Socialism-the BIGGEST plight/failure to this world, EVER.

[JakeStarkey]

-SIGH How many times am Ima have to close this case? LOL

You have not even gotten off the starting blocks, kid. Your plight is that you have mislabeled your OP, moron. You have provided no statistics that are verifiable. If you are going to that path of stupidity, without a doubt, my religion, Christianity, has killed far more than communism and fascism and imperialism together.

Go study how to create a thesis, moron, and then come back with one that makes sense.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yep the Nazi must be socialist because they have it in their name.

Next you'll make the jump to Nazis were liberals.

Liberals that hate liberty, freedom, individual responisblility.

Black is white, up is down.

Your world.

They were indeed called the National Socialist Workers Party for a reason, do you want me to pull up their manifesto? Or are you gonna be good and stay quiet now, as all you're doing is talking outta your ass, as usual.

People who equate Nazism to Socialism just advertise how little of history they really know. Just because the original German labor party had the word "socialist" in it hardly means that Hitler adopted THEIR way of life thereunder. Here's what I posted in another thread in response to Frazzledgear's similar allegation.

Get educated.

Nazism and communism are BOTH at the same end of the political spectrum on the LEFT -and anarchy is their opposite at the extreme other end on the right! The Nazis were LEFTWING EXTREMISTS just like communists are!

I got about that far, hoping some accurate historical analysis had actually penetrated, but alas, I was wrong again. Hitler fooled the German people who had once rallied behind him. Once in power, he quickly established himself as a dictator. His subservient legislature passed the Enabling Act which allowed Hitler to NAZIFY the SOCIALIST labor majority. He replaced all labor unions with one Nazi-controlled "German Labor Front" and banned all political parties except his own. The economy, the media, and all cultural activities were brought under Nazi authority by making an individiual's livelihood dependent on his or her political activity. That is NOT "leftist" by any stretch of the imagination. "Leftists" support social change to create a more equal society among all walks of life. Hitler and his Nazis quite obviously did not.

Hitler hated the Communists, by the way.

 

[MaggieMae]

youre confusing socialist regimes with socialist ideas. we are the US already employ many socialist ideas into our version of democracy.

Social Security
Medicare
Education
Unemployment Insurance
The School Breakfast Program
Disability Insurance
Jails
The VA
Firefighters
Police
USPS

If we were to become a true "free-market" society. none of these programs would exist, and we would have to pay for all of these services.

if that be the case, are we prepared to pay for fire fighters to come to our homes if they are burning, the police to come to our businesses if someone is stealing, the jails to house the criminals of society, the primary education of all of our children?

to eliminate all social programs, would mean yes we may get to keep more of our money in our own pocket on our paycheck, but it would also mean that we would be spending 10 times that in the basic services that our tax provide for.

Alot of those "examples" are actually funded by the local municipalities or by the state. I don't think any conservative would argue that we shouldn't have police men or fire fighters.

And we can argue over the semantics of what is a socialist idea and what is not, but most people that oppose socialism have a problem with the federal government controlling those things. I have no problem with state governments funding schools or jails but when you have a federal department of education telling 300 plus million people how their children should be schooled I tend to have problems. If people in their local communities want to teach their kids differently then mine, then I have no problem with that.

You are right though that we do have some "socialist" programs that are run by the federal government and I would contend that they are partly responsible for the fiscal problems this country faces.

And why do you suppose the US now ranks so low in quality of education compared to some of our biggest global competitors? Because we have no standard curriculum. When states, or more accurately local school boards, have the right to eliminate such ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY subjects such as Civics and European History (so that idiots don't continue to believe that Nazism equals Socialism), then it should come as no surprise that we're continuing to graduate a bunch of baboons who have learned by rote (usually from a computer).

 

[MaggieMae]

I don't know who any of you people are.

Also, the OP is bland partisan twattery that we've all heard before.

Yep, and guess who promotes it on the airwaves day in/day out.

 

[MaggieMae]

I don't know who any of you people are.

Also, the OP is bland partisan twattery that we've all heard before.

..............That's me not caring a shit bout your opinion, wait....................

Well guess what. We don't care about yours either. You think you're posting some new revelation that no one's ever heard before? Do you think you will have one ounce of sway with any of us who KNOW that your generalizations do NOT contain enough factual, historic information to even intelligently form your "opinion"??

 

[MaggieMae]

Yep the Nazi must be socialist because they have it in their name.

Next you'll make the jump to Nazis were liberals.

Liberals that hate liberty, freedom, individual responisblility.

Black is white, up is down.

Your world.

This post is a joke, right?

Liberals do hate liberty, freedom, and don't believe individual responsibility even exists.

Another one who has been around way too much horseshit. Literally and figurately.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

Tally up ALL those killed by the far-left Socialist regimes of Hitler, every regime in the U.S.S.R., Mao, various past Socialist regimes of Latin America. not to mention every war they started. WW2, Vietnam, etc. And you get Satan's own personal masturbatory aid collage.

Count the large number of times Socialism has fallen, been disproven, fell to Capitalism.

Compare of superpower status, usual economic prosperity, and freedom in Capitalist nations of the U.S. and western Europe, to well, anywhere else in the world, including a small, insignificant village in China somewhere.

There is no comparison. This is the main reason why the left must be defeated, and shunned, here, everywhere. It's/they are inherently anti-liberty, freedom, prosperity, individualism, etc.

unfettered capitalism (YOUR ideal) is selling America to the highest foreign bidder

japan and china are buying it parcel by parcel

foreigners, made rich by agreement with greedy American capitalists, are buying up America....

unfettered capitalists (in an earnest attempt to please YOU) are sending jobs over seas in order to unemploy as many Americans as possible and scoop up even MORE wealth (i really hope you are happy)


Maybe someday your dream of a small handful of Americans owning ALL THE WEALTH while the rest of us eat out of their too few garbage cans will come true!


"It's/they are inherently anti-liberty, freedom, prosperity, individualism, etc."


so...
when we are NOT being IMMORAL HEDONISTS WHO believe in ANYTHING GOES we are anti-freedom and anti-liberty?

LOL you're clueless.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

So far I am at approximately 94 million deaths directly attributed to the ideals and system to whoch you Liberal Democrats ascribe. Are tyou proud of yourself for electing one of them as your President in 2008?

Hmm, so you are saying that socialists are better soldiers than the capitalist killing machine US military. That the US military is a complete fucking failure at killing the enemy in comparison to Socialists. Just one more reason that capitalism is a failure.

Ummmm NO.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

-SIGH How many times am Ima have to close this case? LOL

You have not even gotten off the starting blocks, kid. Your plight is that you have mislabeled your OP, moron. You have provided no statistics that are verifiable. If you are going to that path of stupidity, without a doubt, my religion, Christianity, has killed far more than communism and fascism and imperialism together.

Go study how to create a thesis, moron, and then come back with one that makes sense.

Well now you're just repeating yourself, guess you're outta other asinine claims to make, hpw sad.

Go spam someone else's thread.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

MaggieMae wrote:

People who equate Nazism to Socialism just advertise how little of history they really know. Just because the original German labor party had the word "socialist" in it hardly means that Hitler adopted THEIR way of life thereunder. Here's what I posted in another thread in response to Frazzledgear's similar allegation.

Get educated.

I already laid out why that's BS, by pulling up, POINT BY POINT, the ideals of said manifesto, which was implemented. Funny how you ignored that post/debate earlier in the thread, and like Shintao and Starskey, just wanna ignore facts, and make up asinine claims to make yall selves feel better.

 

[JakeStarkey]

-SIGH How many times am Ima have to close this case? LOL

You have not even gotten off the starting blocks, kid. Your plight is that you have mislabeled your OP, moron. You have provided no statistics that are verifiable. If you are going to that path of stupidity, without a doubt, my religion, Christianity, has killed far more than communism and fascism and imperialism together.

Go study how to create a thesis, moron, and then come back with one that makes sense.

Well now you're just repeating yourself, guess you're outta other asinine claims to make, hpw sad.

Go spam someone else's thread.

You are upset that you can't defend your own OP? OK.

 

[MaggieMae]

They were indeed called the National Socialist Workers Party for a reason, do you want me to pull up their manifesto? Or are you gonna be good and stay quiet now, as all you're doing is talking outta your ass, as usual.

By all means, pull up their manifesto.

25 Points of the Nazi party - Nazi Party Manifesto

That should do, it's all the points of said manifesto, which starts "WE ARE SOCIALISTS" if I remember correctly (and I'm pretty damn sure I do), cuz I had it saved on my old, and now shot hard drive, and don't feel like combing thru Google links cuz its 3:30 A.M. here.....

11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

Seriously, that should be MOOOOOORE than enough, lol I can't believe you were gonna try this dude, I mean cmon, Fascism, Hitler, the Nazis being anything even remotely close to rightist is 1 of the greatest political myths ever.

You are clinically a moron. I think this is one of the few times I've seen someone actually cherry pick Adolph Hitler's brain to suit his own agenda, at least on this board. The first glaring point should be what constitutes "a citizen" in this manifesto, which should be remembered as you read through all 25.

Table of Contents of the Dachau Scrapbook web site

The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party

1 We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.

2 We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.

3 We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.


4 Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman. And of course, "creed" is further defined below as Christian only.

5 Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.

6 The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.

We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favour of the party without regard to character and fitness.

7 We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

8 Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

9 All citizens must possess equal rights and duties. After allegiance to the Nazi Party, of course.

10 The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
Therefore we demand:

11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished. Bye bye stock market; bye bye inheritances; bye bye interest on capital investments.

12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits. Bye Bye Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, etc.

13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16 We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalisation of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities. Bye bye Rodeo Drive shopping, hello wall-to-wall big boxes.

17 We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18 We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

19 We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law. What? No Christian Catholics?

20 In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State. Brainwashed to white Christian supremecy, in other words.

21 The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centres, by prohibiting juvenile labour, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

22 We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.

23 We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:

(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.
(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.
(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.
Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved. And of course this is exactly what he did; not what he pretended he would do.

24 We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the principle:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25 In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.

The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.

The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

With comments.

Of course the actual history of the German Third Reich bears out the reality of the generalizations put forth in that piece of shit. And for those who don't trust Wikipedia's accuracy, I suggest you click on its numerous sources therein.

Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JakeStarkey]

bigrebnc is as big a Hitler cherry picker as Righteous 1. They are both moronic. They both believe that he was a socialist. biggie (also known as Little Saul of the The Right) got his butt kicked for the better part of two weeks on that silly issue. His own sources were shown to him demonstrating that he was wrong. He just cried, saying we were picking on him. He is a nutter.

 

[MaggieMae]

Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Happy with Nazi prosperity, most Germans remained silently obedient,[original research?][when?] while political opponents, especially the Communists, Marxists, and international socialists were imprisoned; "between 1933 and 1945, more than 3 million Germans had been in concentration camps, or prison, for political reasons".[16][17][18] "Tens of thousands of Germans were killed for one or another form of resistance. Between 1933 and 1945, Sondergerichte (Nazi "special courts") killed 12,000 Germans, courts martial killed 25,000 German soldiers, and civil justice killed 40,000 Germans. Many of these Germans were part of the government, civil, or military service, a circumstance which enabled them to engage in subversion and conspiracy, while involved, marginally or significantly, in the government’s policies."[19]

.........That's your response........are you.......serious?

You think that just because Hitler had a different brand of national socialism, and imprisoned OBVIOUS threats to his power, or as he perceived anyway, that that somehow, magically disproves the archived facts I previously posted? The obvious far-left socialist ideals Hitler implemented?

Stalin had fellow commies jailed, and killed routinely too, OMG HE WAS REALLY A CAPITALIST! Quick call the Kremlin!

LOL wooooow, I think my work here is definitely done for the night.

Your "work"?? I do hope you realize you could be shot, according to the "manifesto" you believe in because posting on a message board wouldn't constitute "work" according thereto.

 

[MaggieMae]

This silliness of these debates continues.

Imagine that we were debating chemisty and some people insisted that they got to redefine what the elements were.

That is EXACTLY what some of you insist is your right when discussing POLITICAL SCIENCE.

Socialism has a clearly defined meaning.

It's not subject to a vote, these words have meanings that you don't get to redefine to suit your POV.

Socialism exists when the government controls the means of production.

That is ALL it means.

It's not welfare, or a standing military, it's not public roads or edcuation it is the state of affaairs where GOVERMENT OWNS the means of production.

THAT and ONLY THAT is socialism.

Exactly. And if we operated under true "Socialism," when the banks discovered they had no money to back their securities and began to fail one after another, the government could have decided to simply nationalize them. Same with GM and Chrysler. Now, because of our capitalist society, the loans they received have been paid back to the treasury WITH INTEREST, GM is once again trading publicly, and Chrysler is slowly climbing out of its financial situation.

 

[MaggieMae]

Socialism-the BIGGEST plight/failure to this world, EVER.


I've got a riddle for ya batshitcrazy man... What caused the great depression of the 30's? Socialism or Capitalism? How about the current failure of the US and European Banking system with the "Troubled Assets"..Socialism or Capitalism?

Unless Capitalism is held in check with responsible socialism it is the MOST destructive force in the World!!!

Responsible socialism Gracie? How's that working out in Great Britain? France? Greece?

The collapse of those economies also occurred because of the global effect of the US recession and the housing market. In 2009, the IMF forecast that it would be the first occasion since the great depression that the world economy as a whole would contract.

Financial crisis of 2007?2010 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With a recession in the U.S. and the increased savings rate of U.S. consumers, declines in growth elsewhere have been dramatic. For the first quarter of 2009, the annualized rate of decline in GDP was 14.4% in Germany, 15.2% in Japan, 7.4% in the UK, 18% in Latvia,[162] 9.8% in the Euro area and 21.5% for Mexico.

Those European economies ALSO need revenue with which to survive. They didn't fail because they are "Socialist" governments. In normal cycles, especially the UK, people are more than happy to pay higher taxes for the services they get for free.

 

[MaggieMae]

Socialism-the BIGGEST plight/failure to this world, EVER.


I've got a riddle for ya batshitcrazy man... What caused the great depression of the 30's? Socialism or Capitalism? How about the current failure of the US and European Banking system with the "Troubled Assets"..Socialism or Capitalism?

Unless Capitalism is held in check with responsible socialism it is the MOST destructive force in the World!!!

Responsible socialism Gracie? How's that working out in Great Britain? France? Greece?

It is not as it is not here. The protective social shield has broken down due to IRRESPONSIBLE socialism. If there had been better rules and regulations preventing the insane banking and investment practices that allowed shuffling bad debt into good debt and further exasperated by shoddy rating the current crisis could have been avoided alltogether. BUT to blame the social structure for not capturing the criminals before they committed thier crimes is only a logic a NeoGOPer could conjer up. If people keep electing morons and thieves to represent them they have no right to whine about the results.

If one would attempt to follow the logic of those that blame the system and not the perpetrators of the scam as if it would be better to have NO regulation then obviously we should fire all police because there is crime.

The REAL problem is obviously someone is electing criminals to represent them. Who came up with the changes in the banking laws and regulations that alowed burying AND STILL allow burying troubled assets in amongst good debt? If any of you had even a shred of honesty in your purpose and your protest you would be isolating who did this in it's inception and who looked the other way as this putred scam was implemented. But that is not your purpose is it? You political hacks are not interested in who actually did this to us and the world because the trail might very well lead back to those YOU installed as Trojan Horses in what could just as easily be an honest social protection against such activity. If you evil fucks had your way the fire departments would not put out house fires unless the home owners previously paid a ransom...OPPS!! THAT is happening in America RIGHT NOW!!

Firefighters watch house burn for non-payment of fire protection fee. - FlyerTalk Forums

Have I told you how much I detest you EVIL NeoGOP fucks?

Do you think any of the logic like you expressed ever sinks in?

 

[MaggieMae]

From your rather generous and flawed definition of "socialism", it is apparent that you have had a "fine" public school education

As a matter of fact, I did

Our school system provides every child an opportunity to receive an education through high school. Many outstanding Americans never would have achieved greatness without our "socialist" education system

Can you imagine a system where the poorest kid in town gets to sit in class next to the child of the richest man in town? Your capitalist system would never allow that

You mean like Papa Obama's kids.... oh nevermind


By the way, you still have no idea of how socialism is defined
(Which might explain a lot)



Too funny


You assume a direct correlation between public education and success- bad assumption

If so then Papa Obama would have sent his kids to DC public schools like Carter did

"Your capitalist system" interesting choice of words

Sure, a system that treated education as a public good and gave out vouchers

Would be free market; a better use of resources and give people more choice- you believe in choice, do you not?

Why would he have subjected his children to public schools when by the time Obama took office he had already received death threats (which is why he and the family was assigned Secret Service protection before he took the oath)?

 

[JBeukema]

This silliness of these debates continues.

Imagine that we were debating chemisty and some people insisted that they got to redefine what the elements were.

That is EXACTLY what some of you insist is your right when discussing POLITICAL SCIENCE.

Socialism has a clearly defined meaning.

It's not subject to a vote, these words have meanings that you don't get to redefine to suit your POV.

Socialism exists when the government controls the means of production.

That is ALL it means.

It's not welfare, or a standing military, it's not public roads or edcuation it is the state of affaairs where GOVERMENT OWNS the means of production.

THAT and ONLY THAT is socialism.

Read Marx. Socialism is a stage of socioeconomic development marked by certain characteristics, primarily the imperfect application of collectivist principles. social Democracy is one form of socialism in which the means of production is owned privately and regulated by the State. Read Shachtman.

 

[Neotrotsky]

As a matter of fact, I did

Our school system provides every child an opportunity to receive an education through high school. Many outstanding Americans never would have achieved greatness without our "socialist" education system

Can you imagine a system where the poorest kid in town gets to sit in class next to the child of the richest man in town? Your capitalist system would never allow that

You mean like Papa Obama's kids.... oh nevermind


By the way, you still have no idea of how socialism is defined
(Which might explain a lot)



Too funny


You assume a direct correlation between public education and success- bad assumption

If so then Papa Obama would have sent his kids to DC public schools like Carter did

"Your capitalist system" interesting choice of words

Sure, a system that treated education as a public good and gave out vouchers

Would be free market; a better use of resources and give people more choice- you believe in choice, do you not?

Why would he have subjected his children to public schools when by the time Obama took office he had already received death threats (which is why he and the family was assigned Secret Service protection before he took the oath)?

Every President gets death threats- even Carter
He had Secret Service protection from the time they were nominated as well- standard


The real question would be why did stop vouchers for poor black children to go the same school as his kids?