'Socialism': The GOP's Forever Bogeyman

[Lesh]

From the Hill

American Democrats: Not capitalists, not socialists

Capitalism in its pure sense supports a free market economy and no government intervention in the private sector. In the twentieth century capitalism in the United States (and Europe) was reformed – during the Progressive Era, the New Deal Era, and the Great Society Era.



What emerged as a result of these periods of transformation was a political-economic system that was a mixture of capitalist and socialist elements: this mixture has often been called the ‘mixed economy.’ A pure capitalist economy, the “laissez-faire economy,” has no conceptual room for a social safety net or regulations of private industry or rights for workers. A mixed economy, on the other hand, does.

It is frequently said that FDR in politics and John Maynard Keynes in economics "saved capitalism." In a sense this is true, but the new system they, and others put in its place, was not capitalism in any very interesting sense of the term. The term capitalism can only be stretched so far. Why else was the term "mixed economy" created other than to point to the inadequacy of using the term capitalism to describe this hybrid system?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Who wants to get rid of American socialism for pure capitalism?

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America

I do....Move your dead ass to Cuba, commie moonbat.

Okay, let's look at a country that did exactly that.

In order to take over a country using just Capitalistic natures, the first thing you have to do is to get rid of the Government and get your people in it's place. You start out by taking over 61% of the Legislation. Then you need to disband the Supreme Court or have replace at least the majority with Capitalists. Okay, now you've done that. Let's move on to the next phase.

Now you need to get all the elites who are also Capitalists to agree on a leader. That's pretty easy to do since you now control all the methods of "Election". You have have an election where both candidates are Capitalists hand picked. You con the public into believing that they had a say into it. The person that the Elites had already picked with "Win" the election by a very close margin to give the public the idea that their votes actually meant anything. Now the next phase.

Okay, you got your leader in place now. First thing he does is to abolish (as in arrest) the Supreme Court the second they show any resistance by using the Capitalist controlled congress to write new laws that allows him to do this. Next, the Leader starts to systematically replace the other 39% of the congress with his own people until he controls all of congress.

On to the next phase. The Capitalists or Corporations then go on to systematically take it all or most of everything. What's to stop them? The price of Bread is out of site. Fuel is out of site. Housing is out of site. Life for everyone not an elite becomes a living hell. Oh, and if anyone complains, they conveniently have trumped up charges against them leveled and sent to prison not be heard of again or they just disappear quietly. If this phase sounds familiar to you what happens then Socialism goes arry, that's because when either Socialism or Capitalism gets out of control, it ends up exactly the same place with a Dictator or a Monarchy.

On the Capitalist out of control side of things, this is what brought Mussolini to power and he even gave it a name, Fascism. Hitler learned almost everything he knew from Mussolini. Both started out as capitalists out of control. Stalin and Lenin took Communism to the Extreme and ended up in exactly the same place. The last chapter of all of them were identical and Mussolini could have authored all three outcomes.

The only Fascist Government that broke away and continued was Franco from Spain. He had enough smarts to know when to not go too far. And he cut deals with Mussolini and Hitler for support to defeat the Socialist Government that was completely out of control before 1936. Franco understood to leave the Catholic Church alone while the Socialist were systematically trying to destroy it. Franco understood that it was the Elites that really determined who would have and continue to have real power. He also understood that the common person could only stand so much misery before the rebelled. Hitler also understood this. Mussolini did not and look which one survived to die of old age and which one ended up being shot, drug, and hung upside down from a Lanyard. On the other side of the coin, Stalin also understood just how far to take things before the common person would rebel in force.

In the end, all but Franco completely took over everything and had to be replaced. The two really bad Fascists ran both countries into the ground. Meanwhile, even Stalin had to answer to the Elites somewhat but he wasn't afraid to have them "Disappear". A Fascist would never to that. A Fascist IS an Elite.

Everyone keeps looking at the outcomes rather than how they came to be. Socialism by itself leads to chaos, war, death and destruction. The same goes for unchecked Capitalism. One just comes from a different direction than the other but the outcome is always the same. You need both. One to make the money and the other to protect against the Fascist takeover that comes from the unregulated greed that comes from it. Yes, Capitalism is a good thing as long as you have Social Programs to guide it so that the masses will be able to live. Franco understood this. Mussolini did not.

But yet it's the socialist/communist govts that oversaw the murder of hundreds of millions. Do you not see the folly of your own words?

And the Fascist Capitalist Governments that brought us WWII with hundreds of millions of deaths. Do you ever wonder why they both hated each other equally?

Which fascist capitalist govts brought us WW 2?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Who wants to get rid of American socialism for pure capitalism?

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America

I do....Move your dead ass to Cuba, commie moonbat.

Okay, let's look at a country that did exactly that.

In order to take over a country using just Capitalistic natures, the first thing you have to do is to get rid of the Government and get your people in it's place. You start out by taking over 61% of the Legislation. Then you need to disband the Supreme Court or have replace at least the majority with Capitalists. Okay, now you've done that. Let's move on to the next phase.

Now you need to get all the elites who are also Capitalists to agree on a leader. That's pretty easy to do since you now control all the methods of "Election". You have have an election where both candidates are Capitalists hand picked. You con the public into believing that they had a say into it. The person that the Elites had already picked with "Win" the election by a very close margin to give the public the idea that their votes actually meant anything. Now the next phase.

Okay, you got your leader in place now. First thing he does is to abolish (as in arrest) the Supreme Court the second they show any resistance by using the Capitalist controlled congress to write new laws that allows him to do this. Next, the Leader starts to systematically replace the other 39% of the congress with his own people until he controls all of congress.

On to the next phase. The Capitalists or Corporations then go on to systematically take it all or most of everything. What's to stop them? The price of Bread is out of site. Fuel is out of site. Housing is out of site. Life for everyone not an elite becomes a living hell. Oh, and if anyone complains, they conveniently have trumped up charges against them leveled and sent to prison not be heard of again or they just disappear quietly. If this phase sounds familiar to you what happens then Socialism goes arry, that's because when either Socialism or Capitalism gets out of control, it ends up exactly the same place with a Dictator or a Monarchy.

On the Capitalist out of control side of things, this is what brought Mussolini to power and he even gave it a name, Fascism. Hitler learned almost everything he knew from Mussolini. Both started out as capitalists out of control. Stalin and Lenin took Communism to the Extreme and ended up in exactly the same place. The last chapter of all of them were identical and Mussolini could have authored all three outcomes.

The only Fascist Government that broke away and continued was Franco from Spain. He had enough smarts to know when to not go too far. And he cut deals with Mussolini and Hitler for support to defeat the Socialist Government that was completely out of control before 1936. Franco understood to leave the Catholic Church alone while the Socialist were systematically trying to destroy it. Franco understood that it was the Elites that really determined who would have and continue to have real power. He also understood that the common person could only stand so much misery before the rebelled. Hitler also understood this. Mussolini did not and look which one survived to die of old age and which one ended up being shot, drug, and hung upside down from a Lanyard. On the other side of the coin, Stalin also understood just how far to take things before the common person would rebel in force.

In the end, all but Franco completely took over everything and had to be replaced. The two really bad Fascists ran both countries into the ground. Meanwhile, even Stalin had to answer to the Elites somewhat but he wasn't afraid to have them "Disappear". A Fascist would never to that. A Fascist IS an Elite.

Everyone keeps looking at the outcomes rather than how they came to be. Socialism by itself leads to chaos, war, death and destruction. The same goes for unchecked Capitalism. One just comes from a different direction than the other but the outcome is always the same. You need both. One to make the money and the other to protect against the Fascist takeover that comes from the unregulated greed that comes from it. Yes, Capitalism is a good thing as long as you have Social Programs to guide it so that the masses will be able to live. Franco understood this. Mussolini did not.

But yet it's the socialist/communist govts that oversaw the murder of hundreds of millions. Do you not see the folly of your own words?

Actually you're talking about authoritarian dictatorships

Sweden never did any of those things

That's because Sweden, like the US is also a mix between the two. Again, one without the other always means an Authoritarian Dictatorship and, in the end, chaos and civil war.

 

[Blues Man]

Social Security isn't socialism.

Social security is the government taking a large chunk of your lifetime earnings over your working career which it then uses for all kinds of spending on crap no one needs or wants then when you retire you get it back with an absolutely horrid rate of return.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

From the Hill

American Democrats: Not capitalists, not socialists

Capitalism in its pure sense supports a free market economy and no government intervention in the private sector. In the twentieth century capitalism in the United States (and Europe) was reformed – during the Progressive Era, the New Deal Era, and the Great Society Era.



What emerged as a result of these periods of transformation was a political-economic system that was a mixture of capitalist and socialist elements: this mixture has often been called the ‘mixed economy.’ A pure capitalist economy, the “laissez-faire economy,” has no conceptual room for a social safety net or regulations of private industry or rights for workers. A mixed economy, on the other hand, does.

It is frequently said that FDR in politics and John Maynard Keynes in economics "saved capitalism." In a sense this is true, but the new system they, and others put in its place, was not capitalism in any very interesting sense of the term. The term capitalism can only be stretched so far. Why else was the term "mixed economy" created other than to point to the inadequacy of using the term capitalism to describe this hybrid system?

Make no mistake, today's Dems are authoritarian socialists who would love for the state to control everything. Youre blind or hacking along if you believe otherwise.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Social Security isn't socialism.

Social security is the government taking a large chunk of your lifetime earnings over your working career which it then uses for all kinds of spending on crap no one needs or wants then when you retire you get it back with an absolutely horrid rate of return.

Absolutely correct. The ultimate Ponzi scheme. It would all fall apart if everyone was given a choice to opt in or out .

 

[Oddball]

That's because Sweden, like the US is also a mix between the two. Again, one without the other always means an Authoritarian Dictatorship and, in the end, chaos and civil war.

Absolute uncorroborated horse shit.

 

[Blues Man]

Social Security isn't socialism.

Social security is the government taking a large chunk of your lifetime earnings over your working career which it then uses for all kinds of spending on crap no one needs or wants then when you retire you get it back with an absolutely horrid rate of return.

Absolutely correct. The ultimate Ponzi scheme. It would all fall apart if everyone was given a choice to opt in or out .

I can't believe anyone older than 12 thinks the governemnt is looking out for them

 

[Oddball]

Which fascist capitalist govts brought us WW 2?

According to Hayek, they were all fascists, to one degree or another....And he was correct.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Which fascist capitalist govts brought us WW 2?

According to Hayek, they were all fascists, to one degree or another....And he was correct.

Yeah and it further proves the point of why govts aren't looking out for our best interest. It's amazing how much faith libs place in their religion......govt.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Who wants to get rid of American socialism for pure capitalism?

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America

I do....Move your dead ass to Cuba, commie moonbat.

Okay, let's look at a country that did exactly that.

In order to take over a country using just Capitalistic natures, the first thing you have to do is to get rid of the Government and get your people in it's place. You start out by taking over 61% of the Legislation. Then you need to disband the Supreme Court or have replace at least the majority with Capitalists. Okay, now you've done that. Let's move on to the next phase.

Now you need to get all the elites who are also Capitalists to agree on a leader. That's pretty easy to do since you now control all the methods of "Election". You have have an election where both candidates are Capitalists hand picked. You con the public into believing that they had a say into it. The person that the Elites had already picked with "Win" the election by a very close margin to give the public the idea that their votes actually meant anything. Now the next phase.

Okay, you got your leader in place now. First thing he does is to abolish (as in arrest) the Supreme Court the second they show any resistance by using the Capitalist controlled congress to write new laws that allows him to do this. Next, the Leader starts to systematically replace the other 39% of the congress with his own people until he controls all of congress.

On to the next phase. The Capitalists or Corporations then go on to systematically take it all or most of everything. What's to stop them? The price of Bread is out of site. Fuel is out of site. Housing is out of site. Life for everyone not an elite becomes a living hell. Oh, and if anyone complains, they conveniently have trumped up charges against them leveled and sent to prison not be heard of again or they just disappear quietly. If this phase sounds familiar to you what happens then Socialism goes arry, that's because when either Socialism or Capitalism gets out of control, it ends up exactly the same place with a Dictator or a Monarchy.

On the Capitalist out of control side of things, this is what brought Mussolini to power and he even gave it a name, Fascism. Hitler learned almost everything he knew from Mussolini. Both started out as capitalists out of control. Stalin and Lenin took Communism to the Extreme and ended up in exactly the same place. The last chapter of all of them were identical and Mussolini could have authored all three outcomes.

The only Fascist Government that broke away and continued was Franco from Spain. He had enough smarts to know when to not go too far. And he cut deals with Mussolini and Hitler for support to defeat the Socialist Government that was completely out of control before 1936. Franco understood to leave the Catholic Church alone while the Socialist were systematically trying to destroy it. Franco understood that it was the Elites that really determined who would have and continue to have real power. He also understood that the common person could only stand so much misery before the rebelled. Hitler also understood this. Mussolini did not and look which one survived to die of old age and which one ended up being shot, drug, and hung upside down from a Lanyard. On the other side of the coin, Stalin also understood just how far to take things before the common person would rebel in force.

In the end, all but Franco completely took over everything and had to be replaced. The two really bad Fascists ran both countries into the ground. Meanwhile, even Stalin had to answer to the Elites somewhat but he wasn't afraid to have them "Disappear". A Fascist would never to that. A Fascist IS an Elite.

Everyone keeps looking at the outcomes rather than how they came to be. Socialism by itself leads to chaos, war, death and destruction. The same goes for unchecked Capitalism. One just comes from a different direction than the other but the outcome is always the same. You need both. One to make the money and the other to protect against the Fascist takeover that comes from the unregulated greed that comes from it. Yes, Capitalism is a good thing as long as you have Social Programs to guide it so that the masses will be able to live. Franco understood this. Mussolini did not.

But yet it's the socialist/communist govts that oversaw the murder of hundreds of millions. Do you not see the folly of your own words?

And the Fascist Capitalist Governments that brought us WWII with hundreds of millions of deaths. Do you ever wonder why they both hated each other equally?

Which fascist capitalist govts brought us WW 2?

Did you ever take a World History Class? I wonder.

The Inventor of the Fascist Government and the inventor of the term Fascist, Mussolini. And then is prodogee, Adolf Hitler. I know, I know, the Nazis called it a socialist government but you can paint the lips of a pig with lipstick but it's still a pig and it was Fascism until Hitler consolidated all his power and it became an Authoritive Dictatorship and certainly wasn't socialist or fascists in any way. Mussolini did the same thing which was where Hitler learned how do do what he did. Franco also learned from Mussolini but also learned how not to take it past the Fascism. These all started out as Capitalists getting full power and getting out of control. If it appears to look like, say, Venzueala, it's because both Socialism and Captialism when out of control leads to authoritive Dicatorships. The only difference is who is in control in the ends.

 

[skookerasbil]

Progressives think socialism would be wonderful. But it would be a disaster for them because they'd be the first people to lose all their shit when Cowboys and Liberals breaks out. It'd suck for them....when trickle up poverty takes over a society, the defenseless get bulldozed the worst. Not worth it.

 

[Oddball]

I do....Move your dead ass to Cuba, commie moonbat.

Okay, let's look at a country that did exactly that.

In order to take over a country using just Capitalistic natures, the first thing you have to do is to get rid of the Government and get your people in it's place. You start out by taking over 61% of the Legislation. Then you need to disband the Supreme Court or have replace at least the majority with Capitalists. Okay, now you've done that. Let's move on to the next phase.

Now you need to get all the elites who are also Capitalists to agree on a leader. That's pretty easy to do since you now control all the methods of "Election". You have have an election where both candidates are Capitalists hand picked. You con the public into believing that they had a say into it. The person that the Elites had already picked with "Win" the election by a very close margin to give the public the idea that their votes actually meant anything. Now the next phase.

Okay, you got your leader in place now. First thing he does is to abolish (as in arrest) the Supreme Court the second they show any resistance by using the Capitalist controlled congress to write new laws that allows him to do this. Next, the Leader starts to systematically replace the other 39% of the congress with his own people until he controls all of congress.

On to the next phase. The Capitalists or Corporations then go on to systematically take it all or most of everything. What's to stop them? The price of Bread is out of site. Fuel is out of site. Housing is out of site. Life for everyone not an elite becomes a living hell. Oh, and if anyone complains, they conveniently have trumped up charges against them leveled and sent to prison not be heard of again or they just disappear quietly. If this phase sounds familiar to you what happens then Socialism goes arry, that's because when either Socialism or Capitalism gets out of control, it ends up exactly the same place with a Dictator or a Monarchy.

On the Capitalist out of control side of things, this is what brought Mussolini to power and he even gave it a name, Fascism. Hitler learned almost everything he knew from Mussolini. Both started out as capitalists out of control. Stalin and Lenin took Communism to the Extreme and ended up in exactly the same place. The last chapter of all of them were identical and Mussolini could have authored all three outcomes.

The only Fascist Government that broke away and continued was Franco from Spain. He had enough smarts to know when to not go too far. And he cut deals with Mussolini and Hitler for support to defeat the Socialist Government that was completely out of control before 1936. Franco understood to leave the Catholic Church alone while the Socialist were systematically trying to destroy it. Franco understood that it was the Elites that really determined who would have and continue to have real power. He also understood that the common person could only stand so much misery before the rebelled. Hitler also understood this. Mussolini did not and look which one survived to die of old age and which one ended up being shot, drug, and hung upside down from a Lanyard. On the other side of the coin, Stalin also understood just how far to take things before the common person would rebel in force.

In the end, all but Franco completely took over everything and had to be replaced. The two really bad Fascists ran both countries into the ground. Meanwhile, even Stalin had to answer to the Elites somewhat but he wasn't afraid to have them "Disappear". A Fascist would never to that. A Fascist IS an Elite.

Everyone keeps looking at the outcomes rather than how they came to be. Socialism by itself leads to chaos, war, death and destruction. The same goes for unchecked Capitalism. One just comes from a different direction than the other but the outcome is always the same. You need both. One to make the money and the other to protect against the Fascist takeover that comes from the unregulated greed that comes from it. Yes, Capitalism is a good thing as long as you have Social Programs to guide it so that the masses will be able to live. Franco understood this. Mussolini did not.

But yet it's the socialist/communist govts that oversaw the murder of hundreds of millions. Do you not see the folly of your own words?

And the Fascist Capitalist Governments that brought us WWII with hundreds of millions of deaths. Do you ever wonder why they both hated each other equally?

Which fascist capitalist govts brought us WW 2?

Did you ever take a World History Class? I wonder.

The Inventor of the Fascist Government and the inventor of the term Fascist, Mussolini. And then is prodogee, Adolf Hitler. I know, I know, the Nazis called it a socialist government but you can paint the lips of a pig with lipstick but it's still a pig and it was Fascism until Hitler consolidated all his power and it became an Authoritive Dictatorship and certainly wasn't socialist or fascists in any way. Mussolini did the same thing which was where Hitler learned how do do what he did. Franco also learned from Mussolini but also learned how not to take it past the Fascism. These all started out as Capitalists getting full power and getting out of control. If it appears to look like, say, Venzueala, it's because both Socialism and Captialism when out of control leads to authoritive Dicatorships. The only difference is who is in control in the ends.

I know plenty about history....Much of it not gleaned from the usual suspect "mainstream" propagandists.

The differences between Soviet communism and Nazi fascism are matters of small degrees, all of which are form over substance.

But you go ahead and keep pretending that they're polar opposites...We can't go around busting up your cognitive dissonance.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Which fascist capitalist govts brought us WW 2?

According to Hayek, they were all fascists, to one degree or another....And he was correct.

One person, in here, brought up a good point. ALL good Capitalist must run their businesses in a Fascist nature in order to be successful. Of course, it's also known that a little socialism helps to keep the production high and the workers happy so even that thought is somewhat false. But I do agree that an successful major corporation will have to run largely in a fascist method in order to make the highest yield and keep the worker benefits as low as possible. Even a large Corporation is working with a balancing act between pure capitalism and pure socialism. One of the levels is Fascism that works well in a business model but sucks the big one for Nations Governments.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Progressives think socialism would be wonderful. But it would be a disaster for them because they'd be the first people to lose all their shit when Cowboys and Liberals breaks out. It'd suck for them....when trickle up poverty takes over a society, the defenseless get bulldozed the worst. Not worth it.

With the Capitalist in charge, we are already getting trickle up poverty.

 

[sartre play]

Who" borrowed " the social security money? allowing less increases & less dependability for the future?

 

[Oddball]

One person, in here, brought up a good point. ALL good Capitalist must run their businesses in a Fascist nature in order to be successful. Of course, it's also known that a little socialism helps to keep the production high and the workers happy so even that thought is somewhat false. But I do agree that an successful major corporation will have to run largely in a fascist method in order to make the highest yield and keep the worker benefits as low as possible. Even a large Corporation is working with a balancing act between pure capitalism and pure socialism. One of the levels is Fascism that works well in a business model but sucks the big one for Nations Governments.

That's easily the stupidest shit I've read today, and that's including the hopelessly stupid Lesh.

if you're such a big expert about how successful business are run, why aren't you running one right now, instead of holding forth your authoritarian lunacy here?

 

[Oddball]

Progressives think socialism would be wonderful. But it would be a disaster for them because they'd be the first people to lose all their shit when Cowboys and Liberals breaks out. It'd suck for them....when trickle up poverty takes over a society, the defenseless get bulldozed the worst. Not worth it.

With the Capitalist in charge, we are already getting trickle up poverty.

For the most part, crony corporatists are in charge....But, again, that would force you to abandon your cognitive dissonance and confront reality.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

One person, in here, brought up a good point. ALL good Capitalist must run their businesses in a Fascist nature in order to be successful. Of course, it's also known that a little socialism helps to keep the production high and the workers happy so even that thought is somewhat false. But I do agree that an successful major corporation will have to run largely in a fascist method in order to make the highest yield and keep the worker benefits as low as possible. Even a large Corporation is working with a balancing act between pure capitalism and pure socialism. One of the levels is Fascism that works well in a business model but sucks the big one for Nations Governments.

That's easily the stupidest shit I've read today, and that's including the hopelessly stupid Lesh.

if you're such a big expert about how successful business are run, why aren't you running one right now, instead of holding forth your authoritarian lunacy here?

Because I am retired having sold off a one. I am enjoying not having to do a damned thing. And from the looks of things, I will probably out live your unhappy ass. Now, what's your excuse?

 

[Tehon]

Dude,face it, you don't know what socialism is.

Here's the definition

Definition of socialism. 1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the meansof production and distribution of goods.

Kindly explain what you think I get wrong.

Clearly we have private ownership of the means of production.

The capitalist system of production is organized around capital and private ownership.

Regulating it doesn't alter this arrangement. It is still capitalism.

No it doesn't. And regulating for the good of the common person's good is part of socialism. Again, one without the other means chaos. Can you imagine trade wars being decided between Pratt and Whitney and GE by each one raising an army and attacking each other and only the survivor stays in business? Yes, that sounds absurd but it's not like it hasn't happened in other businesses in the past. Enter the regulartory nature of Socialism that the Government (the largest customer of both) ensures that both can exist.

No it doesn't

Then why give it a new name. Regulated capitalism is still capitalism.

Socialism is an entirely different animal.