on subsidies. Solar power in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a far cry from your ridiculous claim that they halted solar energy plans.

There is some truth in your claim that oil is used to manufacture solar panels but since the life of a solar is at least 20 to 25 years, the small amount of oil used in the manufacture is no consequence when you consider the amount of energy produced. Panels using Castor beans and cottonseed oil are now coming on the market.
Miss Solar, Solar Panel, Photovoltaic, PV, Solar module, Solar Battery Charges, Solar Brick, Solar Lights
BioSolar Solar Panels - Solar Panels Made from Plants - The Daily Green

Oh, I guess I will have to link to Super-Wiki, everyone knows that Super-Wiki is a far better source than Wiki.

That was a sharp cut and paste you did, maybe you could help me cut and paste as good.

So its my move, I link, cut and paste, trump your card, you google, cut and paste, then its my turn, right.

The issue in the USA is water.

Spain's Solar industry is dead, billions of dollars is spent, that money will keep the lights on a short time, no more.

 

[loosecannon]

Thats right, Solar is dead, non sustainable.

Seems someone forgot about the lack of water in the Arizona and California desert

http://ndep.nv.gov/news/temp_news/water093009.pdf

September 30, 2009
Alternative Energy Projects Stumble on a
Need for Water
By TODD WOODY

AMARGOSA VALLEY, Nev. — In a rural corner of Nevada reeling from the recession,
a bit of salvation seemed to arrive last year. A German developer, Solar Millennium,
announced plans to build two large solar farms here that would harness the sun to
generate electricity, creating hundreds of jobs.
But then things got messy. The company revealed that its preferred method of cooling the
power plants would consume 1.3 billion gallons of water a year, about 20 percent of this
desert valley’s available water.

In California, solar developers have already been forced to switch to less water-intensive
technologies when local officials have refused to turn on the tap. Other big solar projects
are mired in disputes with state regulators over water consumption.
To date, the flashpoint for such conflicts has been the Southwest, where dozens of
multibillion-dollar solar power plants are planned for thousands of acres of desert.

I think that is sufficient to begin. All solar power plants consume water, at the very least each plant must keep the mirrors or collectors clean of dust, there is a lot of dust in the desert. The water required to clean one solar power plant is millions of gallons of water.

Add the drought in California, the over use of the Colorado river, depleting the aquifers, the better use of water in agricultural food production.

Solar energy is dead.

Solar steam power can recycle the water used to run turbines perhaps even with 100% recovery.

Epic Fail!

 

[loosecannon]

Not to mention that while it doesn't rain much in the mojave, it does rain, and that rain water can be captured and used to run the process.

With only 6 inches of annual rain each acre of solar farm has available 163,000 gallons of water annually that is easily collectible. Just gutters and pipes or the same kind of systems used to divert storm discharges in ordinary cities.

 

[mdn2000]

Not to mention that while it doesn't rain much in the mojave, it does rain, and that rain water can be captured and used to run the process.

With only 6 inches of annual rain each acre of solar farm has available 163,000 gallons of water annually that is easily collectible. Just gutters and pipes or the same kind of systems used to divert storm discharges in ordinary cities.

I guess the Solar power plants have not thought of this, too bad they dont read the message boards. I am against things that steal billions of dollars and drive up the cost of electricity so am not going to tell them about your post.

Solar power will remain dead.

How many total acres of delicate desert habitat are you advocating the destruction of.

 

[rdean]

If energy policy is left to government, you'll get the equivalent of the Trabant and the rotary phone.

What the hell is wrong with you? You don't back up any of your assertions with even the tiniest bit of proof:

First you make this wild claim:

NASA is being tossed aside by the Obama regime. They're not going to be doing anything but watching the weather before long.
All consumer electronics and most pharmeceuticals are privately researched, for one.

Which I proved wrong and attached a link to NASA current strategy. Then you posted:

NASA isn't going to be throwing off any technology anymore that it hasn't had for 20 years, or wasn't co-developed for the military.
Press releases from government aren't research.

Then I posted links refuting that. Then you posted:

I like guns and rockets and extraterrestrial rovers, but that's not technology with any consumer throwoff.
Google stands a better chance of delivering energy and technology solutions consumers will accept.

And then Posted dozens of inventions that were developed directly from NASA technology, then you said none were newer than 30 years, then I posted another dozen that were very recent, including the panoramic camera used on the Mars rovers that are still in operation as well as modern imaging devices.

What is your problem? At least back up a measly one or two assertions. Otherwise, you look like a typical right wingnut.

 

[Trajan]

I actually just ordered some panels to install on my roof. Don't tell me it's dead. I don't think I can get a refund now

cool, how long to till you see daylight on your investment?

 

[loosecannon]

I guess the Solar power plants have not thought of this, too bad they dont read the message boards. I am against things that steal billions of dollars and drive up the cost of electricity so am not going to tell them about your post.

Solar power will remain dead.

How many total acres of delicate desert habitat are you advocating the destruction of.

quite a few, if you have ever been to the mojave you would know it is about as dead as a doornail as it is.

mojave desert - Google Search

but your point is vacuous. Farmland, industrial land and urban land are far more impacted by human development than is a solar power plant locale. So are coal mines and oilfields.

And oil drilling wastes a phenomenal amount of fresh water too.

Solar water consumption can be offset by recycling water and rainfall collection, so your thread is a failure. Just sayin.

You just hate green energy.

 

[Revere]

I hate being told I should get by with less.

 

[edthecynic]

Not to mention that while it doesn't rain much in the mojave, it does rain, and that rain water can be captured and used to run the process.

With only 6 inches of annual rain each acre of solar farm has available 163,000 gallons of water annually that is easily collectible. Just gutters and pipes or the same kind of systems used to divert storm discharges in ordinary cities.

I guess the Solar power plants have not thought of this, too bad they dont read the message boards. I am against things that steal billions of dollars and drive up the cost of electricity so am not going to tell them about your post.

Solar power will remain dead.

How many total acres of delicate desert habitat are you advocating the destruction of.

Cactus Hugger

 

[Revere]

No less than Diane Feinstein is standing in the way of putting solar panels in the desert.

Doesn't get any better than that for NIMBY liberal standard bearers.

Feinstein: Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels - FoxNews.com

 

[Charles_Main]

If energy policy is left to government, you'll get the equivalent of the Trabant and the rotary phone.

What the hell is wrong with you? You don't back up any of your assertions with even the tiniest bit of proof:
.

Yeah Rdean would never make wild sweeping claims with out a shred of proof.

Nah never.

 

[Flopper]

Wikipedia, you got to be kidding, so you are learning as you go.

Oil is needed for Solar panel manufacturer, you use the negative impact of fossil fuel as a reason Solar is better when Solar needs massive amounts of fossil fuel.

You could just as easily googled the negative impact of the solar energy plants in germany and spain.

Right now Germany and Spain are halting their Solar energy plans.

Spain's economy is real bad because of investment in Solar. Go ahead, use your google.

Your cut and paste is old, Germany and Spain are cutting the funds, stopping the use of solar.

and again, Solar is 100% dependent on fossil fuel, it can never end our "dependence" on energy, Solar uses more energy so it increases "dependence".

Nope

The law, which both the German parliament and Chancellor Angela Merkel's cabinet are to consider in the coming weeks, would cut state-guaranteed prices by 15 percent for energy produced by solar panels on open ground. It would also cut prices by 16 percent for solar panels on roofs, where 80 percent of solar panels in Germany are, and eliminate subsidies for panels placed on arable land. A previous plan by Environment Minister Norbert Roettgen was criticized for not going far enough.
"The objective is to reduce excessive stimulation without hindering an expansion of green energy."
Germany to cut subsidies for solar energy | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 23.02.2010

Spain is one of the most advanced countries in use of solar energy. Just short of 3% of Spain's electric power comes from solar. Considering the financial situation in Europe it is not surprising that Spain would cut back on subsidies. Solar power in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a far cry from your ridiculous claim that they halted solar energy plans.

There is some truth in your claim that oil is used to manufacture solar panels but since the life of a solar is at least 20 to 25 years, the small amount of oil used in the manufacture is no consequence when you consider the amount of energy produced. Panels using Castor beans and cottonseed oil are now coming on the market.
Miss Solar, Solar Panel, Photovoltaic, PV, Solar module, Solar Battery Charges, Solar Brick, Solar Lights
BioSolar Solar Panels - Solar Panels Made from Plants - The Daily Green

Oh, I guess I will have to link to Super-Wiki, everyone knows that Super-Wiki is a far better source than Wiki.

That was a sharp cut and paste you did, maybe you could help me cut and paste as good.

So its my move, I link, cut and paste, trump your card, you google, cut and paste, then its my turn, right.

The issue in the USA is water.

Spain's Solar industry is dead, billions of dollars is spent, that money will keep the lights on a short time, no more.

It doesn't sound like many people agree with you. The market for solar power plants is expected to grow at an average annual rate of 20 percent over the next decade"

Development Of Giant Solar-Power Plants Move Forward In U.S.
Development Of Giant Solar-Power Plants Move Forward In U.S. - FoxBusiness.com

LG Electronics to Spend 1 Trillion Won on Solar Cells by 2015
LG Electronics to Spend 1 Trillion Won on Solar Cells by 2015 - BusinessWeek

U.S. solar power: doubling in 2010!
U.S. solar power: doubling in 2010! | The Energy Collective

Unprecedented growth seen for solar energy
Unprecedented growth seen for solar energy

 

[mdn2000]

Nope

The law, which both the German parliament and Chancellor Angela Merkel's cabinet are to consider in the coming weeks, would cut state-guaranteed prices by 15 percent for energy produced by solar panels on open ground. It would also cut prices by 16 percent for solar panels on roofs, where 80 percent of solar panels in Germany are, and eliminate subsidies for panels placed on arable land. A previous plan by Environment Minister Norbert Roettgen was criticized for not going far enough.
"The objective is to reduce excessive stimulation without hindering an expansion of green energy."
Germany to cut subsidies for solar energy | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 23.02.2010

Spain is one of the most advanced countries in use of solar energy. Just short of 3% of Spain's electric power comes from solar. Considering the financial situation in Europe it is not surprising that Spain would cut back on subsidies. Solar power in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a far cry from your ridiculous claim that they halted solar energy plans.

There is some truth in your claim that oil is used to manufacture solar panels but since the life of a solar is at least 20 to 25 years, the small amount of oil used in the manufacture is no consequence when you consider the amount of energy produced. Panels using Castor beans and cottonseed oil are now coming on the market.
Miss Solar, Solar Panel, Photovoltaic, PV, Solar module, Solar Battery Charges, Solar Brick, Solar Lights
BioSolar Solar Panels - Solar Panels Made from Plants - The Daily Green

Oh, I guess I will have to link to Super-Wiki, everyone knows that Super-Wiki is a far better source than Wiki.

That was a sharp cut and paste you did, maybe you could help me cut and paste as good.

So its my move, I link, cut and paste, trump your card, you google, cut and paste, then its my turn, right.

The issue in the USA is water.

Spain's Solar industry is dead, billions of dollars is spent, that money will keep the lights on a short time, no more.

It doesn't sound like many people agree with you. The market for solar power plants is expected to grow at an average annual rate of 20 percent over the next decade"

Development Of Giant Solar-Power Plants Move Forward In U.S.
Development Of Giant Solar-Power Plants Move Forward In U.S. - FoxBusiness.com

LG Electronics to Spend 1 Trillion Won on Solar Cells by 2015
LG Electronics to Spend 1 Trillion Won on Solar Cells by 2015 - BusinessWeek

U.S. solar power: doubling in 2010!
U.S. solar power: doubling in 2010! | The Energy Collective

Unprecedented growth seen for solar energy
Unprecedented growth seen for solar energy

Spain Pricks Solar Power Bubble as Greek Fate Looms (Update1) - BusinessWeek

Bloomberg
Spain Pricks Solar Power Bubble as Greek Fate Looms (Update1)
April 30, 2010, 5:54 AM EDT
MORE FROM BUSINESSWEEK

Spain May Cut Rates for Existing Solar, Wind Plants (Update2)
Spain May Cut Rates Supporting $24 Billion Solar Boom (Update4)
Renovalia Says Spain Won’t Cut Existing Solar Rates (Update1)
Mediterranean Solar Bloc Investors Need Clear Rules, EU Says
Spain May Cut Rates for Existing Solar Plants, Government Says
STORY TOOLS

e-mail this story
print this story

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(Adds solar subsidy data from government report in 10th, 11th paragraphs.)

By Ben Sills

April 30 (Bloomberg) -- Spain is lancing an 18 billion-euro ($24 billion) investment bubble in solar energy that has boosted public liabilities, choking off new projects as it works to cut power prices and insulate itself from Greece’s debt crisis.

Industry Minister Miguel Sebastian is negotiating reductions in subsidies for solar plants that would curb energy costs, a ministry spokesman said this week. Grupo T-Solar Global SA, the world’s biggest photovoltaic plant owner, shelved its Spanish stock offering three days ago. Solar Opportunities SL postponed a 130 million-euro deal due to be signed today.

“They’ve put the fear of god into all these investors,” said Paul Turney, chief executive officer of Madrid-based Solar Opportunities. “By the time they’ve finished dithering around, they’ll have hurt their credibility so badly that no one will want to invest.”

Spain is battling on several fronts to revive its economy and convince government bondholders it can avoid getting dragged into a Greek-style debt spiral after Standard & Poor’s cut its credit rating April 28. Solar-plant owners including General Electric Co. earn about 12 times what’s paid for power from fossil fuels. Most of that is a subsidy charged to customers

Massive subsidy charged directly to me. I cannot afford it. Pour billions of dollars, tax dollars, money collected, stolen out of my pocket, taken through tyrannical tax policies.

 

[mdn2000]

The American Spectator : California?s Green Nightmare

Meanwhile, California's celebrated AB 32 climate change law will take effect in 2012. But it is already causing an outsourcing of manufacturing, construction, and utility investment in anticipation of the new regulations. A Riverside construction company, CalPortland Cement, announced in late 2009 it was closing its plant because of AB 32's impending regulations. The CEO wrote: "A cement plant cannot be picked up and moved, but the next new plant probably won't be built in California," but rather in Nevada or China.

California’s Green Nightmare
By Stephen Moore from the October 2010 issue

It's hard to know where the fairy tale of "green jobs" first came from. It was probably a clever marketing scheme by radical environmentalists who realized that their anti-growth climate change agenda wasn't going to sell among the American electorate if workers realized how many jobs would be eviscerated by the new taxes and regulation. So, from somewhere out of Madison Avenue or K Street, the left devised the green jobs story line: we can impose a $1 trillion new tax on the U.S. economy over the next decade, and it will save jobs, as hundreds of thousands of Americans begin assembling windmills and solar paneling

Wow, jobs are moving to China because California cannot afford Solar Energy.

I most likely will move as well, electricity costs to much money.

California is a bankrupt welfare state, you get to pay the illegal aliens electric bill, you get to give money to California to make Edison rich.

Who can pay the highest electrical rates in the Country, who can live in a state that is bankrupt.

I cant.

The collapse has began.

 

[loosecannon]

I hate being told I should get by with less.

your wife put you on a budget?

 

[loosecannon]

more like 7th most expensive electricity in the nation:

Electric Power Monthly - Average Retail Price of Electricity to Ultimate Customers by End-Use Sector, by State

and your post did not indicate that that cement plant was moving due to electrical rates, which btw, are not gonna be a whole lot cheaper in either NV or China.

 

[uscitizen]

I was offered a job in southern CA 40 years ago and turned it down because of the same problems there as today.

Anyone who does not like it there , move.

but not to KY, It sucks here, worst place in the world to live.

 

[loosecannon]

CA is still among the best places in the country to live. But I agree it won't hurt my feelings if 20% of the state moves like they did in the 80s.

 

[mdn2000]

more like 7th most expensive electricity in the nation:

Electric Power Monthly - Average Retail Price of Electricity to Ultimate Customers by End-Use Sector, by State

and your post did not indicate that that cement plant was moving due to electrical rates, which btw, are not gonna be a whole lot cheaper in either NV or China.

Sorry I did not make it clear that the cement company was moving due to electrical rates being too high. AB 32 is stated it the article, that is California's climate change law that mandates the kind of electricity I will use, let me re-word that, the government is dictating exactly what source electricity will come from, California is dictating the price, California is forcing the people to pay more money for electricity at the same time California is taxing us at a higher rate and giving my money to their friends who own the Green Energy companies.

So not only do I pay more for the electricity, more than I can afford, but I loose more in tax money so I have less money to pay for electricity, at the same time food prices are skyrocketing because everyone passes the cost of electricity to me.

You cut and paste, you need to think, what makes you think your first google result is anything less than paid propaganda put out by special interest groups.

I can say anything I want, build a website, put my idea out on the web as a news story, I can than post my idea here and tell you to look it up and see if I am right. What you seem not to realize is that you will find the answer I want you to believe because I have paid google to put my website first in the search.

What makes you think what you linked and posted to is true and accurate.

Its not.

In California first you must identify the type of customer to determine the rate.

SCE - Residential Rates

Schedule D-APS-E: Domestic Automatic Powershift-Enhanced
Schedule D-CARE: California Alternate Rates for Energy, Domestic Service
Schedule D-FERA - Family Electric Rate Assistance
Schedule DE: Domestic Service to Utility Employees
Schedule DM: Multifamily Accommodation - Residential Hotel - Qualifying RV Park
Schedule DMS-1: Domestic Service, Multifamily Accommodation, Submetered
Schedule DMS-2: Domestic Service, Mobilehome Park Multifamily Accommodation, Submetered
Schedule DMS-3: Domestic Service, Qualifying RV Park Accommodtion, Submetered
Schedule DS: Domestic Seasonal
Schedule MASH-VNM: Multifamily Affordable Solar Housing Virtual Net Metering
Schedule MB-E: Medical Baseline - Exemption
Schedule TOU-D-1: Time-of-Use Domestic
Schedule TOU-D-2: Time-of-Use Domestic
Schedule TOU-D-T: Time of Use Tiered Domestic
Schedule TOU-D-TEV: Time-of-Use Domestic Tiered Electric Vehicle Charging
Schedule TOU-EV-1: Domestic Time-of-Use, Electric Vehicle Charging

I do not see that your link defines which rate they refer to, no matter, the rate is not real, as I will show next.

http://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce12-12.pdf

APPLICABILITY
Applicable to domestic service including lighting, heating, cooking, and power or combination thereof in
a single-family accommodation; also to domestic farm service when supplied through the farm
operator's domestic meter.
A Peak Time Rebate (PTR) will apply to Bundled Service Customers who reduce their energy
consumption during PTR Events as described in the Special Conditions section of this Schedule. PTR
will apply upon the installation of an Edison SmartConnect™ meter and the meter is program ready.
PTR is not applicable to customers served under Schedules DM, DMS-1, DMS-2, DMS-3, DS, or CPP.
PTR with enabling technology is not applicable to customers receiving Medical Baseline Allocation(s)
for air conditioning.
TERRITORY
Within the entire territory served.
RATES
Delivery Service
Total1 URG*** DWR
Energy Charge- $/kWh/Meter/Day
Baseline Service
Summer 0.04548 0.09564 0.03763
Winter 0.04548 0.09564 0.03763
Nonbaseline Service*
101% - 130% of Baseline - Summer 0.06539 0.09564 0.03763
Winter 0.06539 0.09564 0.03763
131% - 200% of Baseline - Summer 0.15727 (R) 0.09564 0.03763
Winter 0.15727 (R) 0.09564 0.03763
201% - 300% of Baseline - Summer 0.19227 (R) 0.09564 0.03763
Winter 0.19227 (R) 0.09564 0.03763
Over 300% of Baseline - Summer 0.22727 (R) 0.09564 0.03763
Winter 0.22727 (R) 0.09564 0.03763
Basic Charge - $/Meter/Day
Single-Family Residence 0.029
Multi-Family Residence 0.022
Minimum Charge** - $/Meter/Day
Single-Family Residence 0.059
Multi-Family Residence 0.044
Peak Time Rebate - $kWh (0.75)
Peak Time Rebate
w/enabling technology - $/kWh (1.25)
Generation2
* Nonbaseline Service includes all kWh in excess of applicable Baseline allocations as described in Preliminary Statement, Part H, Baseline Service.
** The Minimum Charge is applicable when the Delivery Service Energy Charge, plus the applicable Basic Charge is less than the Minimum Charge.
*** The ongoing Competition Transition Charge (CTC) of $0.00700 per kWh is recovered in the URG component of Generation.
1 Total = Total Delivery Service rates are applicable to Bundled Service, Direct Access (DA) and Community Choice Aggregation Service (CCA
Service) Customers, except DA and CCA Service Customers are not subject to the DWRBC rate component of this Schedule but instead pay the
DWRBC as provided by Schedule DA-CRS or Schedule CCA-CRS.
2 Gen = Generation – The Gen rates are applicable only to Bundled Service Customers. When calculating the Energy Charge, the Gen portion is
calculated as described in the Billing Calculation Special Condition of this Schedule.

So I am a family of four, how much is my bill each month, during the summer.

You can see how I get angry at the people who tell me that I must pay more money for solar energy. I alread pay too much, in tax, for hamburger (five dollars a pound), for registering my truck, for gas.

I can state the facts about solar power, and it may not be your fault, or maybe it is, but you, and I mean you as in all who post in opposition, so I state the facts about Solar and the expensive electricity and as proof I am wrong I table of electrical rates is posted that has nothing to do with how I am billed every month.

People who are elected to office are stealing my money, passing laws that make others rich, and you know why, because just like you they google the electrical rates and find the table you just posted, now they believe my rate is fair, based on other people, not on my needs or on how hard I work.

You google and read headlines for answers and come up with the wrong answers. You are taught at school to go to google to learn, to research, and google is used by corporations and politicians to teach you what they want you to believe.

So you argue about the water, state I am wrong, its not an issue, and I see on something as simple as my electric bill you are as wrong as any person can be, that when challenged you do look for an answer, which is good, yet you come up with a wrong answer, and dont get me wrong I am not trying to be a jerk to you but you must understand I feel pretty piss poor right now.

You have voted in the politicians that are destroying my life, you not only support them, you tell me I am wrong about my electric bill and you have never ever seen my bill. You are so wrong yet think yourself right.

Water, your idea is wrong, its not even close to reality, as I have shown that you have no idea what the cost of electricity is.

What I have posted is all the result of government politicians, bureaucracy, special interest groups, lobbyist, all reflected in my convoluted electrical bill.

Sorry my friends, Solar is dead, all that you have shown is that you dont know how to research what you believe.

Of course I dont doubt some of you may be political hacks, working a job, making sure the liberals always have the last word, the loudest word, while being completely wrong thus spreading the propaganda that the rich need to become even richer.